jim diamond loses his white stripes royalties lawsuit

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(MUSIC-White Stripes Lawsuit)
A federal jury in Detroit has ruled the White Stripes don't have to share royalties with a producer who claims he helped shape their sound.
The eight-member jury debated about 20 minutes before ruling against Jim Diamond, who was listed as co-producer on the band's first album and sound mixer on the second.
Diamond had sued The White Stripes, saying he played a pivotal role in creating their signature sound.
The band denied that and said he was paid for his time during the recording process.

Fritz Wollner (Fritz), Friday, 16 June 2006 13:26 (nineteen years ago)

He should have know better!

(Yes! Yes.. I'm really pleasseddd I said that first)

mark grout (mark grout), Friday, 16 June 2006 13:30 (nineteen years ago)

Can you imagine all the lawsuits if the jury had voted in favor of this knucklehead?

Jim M (jmcgaw), Friday, 16 June 2006 13:36 (nineteen years ago)

detroit free press story:

Studio owner loses lawsuit against White Stripes
Jury rejects claim to share copyright
BY BRIAN MCCOLLUM
FREE PRESS POP MUSIC WRITER

June 16, 2006

A jury ruled in favor of the White Stripes Thursday in a case that focused on the genesis of the modern Detroit rock sound.

The eight-person panel deliberated just 20 minutes before returning its verdict in Detroit federal court, rejecting claims by studio owner Jim Diamond that he deserved part ownership of copyrights for the band’s first two albums.

In addition to back royalties Diamond could have received with a favorable ruling, the case involved credit for the White Stripes' earliest music -- a signature sound closely linked to the internationally celebrated revival of Detroit rock.

In closing arguments Thursday morning, attorneys for the band acknowledged Diamond's technical skills as a recording engineer but equated his role with the White Stripes to that of a carpenter following an original blueprint.

"The White Stripes" and "De Stijl," recorded at Diamond's Ghetto Recorders studio in 1999 and 2000, sold nearly 600,000 total copies in the wake of the White Stripes' international breakout in 2001.

With Jack and Meg White looking on, Los Angeles attorney Bert Deixler told jurors that Diamond's assertion of copyright was akin to the claim-jumping of unscrupulous Old West miners. He argued that Diamond's work in the studio -- microphone placement, reverberation effects, mixing -- did not meet the standards necessary to claim co-authorship.

"None of that constitutes originating an original work or causing it to come into being," Deixler said Thursday in court.

Diamond's attorneys cited liner notes from the 1999 album "The White Stripes," in which the band voluntarily gave Diamond a co-producer credit. Stephen Wasinger told jurors it was his client's most persuasive evidence, from a time period "when credit was more important than money."

"Mr. Diamond at that time, in that place, was equally talented," he said during his closing argument.

Anthony Deluca, a Grosse Pointe attorney representing Diamond, said late Thursday that the case had presented unique difficulties.
"How do you explain to the average juror what was going on in the underground Detroit music scene in 1999 -- especially in the context of a complicated copyright case?" Deluca said. "Jim Diamond gave those bands life. It's a tragedy for Detroit, and for underground music, that the White Stripes won't acknowledge Jim Diamond's contributions to the evolution of the band."

At issue were so-called mechanical rights to the sound recordings of "The White Stripes" and "De Stijl." Rights to the White Stripes' compositions -- credited to Jack and Meg White -- were not in dispute.

Before sending jurors to deliberate Thursday, federal judge Avern Cohn patiently walked them through the basics of the notoriously complex field of copyright law, an area in which he'd earlier acknowledged a lack of experience.

But jurors apparently had little trouble navigating the case, delivering their decision far more quickly than many onlookers expected. Jack and Meg White were still eating lunch nearby in downtown Detroit when word came that the jury was returning to the courtroom.

Fritz Wollner (Fritz), Friday, 16 June 2006 13:40 (nineteen years ago)

Right, that's the end of his career as a 'producer' certainly.

mark grout (mark grout), Friday, 16 June 2006 13:57 (nineteen years ago)

the funny thing is that first white stripes record is so obviously the product of someone trying hard to get a sound that's a bit different than the sound that diamond's ghetto recorders studio was known for - as "elephant" is a step away from the typical toe rag/headcoats sound. white's thing has always been to get bigger more streamlined sounds out of garage/vintage studio set-ups, kinda shel talmy style maybe? anyway, i remember when all the garage people i know were going nuts over diamond's "dirty" production back pre-stripes, but i never thought it was all that. i don't know the guy or anything, i'm sure he's a great guy. but if he did anything to shape the white stripes sound it was to create a template for them to transcend.

Fritz Wollner (Fritz), Friday, 16 June 2006 14:12 (nineteen years ago)

Right, that's the end of his career as a 'producer' certainly.

This actually came up in court:
Asked if he recalled telling Diamond he would ruin his reputation in the music industry if he brought the lawsuit, White testified: "I believe I said this was going to ruin his reputation, if he did something like this."
http://www.detroitnews.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=/20060614/ENT01/606140362/1003/METRO


Mike Dixn (Mike Dixon), Friday, 16 June 2006 15:05 (nineteen years ago)

Additionally, I submit this detail.
White wore a black pinstripe suit, black shirt, black tie and a black fedora with a tiny red feather in it.

Mike Dixn (Mike Dixon), Friday, 16 June 2006 15:06 (nineteen years ago)

Dirtbombs > White Stripes

autovac (autovac), Friday, 16 June 2006 15:36 (nineteen years ago)

I was hoping this thread would dissolve into meaningless "greater than" symbols.

Shadow of the Waxwing (noodle vague), Friday, 16 June 2006 15:40 (nineteen years ago)

soon record reviews will consist of nothing but band names and > and

Fritz Wollner (Fritz), Friday, 16 June 2006 15:41 (nineteen years ago)

The NME's already do.

Shadow of the Waxwing (noodle vague), Friday, 16 June 2006 15:42 (nineteen years ago)

"Right, that's the end of his career as a 'producer' certainly."

Heh. Well, except that he's known for the "Jim Diamond Sound." Reviewing albums around here, you can tell within the first song or two who's recorded there. Part of it's that he is known for launching people like the White Stripes (I think that he had an arguable case for getting a piece, and probably would have voted for him if I were on the jury, though it's been a long time since I listened to those albums), and part of it is that he's consistent.
It's a pain in the ass around here, honestly, because a lot of bands that aren't well served by him go there anyway because of the name. When reviewers see "Jim Diamond produced this" they start salivating, and it's as easy to make a name for a record around here with Diamond on it as it was to make a name with an Albini album for a while. But bands like the Avatars, who's record release is Saturday, really get jobbed by his mushy mix, his inability to get a powerful drum sound, and his tendency to mix everything at the same level. The Avatars are one of the hands down best live bands in Detroit right now, but their album just doesn't reflect that and in large part that's because Jim Diamond mixed it in his signature style rather than mixing it to play to the strengths of the band.

js (honestengine), Friday, 16 June 2006 17:13 (nineteen years ago)

What value does part-ownership in the copyright for an album actually carry? (Obv. songwriter credits are a separate issue/revenue stream.) Isn't it all determined by agreements saying who gets what percentage? The (C) and the (P) often appear in the record label's name - does that mean the label gets all the money, and then distributes a % to the artist according to what's agreed upon? If the artist holds the copyright, does that mean the $ is supposed to flow to the artist, who then pays a % to the label or distributor or whoever according to what's been worked out?

morris pavilion (samjeff), Friday, 16 June 2006 17:27 (nineteen years ago)

I was hoping this thread would dissolve into meaningless "greater than" symbols.

noodle vague > edam cheese on triscuits > the white stripes > jim diamond > tartar sauce > texas oil refineries

mummy wrapped in bacon (nickalicious), Friday, 16 June 2006 17:32 (nineteen years ago)

xpost

Yeah, I don't get it - was Diamond looking to be listed as a co-writer of each song on those records? If not, what was he looking for?

Rick Massimo (Rick Massimo), Friday, 16 June 2006 17:34 (nineteen years ago)

At issue were so-called mechanical rights to the sound recordings of "The White Stripes" and "De Stijl."

I guess this is the thing. I'd be interested to know how it works.

morris pavilion (samjeff), Friday, 16 June 2006 17:42 (nineteen years ago)

OK, I didn't see that before.

According to the American Mechanical Rights Organization Web site, it's:

"The right to reproduce and distribute to the public a copyrighted musical composition on phonorecords (which include audiotapes, compact discs and any other material object in which sounds are fixed, except those accompanying motion pictures and other audiovisual works.)"

Other Web sites say it's something the record company pays an artist.

So it sounds like he wanted a cut of the sales, even though he isn't claiming he helped write any of the songs. In other words, that his production sound on those records a) is unique, b) wasn't created in conjunction with/at the behest of the White Stripes, and c) is as important as the songwriting to the success of the White Stripes. Which strikes me as a tough sell.

I acknowledge I'm speculating here. Can anyone else school us?

Rick Massimo (Rick Massimo), Friday, 16 June 2006 18:13 (nineteen years ago)

MY PET MONSTER > HOLOCAUST

latebloomer (latebloomer), Friday, 16 June 2006 18:14 (nineteen years ago)

mechanicals are basically royalties paid to the artist by the record company for each work (cd, cassette, dvd etc) produced.

lauren (laurenp), Friday, 16 June 2006 18:19 (nineteen years ago)

As opposed to sold?

Rick Massimo (Rick Massimo), Friday, 16 June 2006 18:30 (nineteen years ago)

Is there a negotiated framework in the recording industry for arguing that, as an "artist" (however that's defined), you deserve royalties, even if you didn't sign a contract that grants you royalties? (For example, in Hollywood, writers and actors have certain rights - if they're members of the WGA and SAG - under those guilds' agreements with the studios.) It seems like this guy was arguing that he should have the rights that an "artist" would have, and not just a producer - I wonder where those rights are set out.

morris pavilion (samjeff), Friday, 16 June 2006 18:32 (nineteen years ago)

Mechanical royalties are for the performances as opposed to the compositions/songwriting royalty. As Morris suggested, his suit was that he was acting as a performer and helped shape, alter the recordings.

One big problem is that Jim never used contracts. It's not unusual for a producer to get 3 or so points per each album sold. That's probably all Jim was looking for. But the REAL problem is that Jim recorded bands for $35 an hour (which is super cheap) under the expectation that if they became successful that they'd remember who helped them out early on. But, no one did. I mean, certainly Jack could afford to kick Jim SOMETHING instead of letting this go to court, even though he won.

The lesson is don't rely on people's good nature and sense of right, and get everything down in a contract beforehand.

Aaron W (Aaron W), Friday, 16 June 2006 19:19 (nineteen years ago)

Aaron OTM. I scrolled down through this thinking up a reply almost exactly like his.

js (honestengine), Friday, 16 June 2006 21:38 (nineteen years ago)


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