American records that were viable '80s *New Pop*?

figures on the beach? (too late too, maybe...)

the "paisley underground" bands such as Three O'Clock were plugged into the underground/indie/college-rock scene in the 80s which as a rule stood in opposition to the New Pop movement aka haircut bands.

Prince
Billy Ocean
Teena Marie
Cyndi Lauper
The Bangles
John Waite

...and about 50 others.

And John Waite's "Missing You"?!? Oh man! The synth twinkles, chugging rhythm, the sound of that guitar -- not possible three years earlier.

And I definitely see Alfred's point about the 1984 Top 40. I think the Cars (certianly by the time of *Heartbeat City"*) figure heavily in the equation as well. Hell, "Boys of Summer" and BOTH "Jump"s (Van Halen and Pointer Sisters) probably do. But then again, as I confess above, I have no idea, really, how Simon or anyone else is defining "new pop." (I've never even read that *Like Punk Never Happened Book*! Though I do remember some old Simon Frith columns from those days.) So when I made my own nominations above, I was thinking specifically in terms of "Americans who wished they were British haircut bands." (And actually, I think Figures on a Beach *may* have gotten some pop airplay, in Detroit and Boston at least. Though, right, they never hit Top 40, which probably should matter.)

Anyway, here's one nobody will argue with: Til Tuesday!

Oh, I don't buy this. I'm talking about it as a musical genre, not just a cultural phenomenon or something. Besides, plenty of the singles released by the basic New Pop canon of artists were not hits. (Plus, they released albums, which had lots of songs which also were not hits.)

Still not sure how Billy Ocean or John Waite presented a new eighties vision of a New! Wave! aesthetic. It's not just about instrumental sounds and production. (If it was, you could say that anyone's modern sounding pop record from the mid-eighties was "New Pop.")

But it is! And I never implied "just" either.

I'd define New Pop roughly as "singles and albums influenced by the intersection of New Wave, the MTV visual aesthetic, and the uptick in record sales which started around the time Thriller became mega."

Pat Benatar circa "Love is a Battlefield-We Belong-Invincible" was definitely New Pop, but the Crimes of Passion isn't.

Tim, what doe these cryptic phrases mean? You're talking in circles. Ocean's and Waite's music totally sounded '80s. How are they any less a new '80s vision than Missing Persons? I don't get that. (So, are YOU saying only the kind of Anglophiles I've been nominating should qualify? If you argue that somebody like the Cars or Van Halen is too "guitar oriented"--not that you have, but I suppose the argument could be made; I forget, were the Psychedelic Furs, say, considered "new pop"?--where does that leave Three O'Clock?) (Unless they had no guitars. Not like I've heard them in a quarter century.)

Sure, but so did lite jazz albums from the mid-'80s.

Anyway, how about Laura Branigan? Or Irene Cara? Or Ray Parker Jr.?

I don't know about Ray Parker Jr. "The Other Woman" sounds like Emotional Rescue-era Stones, no? "Ghostbusters" is New Pop once removed since it lifts that Huey Lewis riff.

Tony Basil, "Mickey"
Moon Unit Zappa featuing Frank, "Valley Girl"

I'm guessing lots of stuff from L.A. was VERY new pop, actually.

And come to think of it, what about the Go-Gos? (More so as they moved along.) (And the Motels, maybe? Or were they too ballad heavy?)

Again, it's not just about sound - lite jazz albums also sounded '80s - it's about the whole package. I said they had more of a modernist aesthetic overall. More futuristic, perhaps.

>"Karma Chameleon" took its main hook from "Handy Man" by James Taylor. And sure, it was great. But in what way does it sound more new wave than "Missing You"?<

Well, I suppose the Babys were sort of considered new wave? But New Pop is, I think, about the new '80s vision of new wave which, yes, came mostly from the English groups.

"i guess he really just wants examples of american bands that sounded like kajagoogoo."

No, don't be an ass.

tim these guys are fuckin witch ya. john waite was new wave by association, while culture club defined the genre's MTV phase..

Minus the popularity, though, I guess.

Re: The Records. They weren't American, were they?

cause ppl use the term now to describe 80s "new pop" but I remember it being used interchangeably w/punk to describe bands like Talking Heads and Pere Ubu. And then, as Scott says, came the deluge: the Cars, power pop. and Pulsallama hahaha. they were like the cool kids in school circa 1982 in the east village (and I was total nerd)

Again, it's not just about sound - lite jazz albums also sounded '80s - it's about the whole package. I said they had more of a modernist aesthetic overall. More futuristic, perhaps

I have no idea how Culture Club, or any of the bands we've mentioned, fit this description. And my initial posts defined what 'the whole package' was anyway.

otm. probably one of the only songs from my youth that i distinctly remember hearing for the very first time.

Good choice! With 1985's Rhythm & Romance she made the leap (check out her dyed bangs on the cover).

No, Simon DOES take this approach. It was the counter-revolution, so to speak.

(As a sidenote I just flipped thru Chris Heath's 1990 Pet Shop bio. Neil Tennant says that their American handlers referred to them as "this year's Tears for Fears.")

i'm not welcoming it. i like calling things new wave. i'm a waver.

xp
hahaha there's a bit somewhere in that book where Neil pisses on Big Country from a great height

haha, actually, he pisses on U2! And he really loses his temper. I'll find the quote.

The Associates, Altered IMages, Simple Minds, Eurythmics, Thompson Twins, Wham!, Culture Club, ABC, the Human League, Scritti Politti.

certainly don't make me think of echo and u2.

and to college radio. i've seen interviews with bono where he gives big props to the college stations. and college radio, interestingly or not, stayed pretty rock-oriented through this whole era. some of the synth bands got airplay (especially people like heaven 17, who didn't have u.s. hits), but it was much more guitar bands like echo, teardrop, r.e.m., etc. so if you're gonna invent a category of american new pop, one place to start might be stuff that got more commerical airplay than college airplay.

xpost: i really still think of the 3 o'clock as being much more influenced by west coast and u.k. '60s pop than anything else.

and synth-pop! i forgot one.

certainly don't make me think of echo and u2.<

But there were other aesthetics, too - were Madness New Pop or Siouxsie?

Gypsy, check out a song like "Hand in Hand" on Arrive Without Travelling. (And of course after that they wanted Ian Broudie to produce them and then they made a record for Paisley Park.)

see, this is where i lucked out. my hometown station was in LOVE with synth-pop. for years. and dance pop music (din da da, dominatrix,madonna, etc). i was very fortunate. i heard tons of stuff.

That's precisely what Greil Marcus said in one of the ArtForum essays collected in In the Fascist Bedroom. He deconstructs the semiotics of a Big Country video from '86 or '86 -- a bit unfair, actually, since they were well past their peak (insofar as Big Country had one).

http://www.geocities.com/xci_realitybreak/wxci/music.html

a lot of that stuff i heard for the first time on that station as it came out.

american college radio at its finest!

You have if you saw Weird Science: My ceation, is it real?

>ebn ozn or kissing the pink or tin tin <

Scott, what country were these bands from? I was almost thinking of nominating Kissing the Pink for American newpopitude status upthread, but then I realized I have no idea. What I do know is they were supposed to be a big influence on early Chicago house music -- outside of Telex, they might be the only technopoppers on that great 12-LP *History of the House Sound* vinyl box set, which matters!

And of course, I associate Ebn Ozn with Freez: vowel-rock rules!

Finally, "Black Flag Kills Ants on Contact" (a slogan, not a song) of course totally belongs alongside that X song in the Revolutionary War against Limey nancy-boy noble savage drum drum drum pantheon.

"What [rock critics} basically want is for it to be like 1969 again. It 's this thing where British – or in U2's case, Irish – groups discover the roots of American music. U2 have discovered this and they're just doing pastiches [his voice rises] and it's reviewed as a serious thing because DYLAN PLAYS ORGAN on some song and B.B. King plays on some throwaway pop song `When Love Comes to Town' that could have been written by Andrew Lloyd Webber. It could be in Starlight Express if you ask me.

...We hate everything that they are and stand for. We hate it because it's totally stultifying, it says nothing, it is big and pompous and ugly. We hate it for exactly the same reasons Johnny Rotten said he hated dinosaur groups in 1976. To me U2 are a dinosaur group. They're saying nothing but they're pretending to be something. I think they're FAKE."

Geir would apparently argue for Grace Jones, and Kid Creole & the Coconuts:

What was the best New Pop album (80-85)?

What a great thread. I learned a lot.

"I Touch Roses" by Book of Love sounds like American New Pop to me.

Book of Love are the shit!!

The Romantics: Talking In Your Sleep
The Brains: Money Changes Everything
Ebn-Ozn: AEIOU Sometimes Y

The Nails: 88 Lines About 44 Women

I mentioned that one above!

John Eddie, "Jungle Boy" (= Springsteen doing Antmusic)

(actually John Cafferty doing Antmusic, more like)

Oops..I searched for "Nails" but not every answer was loaded on the page.

A good one:

The Monroes: What Do All The People Know?

that's a beautiful song!

Yeah, that one has aged real well.

Industry were Americans, weren't they? "State Of The Nation" is a great song!

Lady Gaga.

Jesus, we talked a lot in this thread.

this was great, just discovered it tks to the critic's darling thread

I'm going back there again, this is a good list, Information Society aren't bad at all, I remember not being bowled over by them back in the day. But look at their cool outfits.

http://images.artistdirect.com/Images/Sources/AMGPORTRAITS/music/portrait200/drp000/p015/p01568vsy7e.jpg