Timberlake excerpt from NY Times ...

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These have an absurdity to them that deserve their own thread:

And then, on the other end of the spectrum, there’s Justin Timberlake, who has evolved from Mouseketeer to boy-bander to pop star. (Only Dr. Moreau knows what comes next.) Last week, three and a half years after the release of his solo debut album, “Justified,” Mr. Timberlake returned with a new single, “SexyBack” (Jive). And while Mr. Ross says he is outraged by all the “drooling” his band inspires, Mr. Timberlake seems eager to inspire a little more. He is that rarest of creatures: a male pop star who is willing to sing about being sexy.

That doesn’t mean, of course, that male pop stars are obliged to avoid the subject. From Usher (who became the new Justin Timberlake in 2004, a year and a half after Mr. Timberlake became the new Usher) to Chris Brown, we have plenty of male heartthrobs who inspire female — and, whether they know it or not, male — screams with every falsetto note and piston-smooth dance move.

― O'Connor (OConnorScribe), Thursday, 13 July 2006 13:13 (twenty years ago)

He is that rarest of creatures: a male pop star who is willing to sing about being sexy.

Wow, the rarity. *listens to Star Time*

― Ned Raggett (Ned), Thursday, 13 July 2006 13:16 (twenty years ago)

Usher is the new Timberlake is the new Usher ... just retarded.

― O'Connor (OConnorScribe), Thursday, 13 July 2006 13:23 (twenty years ago)

Wait, he sings about being sexy? He must be gay. Or Prince.

― js (honestengine), Thursday, 13 July 2006 13:48 (twenty years ago)

Watch this thread hit 347 posts by noon.

― Alfred, Lord Sotosyn (Alfred Soto), Thursday, 13 July 2006 13:50 (twenty years ago)

yeah, i wonder how much that writer got paid to go in circles

― lf (lfam), Thursday, 13 July 2006 13:55 (twenty years ago)

And while Mr. Ross says he is outraged by...
--

mr ross? who's that then?

― pisces (piscesx), Thursday, 13 July 2006 14:37 (twenty years ago)

Bob Ross, obviously

― bernard snow (sixteen sergeants), Thursday, 13 July 2006 14:39 (twenty years ago)

― SQUARECOATS (plsmith), Thursday, 13 July 2006 14:43 (twenty years ago)

we have plenty of male heartthrobs who inspire female ... screams with every falsetto note and piston-smooth dance move.

― NoTimeBeforeTime (Barry Bruner), Thursday, 13 July 2006 14:46 (twenty years ago)

Ross is the dude from Panic! At the Disco who bitched about how his looks obscure his artistic credibility.

― O'Connor (OConnorScribe), Thursday, 13 July 2006 14:54 (twenty years ago)

We can solve that problem by cutting off his head.

― Ned Raggett (Ned), Thursday, 13 July 2006 14:55 (twenty years ago)

yeah, pretty much, chainsaw city, baby!

― O'Connor (OConnorScribe), Thursday, 13 July 2006 14:56 (twenty years ago)

lol

― lf (lfam), Thursday, 13 July 2006 14:58 (twenty years ago)

Hahaha "I tried to ugly myself up but goddamn if I didn't end up prettier"

― Eppy (Eppy), Thursday, 13 July 2006 15:00 (twenty years ago)

I would like to read "A case against Justin Timberlake by Ned Ragget (all music)".

― edward o (edwardo), Thursday, 13 July 2006 15:03 (twenty years ago)

nobody badmouths Kalefa. he conquered rockism. me smash!

― le hague (le hague), Thursday, 13 July 2006 15:05 (twenty years ago)

Ross there could benefit from the lesson learned in Sparks's "Funny Face":

I looked a lot like a Vogue Magazine
Perfect and smooth, they all called me a dream
Flawless and loveless, no intimacy
I only lived to be seen
Not to be touched, too clean

Funny Face, I want a Funny Face
Funny Face, I want a Funny Face
Billions of dollars are spent on the face
Covering, smoothing, and changing the shape
Everyone wanted a face just like mine
Nobody wanted me
Only to look like me

I'm ungrateful but I don't care
I hear comments from everywhere
Probably nothing behind the face
The face, the face

That was the day that I jumped off the bridge
Trying to end it all, I barely lived
Doctor Lamaar said "your face is a mess"
All of the rest you can guess

I got my one request
(He got his one request)
And I am happy, yes
(And he is happy, yes)
I got my one request
(He got his Funny Face)
And I am happy, yes
And I am happy, happy, happy, happy, happy

― Ned Raggett (Ned), Thursday, 13 July 2006 15:07 (twenty years ago)

Normally, I don't badmouth K ... his work is usually on point and provocative and well-written. This is a spectacular miss, though ... not only poorly written but kind of ridiculous -- as Ned points out, it's not like male sexuality is a foreign concept in the work of male popular musicians.

― O'Connor (OConnorScribe), Thursday, 13 July 2006 15:08 (twenty years ago)

Mr. Raggett is that rarest of creatures: a male rockcrit who is willing to write about being sexy.

― Alfred, Lord Sotosyn (Alfred Soto), Thursday, 13 July 2006 15:20 (twenty years ago)

there's nothing wrong with the excerpt (though how about posting the whole article). the usher-is-nu-justin-who-was-nu-usher is completely true. and you'd have to be wilfully dense to extrapolate from the sentence about male pop stars willing to be sexy that male sexuality is completely alien to male pop stars: it's fairly obviously about jt's willingness to be seen as sex object when the current landscape of chart pop - esp in hip hop dominated america - is all about hyper-masculinity and the male gaze.

― The Lex (The Lex), Thursday, 13 July 2006 15:21 (twenty years ago)

Usher's good, but Jut's for the chi'dren.

― billstevejim (billstevejim), Thursday, 13 July 2006 15:23 (twenty years ago)

It might be worth pointing out that Usher's albums before and after Justified were more successful than JT's. Usher was Usher is Usher and Justin tried to be him for a year, to less commercial success.

― Zwan (miccio), Thursday, 13 July 2006 15:24 (twenty years ago)

Yeah, but he's not saying "male sexuality" is a foreign concept. He's saying that it's fairly rare for a male pop star to present himself as a sexual object to the audience--note, sexual object rather than sexual being.

― max (maxreax), Thursday, 13 July 2006 15:24 (twenty years ago)

Yeah, he's not saying "male sexuality" is a foreign concept. He's saying that it's fairly rare for a male pop star to present himself as a sexual object to the audience--note, sexual object rather than sexual being.

― max (maxreax), Thursday, 13 July 2006 15:25 (twenty years ago)

oops.

― max (maxreax), Thursday, 13 July 2006 15:25 (twenty years ago)

then he lists several of the many people who actually do.

― Zwan (miccio), Thursday, 13 July 2006 15:26 (twenty years ago)

gee, Usher had a good 2002, and then Justin had a good 2003, and then Usher had a good 2004. Wow, I'm blown away ... just looks silly, that's all. No one is disputing the accuaracy.

By male sexuality, I was referring to that WILLINGNESS to be sexy. That ain't anything new, and it doesn't seem all that rare nowadays.

― O'Connor (OConnorScribe), Thursday, 13 July 2006 15:27 (twenty years ago)

Posted those two grafs because that's all you really need ... but hey, in the issue of fairness, here you go:

http://www.nytimes.com/2006/07/13/arts/music/13sann.html

― O'Connor (OConnorScribe), Thursday, 13 July 2006 15:29 (twenty years ago)

x-post -- Lex and Max -- in a word, no. (We can argue motivation and specific intention until the cows come home but anyone thinking that most male singers in The Realm o' Mass Culture -- pop, hip-hop, country, whatever -- aren't trying to present themselves as some kind of sweet meat for general delectation are nuts.)

then he lists several of the many people who actually do.

Friggin' precisely! "He's unique! And here's how he's not all that unique at all! Forget anything I said!"

― Ned Raggett (Ned), Thursday, 13 July 2006 15:29 (twenty years ago)

see, Kenny Chesney sings about how his tractor is sexy, not himself.

― Zwan (miccio), Thursday, 13 July 2006 15:30 (twenty years ago)

http://www.metroactive.com/papers/metro/12.12.96/gifs/morris-day-9650.jpg

― M@tt He1geson, Rendolent Ding-Dong (Matt Helgeson), Thursday, 13 July 2006 15:31 (twenty years ago)

I don't think Usher or Chris Brown particularly sing about themselves being sexy (although I'm not a Chris Brown expert by any means). At least not in the way that JT does. They do sing about sex, obv., and having sex, and are obviously willing to be sexy--but not necessarily to sing about it.

FWIW, I don't necessarily agree w/ KS here, but I think you guys are giving him way too hard a time.

― max (maxreax), Thursday, 13 July 2006 15:33 (twenty years ago)

Yes, but keep in mind, dears, that no one who reads the New York Times art page has sex.

― Alfred, Lord Sotosyn (Alfred Soto), Thursday, 13 July 2006 15:35 (twenty years ago)

actually, Chesney sings about how SHE thinks that tractor is sexy. he's just a humble dude, man.

― O'Connor (OConnorScribe), Thursday, 13 July 2006 15:36 (twenty years ago)

I never start threads like this unless ... sorry K, but it just screamed for a spin in the ILM washer.

― O'Connor (OConnorScribe), Thursday, 13 July 2006 15:38 (twenty years ago)

I never start threads like this ... sorry K, but it just screamed for a spin in the ILM washer.

― O'Connor (OConnorScribe), Thursday, 13 July 2006 15:38 (twenty years ago)

well, they have sex, alfred, but perhaps they're too busy reading to have sex that's any good. :-)

― O'Connor (OConnorScribe), Thursday, 13 July 2006 15:38 (twenty years ago)

i think chris brown sings about being sexy - total twink r&b, and GREAT too. usher certainly presents himself as a sex object, though not necessarily lyrically. beyond that? i can't think of many others! and there's certainly no current trend in pop music for the men to do this, as opposed to the 90s boy band boom.

o'connor your sarkiness is kind of grating. a sarcastic "wow" explains to no one what you actually find so objectionable about that one line that you needed to start a whole new thread on it?

― The Lex (The Lex), Thursday, 13 July 2006 15:40 (twenty years ago)

She likes it my way, my way, my way
You can't satisfy her needs
She keeps runnin' back to see me do it
My way, my way
What i say goes, and i'm in control

That's the chorus to the title track of Usher's first album. Aside from the phrase "I'm bringing sexy back," how exactly does Justin sing about himself being sexy in a way Usher (or hell, any of the other dozens of singers who talk about their sexual attractiveness) doesn't?

― Zwan (miccio), Thursday, 13 July 2006 15:40 (twenty years ago)

Because he is Justin and therefore a flawless figure of projection of whatever we desire. (My projecting skills regarding him, alas, seem to be lacking.)

― Ned Raggett (Ned), Thursday, 13 July 2006 15:41 (twenty years ago)

Maybe there's more ways of being sexy to guys who write "SexyBack" as one word than are dreamt of in our philosophies.

― Alfred, Lord Sotosyn (Alfred Soto), Thursday, 13 July 2006 15:43 (twenty years ago)

If anything, isn't Justin indulging in boring meta, making it easy for critics to say "Justin's bringing sexy back!" while ignoring the fact that sexy never really left? The only real difference I can see between Justin and other R&B singers is that he's gawkier, making his claims at sexual dominance less threatening and arguably cuter.

― Zwan (miccio), Thursday, 13 July 2006 15:43 (twenty years ago)

you could replace the word "gawky" with "white," too

― Zwan (miccio), Thursday, 13 July 2006 15:44 (twenty years ago)

Alex, I did say upthread that there's just a combination of bad writing and off-base contextualizing ... strains for a way of beginning the analysis of the single that just doesn't work.

I started the thread, really, because 1. I'm suprised this crap is coming from K, otherwise one of my fave critics and 2. trivializes Justin so bizarrely. If anything, it also helps to discuss folks like Justin, who I find severely underrated myself.

― O'Connor (OConnorScribe), Thursday, 13 July 2006 15:45 (twenty years ago)

If anything, isn't Justin indulging in boring meta, making it easy for critics to say "Justin's bringing sexy back!" while ignoring the fact that sexy never really left?

Hey, did you hear that rock is back? It must be true because of the Strokes!

who I find severely underrated myself

Dare I even ask.

― Ned Raggett (Ned), Thursday, 13 July 2006 15:46 (twenty years ago)

no man crush, Ned ... I just think Justin's writes really good white-boy R&B songs, that's all.

― O'Connor (OConnorScribe), Thursday, 13 July 2006 15:47 (twenty years ago)

That's fair enough but I was thinking you were going to say something, er, unexpected. Like how he was the flashpoint between modern US diplomacy and the relentless pull of globalization.

― Ned Raggett (Ned), Thursday, 13 July 2006 15:50 (twenty years ago)

Maybe he is ...

... if anything, Justin seems fueled by megalomania, which gives his music a peculiarly nasty, exhilarating funk. Reminds me of Michael at his best in that regard. Not saying Justin is better than Michael, but that's at least a vibe I get from listening to Justin.

― O'Connor (OConnorScribe), Thursday, 13 July 2006 15:54 (twenty years ago)

The only real difference I can see between Justin and other R&B singers is that he's gawkier, making his claims at sexual dominance less threatening and arguably cuter.

Yup. Race is the bugaboo in the article that won't raise its head. If the lead singer of PATD had been black his squeamishness might seem more revolutionary to the Times' audience. The article's mild astonishment that White Men Like Being Beautiful would seem to indicate that he's never listened to, say, Bowie.

― Alfred, Lord Sotosyn (Alfred Soto), Thursday, 13 July 2006 15:55 (twenty years ago)

oh, wait, Bowie in the '70s WAS GAY and therefore had more sex than straight people, so never mind.

― Alfred, Lord Sotosyn (Alfred Soto), Thursday, 13 July 2006 16:00 (twenty years ago)

Chris Brown: "I can definitely show you things that will have you saying I can't be 16." That line always stuck out as a tad inappropriate. But very sexy.

But I have to say there has been a lack of sexy male popstars lately - remember the heydays of ricky and enrique? their equivalents today would probably be brandon flowers.

― danzig (danzig), Thursday, 13 July 2006 16:00 (twenty years ago)

http://www.80sretromusic.com/biography/J/tomjones.jpg

― Nigel (Nigel), Thursday, 13 July 2006 16:01 (twenty years ago)

good points on race here that didn't strike me on initial read. Ugliness never has seemed to be a virtue in black popular music, has it? Much more of a visual foundation for it, as even the scary looking dudes seem to always possess a charming flamboyance (EWF, P-Funk, Barry White and the such).

Excluding hip-hop there, of course.

― O'Connor (OConnorScribe), Thursday, 13 July 2006 16:01 (twenty years ago)

I was waiting for someone to post a Tom Jones photo, btw. :-)

― O'Connor (OConnorScribe), Thursday, 13 July 2006 16:01 (twenty years ago)

It seems to me that the only problem you guys actually have with the piece is the word "rarest."

― max (maxreax), Thursday, 13 July 2006 16:02 (twenty years ago)

Justin invented being sexy.
You just jealous.

― M@tt He1geson, Rendolent Ding-Dong (Matt Helgeson), Thursday, 13 July 2006 16:03 (twenty years ago)

if only the world measured my own pop-star sexuality from the neck up ... she thinks my banter is sexy. :-)

― O'Connor (OConnorScribe), Thursday, 13 July 2006 16:07 (twenty years ago)

Could we somehow bring xgau in here?

― Eppy (Eppy), Thursday, 13 July 2006 16:07 (twenty years ago)

Justin invented being sexy.
You just jealous.

Is that the chorus of his new single?

― Alfred, Lord Sotosyn (Alfred Soto), Thursday, 13 July 2006 16:10 (twenty years ago)

That's the chorus to the title track of Usher's first album

second album, actually. < / pedantry >

― Alex in Baltimore (Alex in Baltimore), Thursday, 13 July 2006 16:29 (twenty years ago)

you BETTER close that html!

― Zwan (miccio), Thursday, 13 July 2006 16:33 (twenty years ago)

http://ec1.images-amazon.com/images/P/B000002I3M.01._SS500_SCLZZZZZZZ_V1115651667_.jpg

― gear (gear), Thursday, 13 July 2006 18:17 (twenty years ago)

Dammit Alex, I wanted to pedantically correct Anthony! *pout*

― Jesus Dan (Dan Perry), Thursday, 13 July 2006 18:21 (twenty years ago)

Maybe the fact that Justin's singing this to Timbaland might make SexyBack novel. Or is there a history of pop stars flirting with their producers on tape?

― natedey (ndeyoung), Thursday, 13 July 2006 19:56 (twenty years ago)

ihttp://www.kingscourtgalleries.co.uk/newimages/PRINTSFOLDER/Military/Drolleries/Drolleries_11.jpg

― Amateur(ist) (Amateur(ist)), Thursday, 13 July 2006 20:06 (twenty years ago)

yeah, Dan, but would you have also counted a bunch of random import-only live CDs among Usher's albums?

― Alex in Baltimore (Alex in Baltimore), Thursday, 13 July 2006 20:19 (twenty years ago)

RIGHT SAID FRED

― taco sexy! (mike h.), Thursday, 13 July 2006 20:39 (twenty years ago)

How many are there, Alex?

― Jesus Dan (Dan Perry), Thursday, 13 July 2006 20:45 (twenty years ago)

Urrrrsherrr -- Live in Moscow

― Ned Raggett (Ned), Thursday, 13 July 2006 20:47 (twenty years ago)

http://www.elique.com/assets/images/front/lil-john.jpg

DA!!!!!!!!!!

― Jesus Dan (Dan Perry), Thursday, 13 July 2006 20:48 (twenty years ago)

I'm reviving this because I finally heard the song and I think it's fucking brilliant.

― Jesus Dan (Dan Perry), Tuesday, 18 July 2006 11:21 (twenty years ago)

He is that rarest of creatures: a male pop star who is willing to sing about being sexy.

I figured he was being totally ironic here. Or maybe half-ironic. But still, a little. Maybe the heat's getting to me.

― Nathalie (stevie nixed), Tuesday, 18 July 2006 12:06 (twenty years ago)

justin is so. fucking. fit.

― The Lex (The Lex), Tuesday, 18 July 2006 12:24 (twenty years ago)

Yeah, what's he gonna do? Dude is pretty buff.

― O'Connor (OConnorScribe), Tuesday, 18 July 2006 13:26 (twenty years ago)

'fit' =/ 'fit'

― deej.. (deej..), Tuesday, 18 July 2006 13:38 (twenty years ago)

Oddly enough, Timbaland has slightly better chemistry with Mr. Timberlake. “Look at those hips,” Timbaland raps. Also: “You make me smile,” “Come here, child” and “Get your sexy on.” After each phrase, Mr. Timberlake croons back his flirty (and somewhat cryptic) response: “Go ’head, be gone with it.” With that, the “dirty babe” first introduced in the second stanza officially becomes a third wheel.

― jhoshea (scoopsnoodle), Tuesday, 18 July 2006 14:24 (twenty years ago)

but what of the gayness?

― jhoshea (scoopsnoodle), Tuesday, 18 July 2006 14:25 (twenty years ago)

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