Post-Rock or Jazz Rock

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Which of these terms do you prefer?
"Post-Rock" is a term coined in 1994 by Simon Reynolds (this guy seems to thing everything is Post something)...I got in a heated discussion over this term on another board, and I'd like to hear what folks here to say about it...

― Paul Edward Wagemann (PaulEdwardWagemann), Friday, 14 July 2006 03:50 (eighteen years ago)

There is "post rock" that has nothing to do with jazz.

― pleased to mitya (mitya), Friday, 14 July 2006 03:55 (eighteen years ago)

Or a third choice would be ambient rock:

http://www.last.fm/tag/ambient%20rock

― Paul Edward Wagemann (PaulEdwardWagemann), Friday, 14 July 2006 03:55 (eighteen years ago)

Um, by which I mean I prefer the term "post rock", if we really have to have labels like this.

"Ambient rock" is possibly one of the worst genre labels I've ever heard of.

― pleased to mitya (mitya), Friday, 14 July 2006 03:57 (eighteen years ago)

Its always seemed to me that "post-rock" is less of a legitimate genre and more of some sort of receptacle for bands that categorically-obsessed establishments like Pitchfork can't seem to accurately classify.

It's beyond me how Tortoise, Mogwai, and A Silver Mt. Zion could all be put in the same category.

― Steve Dolnack (drowned in milk), Friday, 14 July 2006 05:35 (eighteen years ago)

http://www.cybernaut.org.uk/SR/

Space rock seems kind of similar as well...

― Paul Edward Wagemann (PaulEdwardWagemann), Friday, 14 July 2006 16:30 (eighteen years ago)

Paul, I think you have problems with the terms because you don't really know the music they're discussing! I'll say the same thing I said on the post-punk thread, but in this case, I was there so it's even clearer in my mind. When Simon came up with the term post-rock there was absolutely a defining movement which was primarily indie-rock artists drawing from experimental music, noise, jazz, etc. And while they didn't all sound alike, there were enough similarities in the scenes, the labels, the aesthethics, enough to differentiate them from what came before.

Bark Psychosis, Gastr Del Sol, Labradford, Tortoise, Seefeel, Main, etc etc.

There's nothing Jazzy about Labradford, but just like in post-punk, where some bands coming out of punk drew on jazz, some on disco, some on minimalist, some on electronics, Tortoise, Stereolab and Labradford didn't have to sound the same or have identical influences (though there was crossover) for Post-Rock to be a useful term at the time.

― Dan Selzer (Dan Selzer), Friday, 14 July 2006 16:53 (eighteen years ago)

Does Post-Rock imply Rock is dead, or at least over with?
I hear a lot of good rock still being made.
Also, is using guitars to make music that isnt stereotypical Rock really so new? If the definition of Post Rock is using Rock instruments to make non-Rock songs, then Jazz and country have been doing that since the 50s...

― Paul Edward Wagemann (PaulEdwardWagemann), Saturday, 15 July 2006 00:06 (eighteen years ago)

First of all the term "post-rock" seems incredibly pretentious. I'd advise against using it at all costs. I've had many debates with my friends about the various connotations of the "post-rock" label; I don't think it's implying rock is dead, but rather, as you said, using "rock" instruments to make "non-rock" music. Which is equally stupid, as you also pointed out. And really doesn't even make much sense, because stuff like Slint is definitely rock.

― less-than three's Christiane F. (drowned in milk), Saturday, 15 July 2006 00:25 (eighteen years ago)

why try so hard? Just don't use the terms!

― Dan Selzer (Dan Selzer), Saturday, 15 July 2006 03:42 (eighteen years ago)

Jazz-rock is already the less favored term for jazz fusion also, so it's pretty much out.

― Abbadavid Berman (Hurting), Saturday, 15 July 2006 04:51 (eighteen years ago)

Also, I think it's fair to say that most post-rock is not really "rock" in the sense of music that has all that much to do with the idea of capital Rock And Roll.

― Abbadavid Berman (Hurting), Saturday, 15 July 2006 04:53 (eighteen years ago)

Post-rock, as far as I understand, is taken to mean music that uses rock instrumentation to make music that doesn't exhibit the characteristics of rock music. While I guess it's technically true that most of the bands that fall under the category aren't rock, what does it mean to be rock if not the instruments? You could say absence of chorus/verse, time signatures other than 4/4 etc, but that would include tons and tons of music under post rock that doesn't really belong there. It's a really stupid term.

While most fusion sucks, Jazz-rock is a pretty good term for genre stretching bands like jazz-leaning Mahavishnu Orchestra and rock-leaning Can. Although I almost never hear people say "jazz rock" in favor of "fusion."

All in all, I don't really like either term. They both define genres that are so vastly diverse that trying to group their contents together is dumb and worthless. But of the two, post rock is probably the worst. When someone says a band fits that bill, who knows what you're gonna get?

― chris s (ertayone), Saturday, 15 July 2006 06:03 (eighteen years ago)

So is there ANYONE who thinks Post-Rock is a legit term?
Or it is just meaningless mumbo jumbo?

― Paul Edward Wagemann (PaulEdwardWagemann), Saturday, 15 July 2006 13:52 (eighteen years ago)

chris, you're trying too hard. Paul, it's a legit term. It was very convenient at the time. It's not really relevant now. When certain aspects of the indie scenes all started going off in this other direction at once, it made sense to use a term to differentiate, that's all. Now that we have the internet and everybody in the world has every record by every artist, it doesn't matter any more.

― Dan Selzer (Dan Selzer), Saturday, 15 July 2006 14:04 (eighteen years ago)

amen

― cutty (mcutt), Monday, 17 July 2006 00:24 (eighteen years ago)

Paul, you may find this interesting / useful: http://www.last.fm/user/piqquam/journal/2006/05/26/143206/

― pleased to mitya (mitya), Monday, 17 July 2006 02:43 (eighteen years ago)

two months pass...

http://www.google.com/search?hl=en&q=rockism&btnG=Google+Search

― Warren Cowley (dubble-u-c), Sunday, 24 September 2006 03:25 (eighteen years ago)

oh god, don't encourage him.

― sleeve version 2.0 (sleeve testing), Sunday, 24 September 2006 03:30 (eighteen years ago)

Results 1 - 10
Did you mean: racism

― a name means a lot just by itself (lfam), Sunday, 24 September 2006 03:48 (eighteen years ago)

hahaha

― gekoppel (Gekoppel), Sunday, 24 September 2006 14:50 (eighteen years ago)

Use of the "post-" prefix for anything = massive dud.

― Joe (Joe), Sunday, 24 September 2006 15:54 (eighteen years ago)

Is it just me or did Wagemann seem slightly more lucid when he first showed up?

― Marmot (marmotwolof), Sunday, 24 September 2006 17:08 (eighteen years ago)

Use of the "post-" prefix for anything = massive dud.

yeah, you're right. we all take it back. sorry.

― Dan Selzer (Dan Selzer), Sunday, 24 September 2006 17:47 (eighteen years ago)

It might not be a great or super accurate term, but it tends to place a bunch of bands under a single umbrella that seem to fit together well. It is a term of convenience that puts a name to a group of bands that have similar characteristics. I don't really know why it matters if the term is good or not; the fact that it stuck, and that we know what people mean when they use it, is good enough for me.

― Matt Olken (Moodles), Sunday, 24 September 2006 18:05 (eighteen years ago)

dan selzer otm. several times.

the overwhelming influence of craptronica has maybe made people less aware of just how odd tortoise, labradford, et. al sounded back in the day. also, rock may not be dead, but the fact that several of these bands grew out of shrapnel from the slint explosion makes post-rock a rather accurate term.

― arjun (arjun), Sunday, 24 September 2006 21:42 (eighteen years ago)

I agree with nearly half of everything that has been said on this thread. The ohter half I either disagree with, or have not made up my mind about yet.

― Paul Edward Wagemann (PaulEdwardWagemann), Monday, 25 September 2006 15:16 (eighteen years ago)

seventeen years pass...

It’s Jazz Rock

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=51sFJrero64

― brimstead, Friday, 16 August 2024 02:23 (ten months ago)

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