Soft rock is the new punk!

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It's strange, that there's no thread for this stupid statement of The Times back in January in connection with The Feeling. And no mistake that this was bullshit, but as I know, there are no more soft-rock bands on the Top 40 bar Feeling and Orson.
Are there any? One of the hits of The Kooks was like a british Maroon 5 (perhaps 'Naive'? It was awful), but I can't say more soft-rock revivalists. (Phoenix were commercially unsuccessful.) So?

― zeus (zeus), Thursday, 24 August 2006 14:25 (nineteen years ago)

link to times article?

― Bashment Jakes (Enrique), Thursday, 24 August 2006 14:28 (nineteen years ago)

If by that they mean 'musical movement which itself is overwhelmingly awful but might somehow spark a healthy re-evaluation of where popular music is going', then perhaps. Although in the case of punk, the re-evaluation was a progression from and out of the starting genre, whereas in soft-rock's case the re-evaluation will hopefully be a violent and revulsed reaction against it.

― Scourage (Haberdager), Thursday, 24 August 2006 14:31 (nineteen years ago)

http://entertainment.timesonline.co.uk/article/0,,14932-2011002,00.html

― zeus (zeus), Thursday, 24 August 2006 14:32 (nineteen years ago)

i am feeling a bit sinusy but still, u, daft punk's 'discovery' could be said to have done what louis is suggesting. but these cunts, not so much.

― Bashment Jakes (Enrique), Thursday, 24 August 2006 14:34 (nineteen years ago)

I'm sorry, but I can't listen to a Maroon 5 song without wishing I had a recording contract, a fuck-off Marshall stack and unimpeachable guitar ability right that minute. Wrongs need to be righted, dude.

― Scourage (Haberdager), Thursday, 24 August 2006 14:37 (nineteen years ago)

If by that they mean 'musical movement which itself is overwhelmingly awful but might somehow spark a healthy re-evaluation of where popular music is going', then perhaps.

oh can it, dude.

― got so much $ can't spend it so fast (teenagequiet), Thursday, 24 August 2006 14:39 (nineteen years ago)

n a post-Scissor Sisters, post-Guilty Pleasures age, the Feeling couldn’t have timed their arrival better. The quintet’s adhesively catchy melodies and defiant referencing of 1970s MOR must cause further consternation for the Bobby Gillespies of this world — that deluded subsect of fans who deem 1978 memorable primarily for the fact that Funkadelic put out One Nation Under a Groove rather than, say, Andrew Gold’s release of Never Let Her Slip Away. The Feeling’s frontman may share his name with Primal Scream’s musically correct mouthpiece, but in every other respect Dan Gillespie-Sells, a polite, posh-voiced Londoner, is a very different creature. One cites the Black Panthers as a key influence, the other will hold forth about the tight compositional values of the Pink Panther theme song. Not the film theme, you understand — but its “rinky-dink” cartoon counterpart.

Tosser.

― Brigadier Lethbridge-Pfunkboy (Kerr), Thursday, 24 August 2006 14:40 (nineteen years ago)

basically i don't trust anything in the times, their critics are all about dreaming up ingenious ways to defend laughable corporate schlock.

― Bashment Jakes (Enrique), Thursday, 24 August 2006 14:51 (nineteen years ago)

xpost god, even the singer of the band must wince at that one!

― mark grout (mark grout), Thursday, 24 August 2006 14:52 (nineteen years ago)

'musical movement which itself is overwhelmingly awful but might somehow spark a healthy re-evaluation of where popular music is going'

There's nothing in this line that isn't wrong.

― Pier Paolo Semolina (noodle vague), Thursday, 24 August 2006 14:54 (nineteen years ago)

i agree with louis, that punk is basically shit.

― Bashment Jakes (Enrique), Thursday, 24 August 2006 14:56 (nineteen years ago)

No you don't!

― mark grout (mark grout), Thursday, 24 August 2006 14:58 (nineteen years ago)

I've had this argument before. C: The Clash (who weren't really punk, more uptempo pop), plus bands like XTC who QUICKLY left 'punk' behind and became something infinitely better. D: The rest.

Personal opinion, yeah, but stuff like the Sex Pistols I just can't abide by.

― Scourage (Haberdager), Thursday, 24 August 2006 14:58 (nineteen years ago)

mark grout otm, i don't agree with what he just said.

― Bashment Jakes (Enrique), Thursday, 24 August 2006 14:59 (nineteen years ago)

Maybe, just maybe, a certain kind of shitty mentality might have crystallised around Poonk and lingered on to form the Indie blinkers we know and hate today, but hating on Punk is like hating on Pop and I can't go for that.

― Pier Paolo Semolina (noodle vague), Thursday, 24 August 2006 15:00 (nineteen years ago)

.. no can do.

― mark grout (mark grout), Thursday, 24 August 2006 15:00 (nineteen years ago)

I'd apply the same argument to Soft Rock, whatever that is this week.

― Pier Paolo Semolina (noodle vague), Thursday, 24 August 2006 15:01 (nineteen years ago)

:'(

There are rules?

― Scourage (Haberdager), Thursday, 24 August 2006 15:02 (nineteen years ago)

I'd never heard the The Feeling until last week. I really love the chord sequence of that "Fill My Little World" song, but the lyrics are borderline repellent. That seems to sum up most haircut indie for me in 2006.

― Pier Paolo Semolina (noodle vague), Thursday, 24 August 2006 15:05 (nineteen years ago)

My boss forced me to listen to this album then the Orson one right after that. I was surprised by how listenable The Feeling were (didn't hear any of the lyrics), although I've got no desire to experience it again. Orson are just flat out horrible

― DJ Mencap (DJ Mencap), Thursday, 24 August 2006 15:10 (nineteen years ago)

http://hecanjog.com/images/15megsHCJ.jpg

― mark grout (mark grout), Thursday, 24 August 2006 15:11 (nineteen years ago)

The Scissor Sisters had an AGE? So among the ages we have renniscance, industrialism, modernisim, postmodernisim, and the fucking scissor sisters? please, please - someone - take away that hack's computer

― Uncle Tom (Uncle Tom), Thursday, 24 August 2006 15:35 (nineteen years ago)

A lot of great stuff in the soft rock compilation CD following the latest edition of CD. May have to do with the fact that most of it isn't post rock at all, but more like powerpop, sophisti-pop and 70s pomp pop.

― Geir Hongro (GeirHong), Thursday, 24 August 2006 21:12 (nineteen years ago)

Sorry Geir, but which CD are you talking about? "compilation CD following the latest edition of CD"

― zeus (zeus), Friday, 25 August 2006 06:55 (nineteen years ago)

DELETE DELETE DELETE!

― Matt DC (Matt DC), Friday, 25 August 2006 07:31 (nineteen years ago)

Remember Hal and the Magic Numbers? Yes it was only a year ago.

― wogan lenin (dog latin), Friday, 25 August 2006 08:36 (nineteen years ago)

I also wanted to mention the Magic Numbers too. Also there's a Welsh band called The Storys, they supported Elton John on his tour this summer.

― zeus (zeus), Friday, 25 August 2006 08:43 (nineteen years ago)

i agree with louis, that punk is basically shit.

Hang around, in a few years time Punk will be the new Soft Rock which was the new Punk

― dud Hab 'C' dEva (Dada), Friday, 25 August 2006 08:49 (nineteen years ago)

I've had this argument before. C: The Clash (who weren't really punk, more uptempo pop), plus bands like XTC who QUICKLY left 'punk' behind and became something infinitely better. D: The rest.

You don't like the Ramones? You are dead to me, hombre. LOL @ CLash not being punk!

― dud Hab 'C' dEva (Dada), Friday, 25 August 2006 08:51 (nineteen years ago)

when i see the feeling it kind of makes me think of 'peep show', which is bad, because i like 'peep show'.

― Bashment Jakes (Enrique), Friday, 25 August 2006 09:00 (nineteen years ago)

I love the Steve Miller Band but until today I thought it was just my problem.

― Marco Damiani (Marco D.), Friday, 25 August 2006 09:01 (nineteen years ago)

are the feeling the ones with the guy who looks like hitler? they tried to add me on myspace so i accepted and wrote loads of crap on their site. then i started an ilx thread about it. i am such a geek.

― wogan lenin (dog latin), Friday, 25 August 2006 11:19 (nineteen years ago)

are the feeling the ones with the guy who looks like hitler?

Shurely Shparksh?

― dud Hab 'C' dEva (Dada), Friday, 25 August 2006 11:37 (nineteen years ago)

I've not heard any Ramones, so I'm not ruling them out yet! :-)

The Clash are clearly more sophisticated than your average three-chord thrash band. Perhaps we mean different things by 'punk', perhaps my guidelines are narrower than yours.

― Scourage (Haberdager), Friday, 25 August 2006 13:04 (nineteen years ago)

yeah, i def want my punk sophisticated.

that's the whole point, right?

― a rapper singing about hos and bitches and money (Enrique), Friday, 25 August 2006 13:08 (nineteen years ago)

xp - please never talk about rock music again.

― got so much $ can't spend it so fast (teenagequiet), Friday, 25 August 2006 13:10 (nineteen years ago)

How many of the original punk bands were "average three-chord thrash bands"? Certainly not the Sex Pistols!

― dud Hab 'C' dEva (Dada), Friday, 25 August 2006 13:10 (nineteen years ago)

And the Clash are not clearly more sophisticated... yes, maybe on rubbish like "Sandanista" but not on their punk stuff

― dud Hab 'C' dEva (Dada), Friday, 25 August 2006 13:12 (nineteen years ago)

LOCK/DESTROY THREAD

― Mr. Que (Mr.Que), Friday, 25 August 2006 13:13 (nineteen years ago)

sophisticated is a state of mind.

― mark grout (mark grout), Friday, 25 August 2006 13:14 (nineteen years ago)

not fair to start this thread when Jaxon goes on vacation.

― Steve Shasta (Steve Shasta), Friday, 25 August 2006 13:21 (nineteen years ago)

Soft punk is the new rock?

― Ned Raggett (Ned), Friday, 25 August 2006 13:22 (nineteen years ago)

Soft Cell is the new STOP IT STOP IT STOP IT DESTROY THREAD

― Mr. Que (Mr.Que), Friday, 25 August 2006 13:23 (nineteen years ago)

Ah yes.

― Ned Raggett (Ned), Friday, 25 August 2006 13:24 (nineteen years ago)

It's my firm opinion that London Calling is a varied, sophisticated, nuanced record, and nothing can change my mind on that. Even early singles like 'White Man In Hammersmith Palais' show a great deal of compositional forethought, progression and skill. Lyrically, they're thoughtful, even poetic on occasions, and I've not heard Sandinista so no comment.

What WERE the Sex Pistols then if they weren't three-chord thrash?

― Scourage (Haberdager), Friday, 25 August 2006 13:33 (nineteen years ago)

oh check your chord charts for "Anarchy in the UK" if you must know.

― mark grout (mark grout), Friday, 25 August 2006 13:35 (nineteen years ago)

headinhands.gif

― got so much $ can't spend it so fast (teenagequiet), Friday, 25 August 2006 13:36 (nineteen years ago)

Soft punk is the new rock?

I hear the kids call it "emo".

― Rodn y Greene (R. J. Greene), Friday, 25 August 2006 13:36 (nineteen years ago)

I hear they are depressed and sad.

― Ned Raggett (Ned), Friday, 25 August 2006 13:38 (nineteen years ago)

Skipping 38 messages at this point... Click here if you want to load them all.

12XU is not punk, dummy. It's not like any other bands have taken inspiration from the song, or, heck, gone so far as to cover it. It's way too poppy and slow compared to WIRE's other stuff. Jeez. . . .

― Mr. Que (Mr.Que), Friday, 25 August 2006 15:47 (nineteen years ago)

"12XU" sounds pretty damn "punky" to me!

― dud Hab 'C' dEva (Dada), Friday, 25 August 2006 15:50 (nineteen years ago)

I know. I was trying to wind people up. Thanks for ruining my day, punker.

― Mr. Que (Mr.Que), Friday, 25 August 2006 15:51 (nineteen years ago)

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=F6vOiyMi8l0&mode=related&search=

― Mr. Que (Mr.Que), Friday, 25 August 2006 15:51 (nineteen years ago)

Oh fuck, this is all too confusing

― dud Hab 'C' dEva (Dada), Friday, 25 August 2006 15:51 (nineteen years ago)

Okay, I'm listening to those songs right now. 'Champs' is actually a pretty groovy workout, the best of the lot IMO, but on the strength of these (which a friend of mind sent me on a mixtape as the best on the album), I can say that my overall opinion hasn't changed: punk really isn't for me.

The sweeping statement at the top was deliberately so, and designed to attract massive debate. So I guess I've succeeded in one respect. Lost in all the others.

― Scourage (Haberdager), Friday, 25 August 2006 15:53 (nineteen years ago)

a friend of mind sent me on a mixtape as the best on the album

Tell your friend he has shit taste when it comes to Wire

― dud Hab 'C' dEva (Dada), Friday, 25 August 2006 15:55 (nineteen years ago)

I reckon, there are about, ohhhhhhhhhhh, 15 better songs on "Pink Flag" than "Champs"

― dud Hab 'C' dEva (Dada), Friday, 25 August 2006 15:56 (nineteen years ago)

The punk fans posting on this thread are a fine testament to punk's status as one of the dourest musics on the planet.

― everything (everything), Friday, 25 August 2006 15:56 (nineteen years ago)

Champs is sooooo groovy your are right scrooge mc duck

http://flicksofhollywood.com/images/WDCC/1230080%20%20Scrooge%20McDuck.JPG

― Mr. Que (Mr.Que), Friday, 25 August 2006 15:57 (nineteen years ago)

Louis Jagger I would say something really mean about you right now but you would probably just shrug it off as some sort of ironic self-deprecating thing or whatever

you are like a tiny adorable porcupine whose quills I keep finding in my box of quaker oat squares

― bernard snow (sixteen sergeants), Friday, 25 August 2006 15:57 (nineteen years ago)

wait scrooge mcduck is louis jagger? But I thought Pluto wasn't a planet anymore. Will someone explain to me what is going on?

― Mr. Que (Mr.Que), Friday, 25 August 2006 15:59 (nineteen years ago)

The punk fans posting on this thread are a fine testament to punk's status as one of the dourest musics on the planet

I'm not even a punk fan, I've just heard more than two punk albums that's all!

― dud Hab 'C' dEva (Dada), Friday, 25 August 2006 15:59 (nineteen years ago)

does anyone remember that episode of Ducktales where Scrooge's nephews try to jump into the vault and swim around in it while he's gone, and they just bounce off of the gold?

I think that would be a much more appropriate mental image for this thread and poster

― bernard snow (sixteen sergeants), Friday, 25 August 2006 16:01 (nineteen years ago)

Well, Bernard, I've gone a coupla weeks without even a mid-range flame-out/harsh lesson in ILX life, so it was coming. :-)

― Scourage (Haberdager), Friday, 25 August 2006 16:02 (nineteen years ago)

did the warm-up guy do blue peter?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qJzMKSJh36A&NR

― The Real DG (D to thee G), Friday, 25 August 2006 16:02 (nineteen years ago)

Sorry Geir, but which CD are you talking about? "compilation CD following the latest edition of CD"

Hmm. That would be Q :)

― Geir Hongro (GeirHong), Friday, 25 August 2006 19:25 (nineteen years ago)

what the hell did Uncle Scrooge eat?

― latebloomradoodle (latebloomer), Friday, 25 August 2006 19:32 (nineteen years ago)

Jesus christ, Louis.

I just listened to the first Avengers record yesterday, punk roolz.

― M@tt He1geson: Real Name, No Gimmicks (Matt Helgeson), Friday, 25 August 2006 19:52 (nineteen years ago)

This hasn't been my finest hour. LOCK PLZ MODS.

― Scourage (Haberdager), Friday, 25 August 2006 19:58 (nineteen years ago)

Locking threads: not punk

― Dom Passantino (Dom Passantino), Friday, 25 August 2006 20:09 (nineteen years ago)

Well, I'm not about punk.

FFS, I'm 19, I should be out there railing against foreign policy and bemoaning the prevalence of apathy in current British society WHAT HAS HAPPENED TO THE YOUTH OF TODAY???

― Scourage (Haberdager), Friday, 25 August 2006 20:26 (nineteen years ago)

Have we discussed John Mayer's new Trustafarian anthem?

― marc h. (marc h.), Friday, 25 August 2006 20:52 (nineteen years ago)

the punkers use Tales From Topographical Oceans as sufficient evidence to dismiss prog

THIS IS NOT AND NEVER HAS BEEN TRUE FFS

― Pier Paolo Semolina (noodle vague), Saturday, 26 August 2006 13:30 (nineteen years ago)

xxpost Yeah, dude totally, records are just like, diversionary tactics by the man to keep us off capitol hill with our torches and our "We Shall Overcome" chanting. Music was totally administered into the ghettos by the CIA to keep 19 year old punk kids with computers complacent about foreign policy and Bush's AmeriKKKa. Dare to be great, Joanie Caucus. Dare to be great.

― Wand Milius (Roger Fidelity), Saturday, 26 August 2006 14:16 (nineteen years ago)

xpost: That bit at least was a wind-up.

― Scourage (Haberdager), Saturday, 26 August 2006 16:17 (nineteen years ago)

If by wind-up you mean spouting trite and patently untrue bollocks then yeah, nice wind-up.

― Pier Paolo Semolina (noodle vague), Saturday, 26 August 2006 16:21 (nineteen years ago)

Well, it wasn't meant to be true, it was indeed meant to be bollocks, of the wind-up variety. Hence the phrase 'wind-up'. Gah!

― Scourage (Haberdager), Saturday, 26 August 2006 16:23 (nineteen years ago)

My oldest son is never wrong either.

― Pier Paolo Semolina (noodle vague), Saturday, 26 August 2006 16:24 (nineteen years ago)

The 'non-sequitur' defence, or an obvious reference I haven't spotted?

― Scourage (Haberdager), Saturday, 26 August 2006 16:34 (nineteen years ago)

Oh, wait, you're comparing my argument techniques to your oldest son. How old is he?

― Scourage (Haberdager), Saturday, 26 August 2006 16:34 (nineteen years ago)

scourage i thought your point with the topographic oceans dig was that (some? many?) punkers are totally uninformed about thee rich complexity of 70s progressive rock - which may possibly be true - yet despite their igorance reject it all out of hand based on that one album (i would say PUNKS (not "punkers" (= music lovers today who love punk?)) i.e. punk musicians of the mid-late 70s were probably far more intimately informed about prog than most of us are, just because of its day-to-day existence on the radio and in the world)

this was your "excuse" for drawing genre lines, demarcating territory, one one side of which is PUNK (= you do not like; is simple; is crude) on the other side of which is MARQUEE MOON (= you do like; it is complex; it is subtle)

now you say the first part about topographic oceans was just a wind up. so what IS your excuse for engaging in very tiresome territorial exercises about music which you have admitted you know nothing about?

― Euai Kapaui (tracerhand), Saturday, 26 August 2006 17:56 (nineteen years ago)

"FFS, I'm 19, I should be out there railing against foreign policy and bemoaning the prevalence of apathy in current British society WHAT HAS HAPPENED TO THE YOUTH OF TODAY???"

Youth of Today broke up, what, in 1990 or so?

And anyone who can hate on the Buzzcocks singles ain't no friend of mine.
Which you haven't, because you haven't heard 'em.
Which means that maybe 19 is the age to have broad theories about music that aren't based on any real knowledge. I know it was for me!

― js (honestengine), Saturday, 26 August 2006 18:20 (nineteen years ago)

xpost: The TFTO dig was a wind-up rooted in a vague truth. Punks DO frequently knock the album, but it isn't the ONLY reason they choose to be ignorant about prog. I threw it in not as an excuse but as a vaguely amusing comeback, with the general idea of trivialising and thus diffusing the nasty situation I'd gotten myself into. It did refer to the fact that I'm not the only one bashing on little evidence, but it didn't excuse it; the 'No, YOU'RE smelly' style of debate is not one I like to use any more.

I don't know 'nothing' about punk anyway; punk to me is as I define it. I erred in my argument, and I have no excuse whatsoever.

I've also learnt my lesson; let's move on. I'm young, I'll only improve and mature.

― Scourage (Haberdager), Saturday, 26 August 2006 18:21 (nineteen years ago)

Definitions that are peculiar to yourself are not very useful tools for debate though. I tend to adhere to the theory that if enough people call Band X punk, then they're punk. (Insert Generation X gag here.) Obviously the details are more complicated, but as a general theory I reckon that's sound.

Also, Never Mind the Bollocks is crude and simple like Metal Box is: only to superficial examination.

― Pier Paolo Semolina (noodle vague), Saturday, 26 August 2006 18:30 (nineteen years ago)

Also also, discussing your rhetorical devices ain't gonna win you points on ILM.

― Eppy (Eppy), Saturday, 26 August 2006 18:33 (nineteen years ago)

I'm not trying to win points, this is damage-limitation, dude.

I only listened to NMTB a coupla years ago and didn't like it, I'll know now to give it a few goes before judging (as I have other records since then). I'll accept that my throwaway comment at the top of the thread was ill-judged, and based mostly around 'punky' songs written in the past few years rather than the genuine 70's rawk'n'roll. Mea culpa and all that, I was wrong, sorry guyz, LOCK THREAD SRSLY NOW PLZ MODS.

Unless you wanna get back to talking about soft-rock. ;-)

― Scourage (Haberdager), Saturday, 26 August 2006 18:45 (nineteen years ago)

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tLuLE3jm1VU&NR

― Marmot (marmotwolof), Saturday, 26 August 2006 18:54 (nineteen years ago)

"The ball's in my court. I have the upper hand!"

It's so true.

― Scourage (Haberdager), Saturday, 26 August 2006 18:56 (nineteen years ago)

Things I've been thinking about NMtB lately:

1) The sound of it anticipates PIL more than some people think. The guitar is relatively low in the mix, the drums and vocals are on top. Rotten/Lydon is already in full command of his instrument (pace D. Perry). It's kinda dubby. It grooves when it wants to.

2) It's not a Rock album, it's a Pop album.

3) Lyrically it's obviously a million times more political/subversive than the collected works of ver Clash. I like ver Clash fine but this is true.

― Pier Paolo Semolina (noodle vague), Saturday, 26 August 2006 19:02 (nineteen years ago)

LOUIS, A BUNCH OF PUNKS LIKED PROG. YOU DON'T KNOW WHAT THE FUCK YOU'RE TALKING ABOUT.

― M@tt He1geson: Real Name, No Gimmicks (Matt Helgeson), Saturday, 26 August 2006 19:16 (nineteen years ago)

I know not ALL of them...

look, STOP HURTING ME! It's been established, after all, that I made an overconfident statement on a messageboard inhabited by people who know far, far better, and I'm licking my wounds as a result. To kick a man while he's down (and admitting he's wrong, which is I'd have thought enough to render the argument over) is dishonourable, squire.

― Scourage (Haberdager), Saturday, 26 August 2006 19:20 (nineteen years ago)

ronnie biggs "no one is innocent" vs pablo cruise "i go to rio"

― dave q (listerine), Saturday, 26 August 2006 19:43 (nineteen years ago)

I'll know now to give it a few goes before judging

judging = a dull reason for listening to music

― Euai Kapaui (tracerhand), Sunday, 27 August 2006 08:30 (nineteen years ago)

although i'll admit it is a sometimes inevitable and often satisfying consequence

― Euai Kapaui (tracerhand), Sunday, 27 August 2006 09:57 (nineteen years ago)

http://rasta.samara.ws/text/music/images/dread.jpg

― Pier Paolo Semolina (noodle vague), Sunday, 27 August 2006 10:06 (nineteen years ago)

Totally off topic but "Pier Paolo Semolina" is the greatest thing I've heard all week.

― less-than three's Christiane F. (drowned in milk), Tuesday, 29 August 2006 01:34 (nineteen years ago)

'somewhere in the night' by helen reddy is soft rock (yes it is ! the drums are very good) and although it's true that the song pertains to 'loving' rather than unemployment
('right to work') or bad office jobs (don't dictate), it rouses me into a spirit of rebellious DIY inspiration to form a band and experiment with cocaine. Until 'get closer' by seals and crofts comes up next on the shuffle and i realize i will never be able to understand green day despite yoko ono's kind words. Eat your heart out on a plastic tray.

― Dr. Joseph A. Ofalt (hyloolnuspstt), Tuesday, 29 August 2006 03:20 (nineteen years ago)

Nabisco OTM.

― Rockist_Scientist (RSLaRue), Tuesday, 29 August 2006 03:29 (nineteen years ago)

Of course you don't have to be a punker to realise that "Tales From Topographic Oceans" is shit

― dud Hab 'C' dEva (Dada), Wednesday, 30 August 2006 15:49 (nineteen years ago)

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