Taking Sides: Cannibal Ox vs. Cannibal Corpse

Heard Can Ox for the VERY FIRST time yesterday. Reaction - "Hmmm, next?" Maybe someone could explain to me what I should be looking for? All that happened was, I got bored and put So Solid Crew back on. Just on a purely musical level (couldn't care less about the 'backpacker' vs. 'real' thing), the fact that Def Jux gets more love here than SSC means something's seriously fucked, IMHO.

I think the Def Jux ppl just shout louder.

Seriously tho, there's a gen-yoo-ine musical/cultural phenomenon happening right under your skyward-as-usual English noses, and what do people talk about? Some hooked-on-phonics droning 'dystopian' drivel! It's enough to make me want to do an Andrew Lloyd Webber and threaten to leave the country! (Upsetting some people in the process I'm sure)

There've been tons of SSC threads here! Not as many as Cannibal Ox but there would be if Ethan was flip-flopping over whether he liked Oxide's beats as much as he does over El-P's.

'Tons of SSC threads' - only because I started most of them!

Also aren't all the people starting threads on Cann Ox not-English? I think the all-the-English-hate-So-Solid thing is a bit of a phantom, like Marcello's Gavin-and-Emma arguments (and hey, he luvs SSC).

But, but, but... Dave, weren't you the one who started the "Another stick to beat UK garage with" thread in days of yore? Not that I mind you changing your mind, but an explanation might be interesting in light of yer Can Ox vs SSC 'plaint.

dave q toby ambrose dave q dave q (this is oxide and neutrino tho)

all filed in BUGABOOS AND TOUCHSTONES, the cat for cats we just can't kick

plus another stick

(not yet filed)

(plus what are all these tiresome millions of cannibal ox threads called: there are only two w.the name in the name versus five solid crew threads with the name in the name)

(sorry dave q to derail yr thread with matters pertaining to archiving: i just put ethan on can ox in BUGABOOS but actually i may take em OUT again seeing as "we" don't obsessively return to them that much after all)

Tim - the shameful 'another stick' thing was written before I actually listened to the record. Pretty crap of me, I know.

cannibal corpse is fucken bad ass.... have any of yall actually heard them? they fukn rock.... but hey,.... so does Cannibal Ox!.... Peace> ManZ RyC DcB<~~~

Is it perhaps too simple to suggest than an appreciation for Cannibal Ox requires one first to have done time exploring the more traditional forms of rap and its various splinterings and that, therefore, it's not necessarily bound for appreciation by someone still digging on the SSC?

Not saying there's anything wrong with that, but there's certainly an evolution to music as the listener becomes more experienced and the ear more discerning. The people I know who love Cannibal Ox (and indeed the whole Def Jux roster) are diehard hip-hop fans who have evolved into critical listeners over time and exposure to the genre. For someone to come in cold to hip-hop and then deride Cannibal Ox for being boring or clothesless (like an emperor) or whatever - isn't that a bit like a jazz virgin listening to an Ornette Coleman record and going 'err - it's a bit messy and formless isn't it - where's the girl from ipanema then!'

(Which, incidentally, is how I sometimes (re: almost always) feel about Coleman, but only, admittedly, because I know dick about jazz.)

Anyway, methinks this whole Cannibal Ox Sucks sentiment (if there is one) is symptomatic of Anne's very insightment comments re: black artists as minstrels a week or two back. Is the subtext of this thread that all black music should be instantly accessible? And, if so, did I completely contradict myself with the Coleman example? Probably so. Just trying to open things up...

ok possibly except the insightful anne on that thread was actually ethan, who hates Cann Ox becuz he knows LOTS abt hiphop! ps i think ornette is EASIER to like if you know less abt "classic" jazz

But don't you think muso classics, in general, are more difficult to appreciate without prior context?

I can't find that damn thread. It wasn't started by Anne, but it was triggered by her statements re: ILM's fear of black artists. I'm wondering if the sentiment posited here (ie. 'I listened to Can Ox a few times and it's crap.') is an extension of the ideas put forth by Anne (or whomever quoted her).

oh hell.

Ethan!

Not trying to implicate you as a hip-hop beginner, promise.

But I have noticed that (*in general*) the people who've been, shall we say, underwhelmed by The Cold Vein are people who don't have the background. Conversely, the ones who are really digging on it (*in general*) are the total heads...

yeah i guess that anne has my number.

coleman is an anti-muso classic

Anyone gonna let Mark slip by with that? ("which ethan hates because he knows LOTS about hip-hop")

(the 'because' is under dispute, not the 'knows lots about hip-hop')

CANNBAL OX'S LYRICS BLOW MY MIND. THEY ARE SO ILL AT WHAT THEY DO, AND THEIR SONGS, ESPECIALLY "THE f-word" HAS EFFECTED MY LIFE IN SO MANY WAYs... Vast Aire spits it real. Everybody should give them some fuckin credit, no doubt no doubt,smoke a blunt to your dome, and listen to their lyrics. For real.. Trust. ONE.

"the f-word has effected my life in so many ways" = ??!!?!??!?!

Free Jazz was the first jazz album I ever loved.