What was the first Hardcore Rave track?

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...that is in the vein of N-Joi, Prodigy, Altern-8, KLF etc as opposed to being Electro or Detroit Techno or whatever?

As a side note, how long is it till we can expect a Hardcore revival?

― wogan lenin (dog latin), Monday, 6 November 2006 14:13 (eighteen years ago)

http://image.guardian.co.uk/sys-images/Arts/Arts_/Pictures/2006/07/13/klaxons372.jpg

'welcome to slightly earlier in 2006'

― benrique (Enrique), Monday, 6 November 2006 14:17 (eighteen years ago)

stakker humanoid?

― Britain's Obtusest Shepherd (Alan), Monday, 6 November 2006 14:22 (eighteen years ago)

otm

― benrique (Enrique), Monday, 6 November 2006 14:22 (eighteen years ago)

I hear the Klaxons are the biggest band in Britain right now.

― dommy p is alright WHICH IS A LOT MORE THAN I CAN SAY ABOUT A LOT OF PEOPLE (Dom, Monday, 6 November 2006 14:23 (eighteen years ago)

Enrique, pay attention - we've already decided that just because a lame indie band says they sound like Rave music it doesn't mean that they're anything other than a crap indie band.

― wogan lenin (dog latin), Monday, 6 November 2006 14:23 (eighteen years ago)

new album "Mason & Dixon" by Klaxon Band sounds promising

― Britain's Obtusest Shepherd (Alan), Monday, 6 November 2006 14:24 (eighteen years ago)

N-Joi, Prodigy, Altern-8, KLF

all a bit different really but for actual 'ardkore' maybe 'Mr Kirk's Nightmare' - mixed bleepiness of LFO etc. with sped up breaks.

― 2 american 4 u (blueski), Monday, 6 November 2006 14:29 (eighteen years ago)

I am a bad person. I'd never actually heard the Klaxons before starting this thread, mostly because I figured I wouldn't ever need to. But just so I could back up my argument, I checked a couple of tunes on YouTube... and had my suspicions confirmed. How are they trying to package this as Rave exactly?

― wogan lenin (dog latin), Monday, 6 November 2006 14:31 (eighteen years ago)

"Indie kids who surreptiously spat out their first pill into a water bottle trying to be teh hip"

― dommy p is alright WHICH IS A LOT MORE THAN I CAN SAY ABOUT A LOT OF PEOPLE (Dom, Monday, 6 November 2006 14:35 (eighteen years ago)

Indie Kids who have tried pills before... FUCK YOU MUM AND DAD!

― wogan lenin (dog latin), Monday, 6 November 2006 14:37 (eighteen years ago)

Didn't Shut Up and Dance claim to have invented the genre?

― Tuomas (Tuomas), Monday, 6 November 2006 14:43 (eighteen years ago)

there were three-odd years of raves before breakbeat 'ardkore came along. the (musical) term 'rave' has always been a bit unstable as a result.

― benrique (Enrique), Monday, 6 November 2006 14:45 (eighteen years ago)

maybe the term "Acid House" was used rather than "Rave" which I think only really got coined about 1991, no?

I think Shut Up & Dance invented Jungle? Or am I wrong?

― wogan lenin (dog latin), Monday, 6 November 2006 14:50 (eighteen years ago)

yr rite. it was all "acid X" before 91/92 ish

― Britain's Obtusest Shepherd (Alan), Monday, 6 November 2006 14:51 (eighteen years ago)

SUAD's first album is part of that post-acid pre-ardkore bleeps interim period (see also 'We R E' altho you only have to speed that up by 20bpm and it's archetypal ardkore). Ditto much early Reinforced but by the time Suburban Base put out Kromozone's 'The Rush' I guess 'hardcore' template was established, different enough from N-Joi, Praga Khan et al.

― 2 american 4 u (blueski), Monday, 6 November 2006 14:53 (eighteen years ago)

'We R E' aka We Are I.E.

― 2 american 4 u (blueski), Monday, 6 November 2006 14:57 (eighteen years ago)

re Hardcore revival there was that 'If Only I Had One More' track by Dairy Milk Warrior (heard this via gareth) from 2003...modern take on the sound but still quite faithful to the original style. there must be more tracks like that (things like John B's fab 'When I'm Close 2 U' come close but no cigar) from the last three years but i don't know them myself :(

― 2 american 4 u (blueski), Monday, 6 November 2006 15:03 (eighteen years ago)

http://www.backtotheoldskool.co.uk/hardcore_uproar.htm

together - hardcore uproar, gets my vote for first

― -- (688), Monday, 6 November 2006 15:05 (eighteen years ago)

I go to the odd oldskool rave, and the scene is still surprisingly huge. There are always lots of kids about merrily dancing next to the e'd up raver dads.

― chap who would dare to welcome our new stingray masters (chap), Monday, 6 November 2006 15:06 (eighteen years ago)

I've always understood "rave" to be a crossover term from the London soul/rare-groove/warehouse/KISS FM/Africa Centre/Norman Jay/Jazzie B etc etc scene... as is "drum and bass", come to think of it. My sister used to go to KISS FM "raves" in 1988/89, but there was no actual "rave" music played. So "hardcore rave" probably existed as music before anyone actually called it "hardcore rave".

Stakker Humanoid has to be as good a starting place as any... and 808 State's "Cubik" set something into motion, as well.

― mike t-diva (mike t-diva), Monday, 6 November 2006 15:07 (eighteen years ago)

i dont think of those as hardcore tracks

― -- (688), Monday, 6 November 2006 15:08 (eighteen years ago)

which came first out of that and Awesome 3's 'Hard Up'? released around the same time, v similar to each other. are they really Hardcore/Ardkore tho?

they do at least have that all important piano element - which SUAD weren't really big on for some reason

― 2 american 4 u (blueski), Monday, 6 November 2006 15:09 (eighteen years ago)

talking about similarity with 'Hardcore Uproar' re 'Hard Up'

― 2 american 4 u (blueski), Monday, 6 November 2006 15:09 (eighteen years ago)

which SUAD weren't really big on for some reason

apart from when sampling Marc Cohn obviously!

― 2 american 4 u (blueski), Monday, 6 November 2006 15:10 (eighteen years ago)

Hardcore Uproar's track came out around the same time as Tricky Disco and LFO I think. At least I remember them all being heralded as the first exponents of "Bleep Techno" at the time.

― wogan lenin (dog latin), Monday, 6 November 2006 15:13 (eighteen years ago)

there's a bit too much teleology involved in playing up the breakbeats = ardkore angle perhaps.

― benrique (Enrique), Monday, 6 November 2006 15:14 (eighteen years ago)

Breaks are surely key defining element (not all ardkore has piano but everything i think of as ardkore has breaks, at varying tempos (slowest may be something like Timebass's Sub Base classic 'Fireball' which is similar to Altern 8's 'Evapor-8'). This is only if you want to distinguish between Rave and Hardcore/Ardkore at all, latter being one style within a scene encompassing several styles. May not be that worthwhile ultimately (but how you get from 'Humanoid' to 'Renegade Snares' is an interesting journey because the two are so different but meant to be part of the same thing somehow).

― 2 american 4 u (blueski), Monday, 6 November 2006 15:44 (eighteen years ago)

that's what i mean, i guess -- that the breaks aren't the only interesting thing about the early um breaks tracks -- they have a lot else in common with eg sheffield bleeps as well as what came later.

― benrique (Enrique), Monday, 6 November 2006 15:48 (eighteen years ago)

what about GABBA?

― wogan lenin (dog latin), Monday, 6 November 2006 15:49 (eighteen years ago)

I guess there were Dutch types doing gabber in 92 or 93 but I'm not really sure where hardcore stops and gabber starts.

Was the term 'rave' not used to describe all-night parties in the 60s, or have I totally imagined reading this?

― Feargal Hixxy (DJ Mencap), Monday, 6 November 2006 16:00 (eighteen years ago)

ihttp://users.bigpond.net.au/Yardbirds/Rave%20up%20-%20midi.jpg

― benrique (Enrique), Monday, 6 November 2006 16:06 (eighteen years ago)

Feargal Hixxy = lol name

― 2 american 4 u (blueski), Monday, 6 November 2006 16:13 (eighteen years ago)

"can u party"

― bo janglin (dubplatestyle), Monday, 6 November 2006 16:56 (eighteen years ago)

First breakbeat hardcore tracks are def. SUAD. First "hardcore" is more difficult esp. since technically a lot of early acid house or beep'n'bass stuff could be considered hardcore. First Belgian stuff and Beltram could make a good argument though.

― Alex in SF (Alex in SF), Monday, 6 November 2006 17:01 (eighteen years ago)

"can u party"

OTM! todd terry owns this thread, closely followed by frankie bones and lenny d. the first time i heard anyone use the term 'hardcore' was in '88 in reference to royal house. those royal house records were surely the spark that ignited uk producer's imaginations away from 4/4 acid house and onto what became rave records.

― stirmonster (stirmonster), Monday, 6 November 2006 17:43 (eighteen years ago)

this thread seems to kind of suggest a path that goes acidhouse-bleep-hardcore. but i dont see it that way.

i kind of think of hardcore as really becoming its own genre of music once people turned away from belgium, arguably gaining its name from 'belgian hardcore', with the belgian element falling away.

some of these records above are like shards, precursors, but i dont know if id call them hardcore.

another shard might well be frank de wulf's 'the tape'

― -- (688), Monday, 6 November 2006 18:03 (eighteen years ago)

'We R E' aka We Are I.E.

If the restrictions are British Breakbeat Hardcore, this was going to be my guess too, with honarable mention going to Bizarre Inc.'s "Playing With Knives"

― PappaWheelie, don't fuck this up (PappaWheelie 2), Monday, 6 November 2006 18:31 (eighteen years ago)

People are still underestimating how *huge* hardcore is again these days, compilations now sell in the hundreds of thousands and you'll see those Masters Of Hardcore bomber jackets all over town in almost every major European city from Holland to Germany to Italy to Slovenia. This stuff easily outsells trance, techno and minimal combined.

As someone mostly involved in the prole end of "continental" dance music (ha!), it still seems weird to hear UK people refer to oldschool rave as "hardcore" and to, well, proper hardcore as "gabber" (which as a genre name has not been used by anyone in that scene since 1996)

Anyway, some records:
Holy Noise - Enter The Darkness (1991) (the first Dutch hardcore record)
Phenomania - Who Is Elvis (1991) - Lissat/Zenker on the R&S sublabel ETC - again, the Belgian connection.
Rhythm Device (=Frank de Wulf) - Acid Rock (1989) (too new beat? the lines between new beat and hardcore are thin but if you take tempo as a defining characteristic it's not hardcore)
I always viewed the Lenny Dee/Frankie Bones stuff as just hard acid techno/house, but the connection is obvious (Lenny did go hardcore when he came over and worked with the Dutch and Belgian guys: Crowd Control, Rotterdam Records, Two Terrorists, etc).

But the real winner is, of course, this.

― Siegbran (eofor), Monday, 6 November 2006 21:49 (eighteen years ago)

yay! jess wins thread!!

stirmonster is right about frankie bones, though.

― HUNTA-V (vahid), Monday, 6 November 2006 22:17 (eighteen years ago)

serious, i was listening to "can u party" last week and was kinda amazed by how "hardcore" it sounded in the brit sense.

― bo janglin (dubplatestyle), Monday, 6 November 2006 22:21 (eighteen years ago)

Errr, Royal House "Party People" pre-dates "Can U Party", surely? There's not a fat lot of difference between the two (as I recall), and it didn't have anything like the same degree of impact (in the UK at any rate), but still...

― mike t-diva (mike t-diva), Monday, 6 November 2006 22:59 (eighteen years ago)

I had always heard that Mescalinum United's "We Have Arrived" (recorded '89, released '90 I believe?) was the first hardcore record? I don't know from electronic sub-sub-genres but I know that "We Have Arrived" sounds a lot harder-core than anything else I have heard from 1989, or 1990 for that matter.

― owen moorhead (i heart daniel miller), Monday, 6 November 2006 23:08 (eighteen years ago)

Oh, never mind; I see I have been beaten to the punch by Siegbran.

― owen moorhead (i heart daniel miller), Monday, 6 November 2006 23:09 (eighteen years ago)

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