The Backstory: how important is it?

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I'm thinking, "very"...but I dunno...I mean, it's hard to listen to a record like Donuts without considering the fact that Dilla completed it during the terminal stages of lupus...or that Paddy McAloon wrote I Trawl The Megahertz while recuperating from an illness that threatened to take his eyesight...I find these records to be almost unbearably poignant, but I'm not sure I would discern this quality if I were unaware of the circumstances behind them...how about you all?...do you find your appreciation of certain records to be heightened by what you read/heard/imagined to have gone on behind the scenes?...or is the backstory just not that big a deal (i.e. I'll enjoy my music on my own terms, thank you very much)...

hank (hank s), Friday, 5 January 2007 16:19 (nineteen years ago)

Oddly enough, I was thinking of this subject elsewhere with reference to film (whether or not Pan's Labyrinth can be fully enjoyed without at least a basic knowledge of the Spanish Civil War, specifically). Pretty much my thought is that something that can and does connect with an audience beyond one with arcane/specialist knowledge but which said smaller audience can and will appreciate nonetheless has got the right balance -- so extra knowledge can enhance, but most often we encounter art without that knowledge to start with.

Ned Raggett (Ned), Friday, 5 January 2007 16:27 (nineteen years ago)

it shouldn't be important, but sometimes it is.

M@tt He1geson: Sassy and I Don't Care Who Knows It (Matt Helgeson), Friday, 5 January 2007 16:29 (nineteen years ago)

For instance, it is important to note in the case of Maps of Norway that the lead figure wastes his time on a message board all day.

Ned Raggett (Ned), Friday, 5 January 2007 16:30 (nineteen years ago)

ditto for that album where the guy reads the almanac.

The Redd And The Blecch (Ken L), Friday, 5 January 2007 16:31 (nineteen years ago)

I think most of the time it's hugely important, even if we don't realize it.

Mark (MarkR), Friday, 5 January 2007 16:32 (nineteen years ago)

An example and counter-example: The Disintegration Loops. Knowing that they were made when attempting to digitise some previously recorded and old tape loops, and are due to the loops actually disintegrating during the recording process - classic. Knowing that this happened just before 9/11 and Basinski and pals spent that day watching the towers fall whilst listening to the loops - dud. I'm guessing it just depends on how much the story resonates with you.

ledge (ledge), Friday, 5 January 2007 16:32 (nineteen years ago)

ditto for that album where the guy reads the almanac.

Little is known about the sessions, beyond the influence of drink.

Ned Raggett (Ned), Friday, 5 January 2007 16:33 (nineteen years ago)

You can't escape what you know. The more you know about a piece of music and the circumstances of its birth (the more you emotionally connect to an artist's past work and/or persona, the more you think you understand on whatever level), the less you actually hear.

Our understandings interfere with our perception of music as pure sound. That's not necessarily a bad thing -- some will insist that you can't "properly" appreciate music without understanding its physics or provenance in some sense. But the the fact that knowledge artifacting distorts sensory audition is, nevertheless, simply and unavoidably true.

Perhaps this argument seems absurd or perverse. I accept that knowledge can illuminate and deepen our appreciation of music as art or music as intellectual object. But music as music, music as pure sound is cheapened by what we call understanding.

Adam Beales (Pye Poudre), Friday, 5 January 2007 16:35 (nineteen years ago)

i think about this stuff a lot! i like the idea of being able to go in cold to an album/movie, and not feel like i lack the ability to fully enjoy it, but i think knowing context DOES make a difference. however, i also think too many people see context/backstory as a justification for a sorta lame song/album/movie being glorified

69 (plsmith), Friday, 5 January 2007 16:35 (nineteen years ago)

andrei rublev rewards knowledge of russian history/soviet politics for example

69 (plsmith), Friday, 5 January 2007 16:36 (nineteen years ago)

in literature, this is the New Critic issue. I agree that "the backstory" has the potential to expand one's experience of whatever work of art, but the challenge is in properly characterizing/understanding the relationship between the two. I think that it is fairly difficult to do well and justifies the existence of critics.

horseshoe (horseshoe), Friday, 5 January 2007 16:44 (nineteen years ago)

so this kind of thing: too many people see context/backstory as a justification for a sorta lame song/album/movie being glorified

seems like the result of an overly simplistic reading of the relationship between backstory and said song/album/movie.

horseshoe (horseshoe), Friday, 5 January 2007 16:47 (nineteen years ago)

This subject always makes me think of this choice bit from Delillo's White Noise:

Several days later Murray asked me about a tourist attraction known as the most photographed barn in America. We drove 22 miles into the country around Farmington. There were meadows and apple orchards. White fences trailed through the rolling fields. Soon the sign started appearing. THE MOST PHOTOGRAPHED BARN IN AMERICA. We counted five signs before we reached the site. There were 40 cars and a tour bus in the makeshift lot. We walked along a cowpath to the slightly elevated spot set aside for viewing and photographing. All the people had cameras; some had tripods, telephoto lenses, filter kits. A man in a booth sold postcards and slides -- pictures of the barn taken from the elevated spot. We stood near a grove of trees and watched the photographers. Murray maintained a prolonged silence, occasionally scrawling some notes in a little book.

"No one sees the barn," he said finally.

A long silence followed.

"Once you've seen the signs about the barn, it becomes impossible to see the barn."

He fell silent once more. People with cameras left the elevated site, replaced by others.

"We're not here to capture an image, we're here to maintain one. Every photograph reinforces the aura. Can you feel it, Jack? An accumulation of nameless energies."

There was an extended silence. The man in the booth sold postcards and slides.

"Being here is a kind of spiritual surrender. We see only what the others see. The thousands who were here in the past, those who will come in the future. We've agreed to be part of a collective perception. It literally colors our vision. A religious experience in a way, like all tourism."

Another silence ensued.

"They are taking pictures of taking pictures," he said.

Mark (MarkR), Friday, 5 January 2007 16:49 (nineteen years ago)

I prefer the Walker Percy version of the same idea.

The Redd And The Blecch (Ken L), Friday, 5 January 2007 16:53 (nineteen years ago)

I have to admit that the above passage reads a LOT like a parody of this kind of thinking, though I don't imagine that cheap laffs were the whole of DeLillo's intent...

Adam Beales (Pye Poudre), Friday, 5 January 2007 16:55 (nineteen years ago)

Well, it is a very funny book, the Murray character in particular.

Mark (MarkR), Friday, 5 January 2007 16:56 (nineteen years ago)

well, it's a parody, but it's a respectful parody. I think DeLillo values Murray's criticism enough to make him a fairly smart dude, but he is often a figure of mockery.

that example is about a slightly different kind of backstory, though: reception rather than artist's biography/historical context/etc.

horseshoe (horseshoe), Friday, 5 January 2007 16:58 (nineteen years ago)

True, it is a little different. But I think all those things get mixed up together and are kind of inseparable. With a lot of music the backstory in terms of biography and historical context is attaches to the work (or is attached through marketing) just as securely as, say, the title. All of it gets carried down.

Mark (MarkR), Friday, 5 January 2007 17:02 (nineteen years ago)

and I guess the reason I note the difference is because it makes sense for a critic like Murray to aggrandize the reception side of the equation in the whole interpretation game: the creative power then goes to the readers of the work rather than its creator. sometimes I think this is what disagreements between artists and critcs are all about. it's a little depressing.

horseshoe (horseshoe), Friday, 5 January 2007 17:03 (nineteen years ago)

I think the backstory is important to an extent, but if I don't necessarily like the music, I always imagine I'm going to get grief from an irate fan. "He was going through rehab, and what have YOU done?"

LC (Damian), Friday, 5 January 2007 17:03 (nineteen years ago)

I've read it, and don't mean to slam it at all. For years I called it one of my favorite books ever, though I don't think I'd say that now (not to dismiss it, but it's been a while, and the vision e'er doth cloud).

Do remember that it was awful damn funny.

To horseshoe, I think the passage quoted is precisely appropriate, in that all those people are approaching the barn not as itself, but with the idea of its backstory in mind. They can't simply perceive the barn (as they might if they encountered it accidentally) because they are trapped in the thicket of their own intellectual pre-perception. They know what the barn is before they encounter it. Thus they cannot ever really "encounter" it at all. All they can do is compare fragments of perception to fragments of understanding.

You see the echos of this fragmented dissonance is criticism of every kind. The more people care about art, the more knowledgeable they become. But the more knowledgeable they are, the more disconnected their perceptions become. Causes lots of weirdness.

Adam Beales (Pye Poudre), Friday, 5 January 2007 17:04 (nineteen years ago)

xpost: yeah, Mark, I think literature as a model for this stuff isn't entirely exportable when you consider music, especially pop music. I'm a little out of my depth when it comes to that.

horseshoe (horseshoe), Friday, 5 January 2007 17:04 (nineteen years ago)

i love white noise, great book.

M@tt He1geson: Sassy and I Don't Care Who Knows It (Matt Helgeson), Friday, 5 January 2007 17:04 (nineteen years ago)

I disagree with you Adam cos I don't believe pure or unmediated apprehension is possible. There's always some sort of backstory, but not necessarily the artist's. And I don't think we're powerless in the face of this knowledge: it informs our experience but doesn't always necessarily control it.

Boom Dershowitz (noodle vague), Friday, 5 January 2007 17:08 (nineteen years ago)

I think the desire for pure and unmediated apprehension (the New Critical urge) is utopic, and I'm really sympathetic to that desire for a perfect world in which art can just exist on its own terms. but in practice it ends up discounting all kinds of experience in ways that are sometimes disturbing but aside from that just end up being wrong.

horseshoe (horseshoe), Friday, 5 January 2007 17:13 (nineteen years ago)

Generalisations like "backstory important/backstory unimportant" seem generally wrong, to me, now.

Boom Dershowitz (noodle vague), Friday, 5 January 2007 17:19 (nineteen years ago)

Boom nails it! The truth I cannot deny. If we cut out our brains, maybe we could have some kinda hippy-dippy "pure" communion with pure sound, but to the extent we can think at all, we're always dealing with intellectual artifacting in processing sensual perception. Hell, some would argue that we can't even experience sensory data without some kinda intellectual/experiential architecture to hang it all.

So, fine. You got me. I'm talking more about gray areas than some kinda either/or scenario. But I defend the basic principle. If we were brainless things, each individual perception would be an all-encompassing, featureless, meaningless TOTALITY. The more we know/experience, the more we can categorize, compare and thus (in a sense) perceive new experiences.

But there's a sort of tipping point that occurs somewhere along the line. When we're not just accumulating reference points but beginning to think about our own thinking. When we begin not only to know, but to know we know.

That's where the dissonance starts. And the dissonance isn't necessarily a bad thing. It's a product of knowledge, and I think knowledge is an (almost) absolute good. But the dissonance does eventually begin to occlude actual perception. More in some people than others, more in some thoughts than others. But it is real, it can be a problem, and you see it written very plainly in tons of informed criticism.

The more academic, the more distorted, IMO.

Adam Beales (Pye Poudre), Friday, 5 January 2007 17:20 (nineteen years ago)

I gotcha. In that sense, knowing is one of the things that can interfere with listening, somewhere opposite to distraction. Still, there are kinds of knowing which definitely enrich the way we listen to music. Knowing something about how music works - not necessarily in a formal way - is important because music is often about expectation of what will happen next.

(Akshully this isn't really what the thread question's about tho.)

Boom Dershowitz (noodle vague), Friday, 5 January 2007 17:32 (nineteen years ago)

backtracking a little, I don't know that this:

They can't simply perceive the barn (as they might if they encountered it accidentally) because they are trapped in the thicket of their own intellectual pre-perception. They know what the barn is before they encounter it. Thus they cannot ever really "encounter" it at all.

is precisely what Murray's driving at in that passage. (the fact that Murray's language is elliptical conveniently makes it hard to pinpoint exactly what he's driving at, of course.) but I think Murray just likes the idea that these people have all gathered to see together, and that their collective act of seeing trumps the object of their vision. rather than being interested in the philosophy of perception. this is why I would align him with a readerly school of criticism.

horseshoe (horseshoe), Friday, 5 January 2007 17:36 (nineteen years ago)

to make that a little more relevant to this thread, I don't really buy that knowledge is an obstacle to seeing.

horseshoe (horseshoe), Friday, 5 January 2007 17:40 (nineteen years ago)

"...think Murray just likes the idea that these people have all gathered to see together, and that their collective act of seeing trumps the object of their vision."

True, but maybe not the whole picture. As I vaguely recall, White Noise is largely about the experience of living in a commodified, prepackaged, information-dense landscape -- a landscape whose features have been designed for us, with our expectations in mind -- and the loss/blindness/paralysis that results from overexposure to such an environment. An environment that can't ever really be perceived for what it is, because what it intentionally and/or apparently signfies keeps gets getting in the way. You can read Murray's point (or at least DD's point) that way too, and that's what I was getting at.

But I do agree that we're kinda drifting away from the ostensible thread topic.

Adam Beales (Pye Poudre), Friday, 5 January 2007 17:56 (nineteen years ago)

If we can all agree that "knowing nothing" is impossible, it might be fun to think of situations where you knew very little, or at least very little of the common narrative, and heard the music in a unique way because of your ignorance.

Tangentially related: Many years ago I made the acquaintance of a young woman from a small town in Brazil. She liked music but knew very little about American music or Western pop history. I lent her 20 or so CDs for her to check out, and the one that resonated most was the Velvet Underground & Nico. She had no idea who they were, didn't know the Warhol connection (it was just the CD, no cover), knew nothing of their importance or even what era they were from. But loved the music straight off. This was really interesting to me b/c it's almost impossible to hear VU like that, esp. if you're any kind of music geek, and they still "worked" for her the way all the journalists say they should.

Mark (MarkR), Friday, 5 January 2007 17:59 (nineteen years ago)

I usually avoid finding out about an artist, nowadays. If I live with some music long enough I'll start Googling out of curiosity, but my initial impulse is that I don't care/want to know about the backstory. If I found out that somebody whose music I liked is a total douche, it would definitely colour the way I hear them.

Boom Dershowitz (noodle vague), Friday, 5 January 2007 18:04 (nineteen years ago)

in practical terms, I do enjoy reading a book or watching a movie or listening to an album "cold," but if I love it, I feel an insatiable hunger to read everything ever written about it/find out about the creator's life/talk to everyone I know about it.

horseshoe (horseshoe), Friday, 5 January 2007 18:08 (nineteen years ago)

and actually, I have a bit of anxiety about reading a book that I know very little about. for some reason (related, I'm sure, to my silliness about literature), I find the idea of reading a bad book traumatic in a way watching a bad movie or listening to bad music isn't.

horseshoe (horseshoe), Friday, 5 January 2007 18:10 (nineteen years ago)

But how do you know the book's bad except by reading it?

Boom Dershowitz (noodle vague), Friday, 5 January 2007 18:18 (nineteen years ago)

I know, right? but, I feel the need for some protection in terms of critical opinion or someone I respect liking it when it comes to books. but this thread isn't about my neuroses, so...

horseshoe (horseshoe), Friday, 5 January 2007 18:19 (nineteen years ago)

I'm generally not interested in a "backstory" unless I'm already very interested in the music. Obv one's personal backstory is important in order to create music -- but doesn't that go w/out saying?

In any case, I have on more than one occasion been turned off music because of a backstory, probably more often than being turned on by one (tho it's certainly happened as well, and almost always an accident, as I very rarely go looking for a musical story when I don't already like the "outcome").

Dominique (dleone), Friday, 5 January 2007 18:27 (nineteen years ago)

Here's an example of knowing vs. not knowing the pitch.

In 1985, a friend lent me a tape with the Violent Femmes' "Hallowed Ground" on one side, and King Crimson's "Three of a Perfect Pair" on the other. I was unfamiliar with both bands at the time, being caught up in the genius of Adam Ant, Billy Joel, and The J. Geils Band. But I knew that this was "cool" music and that it somehow unified my cooler-than-me friends.

So, I listened to it one night on my shitty Amway clock-stereo, staring at the ceiling with my head hung off the end of the bed. I listened to it like three times. While I didn't like either side at first, I eventually began to see the genius in the King Crimson stuff - the layers and layers of interlocking rhythms and weird harmonies. It was like a light bulb flicking on in my head.

I HATED the Violent Femmes record. It seemed dreary and amateurish. The voices and arragements felt so flat and irritating that I could hardly bear to listen to them. After about 1.5 plays, I just fast-forwarded it so I could hear King Crimson again.

Next time I saw my cool friend and his cool friends and that whole unarguably cool gang, the guy who'd initially made the tape asked me what I thought. I said that the one side was really great, but country music shit on the other side was boring. Everyone stared at me in shock. I hadn't "gotten it."

This made me feel bad, and I spent quite a bit of time trying to figure out what there was to like about the Violent Femmes. It took a bit more work, but I liked their first record a whole lot better, and that eventually allowed me access to "Hallowed Ground". In the long run, I think it contributed more to my overall taste in music than King Crimson did, though both were revelatory to me at the time.

Would I ever have listened to either band if they hadn't been presented to me as cool? Would my musical tastes have evolved differently if I hadn't bowed to critical pressure and struggled to align myself with the Violent Femmes? Was I seeing things clearly that first night, listening to both bands in total ignorance, with only the vaguest idea what "prog" and "punk" might actually mean? And was it equally honest to decide, after I'd immersed myself in both bands and their respective cultural significances, that my initial impressions were off base?

Here's the kicker: I'll never really know. Knowledge makes unclouded perception impossible.

Adam Beales (Pye Poudre), Friday, 5 January 2007 18:54 (nineteen years ago)

When Miles Davis died, Brian Eno wrote in The Wire that it would be pretty difficult for a neophyte to engage his music on its' own terms, because anybody who has ever heard the name "Miles Davis" knows that pretty much everybody considered him to be this great genius. Backstories certainly contribute to a music's context, and it seems to me that people like us (generally speaking, those that devour music press as much as music itself) are more apt to hear *about* a certain record before we actually hear it. This dovetails with the recent NYTimes article about free will, and whether or not we, er, have it. I love Donuts (and donuts!), but I wonder what my appreciation level would be if I did not have this image of Dilla piecing it together from his hospital bed, racing against time. (Not to mention the glowing tribute quotes plastered on the cover, from Kanye and Pharrell).

xpost: nice story...it reminded me of the time I loaned a Lee Hazlewood CD to a friend...when I got it back, I stuck it in, and heard a drum machine with some misc. electonic bleeps...took me a few minutes (I was only half-paying attention) before I realized my friend had accidentally slipped the wrong CD in the Hazlewood jewel box...to this day, I imagine Lee Hazlewood as this semi-electronic country singer (even though of course I know better!) because of that brief-yet-potent association I had made...

hank (hank s), Friday, 5 January 2007 19:10 (nineteen years ago)

Total red herring. Backstory/context can't change the work, obviously, yet it can change you and how you perceive and evaluate the work. But consider this: what would your favorite album be if you were completely ignorant of all backstories?

M. V. (M.V.), Friday, 5 January 2007 19:39 (nineteen years ago)

context is so, so important. there are tons of records that i would otherwise despise if it weren't for the backstory and the thought process behind the work. also, not to get all nerdy and/or theoretical, BUT ...

can you really separate the backstory from the story? and can you separate the lives and experiences of the artists from the album's backstory? i suppose if just comes down to the question of what kind of level you give a shit about trying to understand the record and the process on.

backstory or no ... records are amazing, but they're definitely tied together.

Cameron Octigan (Cameron Octigan), Friday, 5 January 2007 20:30 (nineteen years ago)

I don't think I care much about backstory per se.

I was actually thinking this morning, as I was listening to Stereolab's Margerine Eclipse, that if it had been the first Stereolab record I'd ever heard, instead of like the 10th or whatever, I'd probably think it was fantastic instead of "oh yeah, this one's decent" -- and that's an interesting way in which context affects judgment.

But the fact that it's the first Stereolab record since Mary Hansen died means very little to me in terms of how I perceive the music.

jaymc (jaymc), Friday, 5 January 2007 20:36 (nineteen years ago)

really?...even "Dear Marge"?

hank (hank s), Friday, 5 January 2007 22:06 (nineteen years ago)

Nowadays, I mostly download a lot of stuff and put it all on shuffle in winamp. If some song catches my attention, I perhaps check the name, but probably forget it the next day. Perhaps I make an edit, just to get it right. Don´t really care about the auteur.

I´m so postmodern!

jon person (jon person), Friday, 5 January 2007 23:51 (nineteen years ago)

really?...even "Dear Marge"?

Is it about her? I generally have no idea what they're singing about: lol marxism etc.

jaymc (jaymc), Saturday, 6 January 2007 00:17 (nineteen years ago)

How do you figure out what to download?

Mark (MarkR), Saturday, 6 January 2007 01:10 (nineteen years ago)

Fuzzy search terms.

Ned Raggett (Ned), Saturday, 6 January 2007 01:17 (nineteen years ago)

Of course I often use discographies to find new music. I just meant I don´t really care about the individuals behind the music anymore. The Auteur-perspective. Just that. Music is obviously made and listened to in contexts.

Also my searchtermes is pretty fuzzy when it comes to music. It´s all good.

jon person (jon person), Saturday, 6 January 2007 10:58 (nineteen years ago)

Does anyone know anyone who listens to Joy Division without knowing the backstory? (I sometimes wonder what I would think about their music if I didn't know)

StanM (StanM), Saturday, 6 January 2007 11:27 (nineteen years ago)

Because, well, that's what the music was made for, wasn't it? They didn't construct this whole "let's do this and then this and then Ian, you get yourself a copy of The Idiot and..."

StanM (StanM), Saturday, 6 January 2007 11:28 (nineteen years ago)

But it's easy enough to imagine somebody coming to Joy Div's music without knowing the story, especially if they weren't listening to them in 1979. In fact surely most new music gets heard this way - hear it first, look up the backstory later. Or don't look it up as the case may be.

Boom Dershowitz (noodle vague), Saturday, 6 January 2007 12:46 (nineteen years ago)

"hey this is fun! Paris Hilton, huh? That her real name?"

m coleman (lovebug starski), Saturday, 6 January 2007 13:25 (nineteen years ago)

Yeah, there's also a lot of examples where you hear the story first and only then you discover the backmusic.

(recent example: "... but get this, right, they're NOT FROM BARCELONA at all, they're from Sweden and there are 29 of them! harharhar! Here's a song.")

StanM (StanM), Saturday, 6 January 2007 13:30 (nineteen years ago)

reminds me, of course, of The Polyphonic Spree, who instantly sound better once you know that they wear matching gowns...(and they sound infinitely better if you imagine they are some sort of cult, instead of, well, a bunch of folks)...

hank (hank s), Saturday, 6 January 2007 14:30 (nineteen years ago)


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