Ah, but surely it *is* worth starting up your own download only MP3 label.. umm, right?

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It must be so easy!!

1) No actual manufacturing beyond (and limited to) the creation of the music!

2) No signing away yr rights to tha Maaaaaaaaaan. Anarchy! The means of production in yr hands!!!

3) Punter gets to hear of your track and d/l's it! After paying the requisite 49p or thereabouts!

umm.. paying it to the d/l agency, right? yr i-tunes, emusic, HMVDigital, um, um, who naturally take a cut...

But how do they even get the tracks there in the first place?

Do they have to sign over a portion of their rights? Or is it limited to paying some one-off hosting fee? or is it per track?

Oh noes! There seem to be either More Mennnnn, or just fewer of them!

Um, so how does it all go down?

mark grout (mark grout), Monday, 8 January 2007 16:38 (nineteen years ago)

all my extant music is floating around in itunes,rhapsody,napster etc..without my knowledge or knowledge about th royalty rate.so this thread may be a learning experience for me.

dan bunnybrain (dan bunnybrain), Monday, 8 January 2007 16:41 (nineteen years ago)

Definitely worth doing. all record labels or large or small should be doing it provided they can sell enough in the first place to be able to maintain it.

and there's a big enough gap in the market for a site selling higher-than-192 and FLAC by a wide range of chart acts past and present. Amazon or whoever should probably be doing it already.

reverto levidensis (blueski), Monday, 8 January 2007 16:45 (nineteen years ago)

obv. a legit allofmp3 would cover the latter (hurry up already)

reverto levidensis (blueski), Monday, 8 January 2007 16:46 (nineteen years ago)

this lot are trying that :
http://www.svcrecords.co.uk/
so far things have been lukewarm despite some cracking releases (both Greatest Ape/Feedle were fantastic)

mark e (mark e), Monday, 8 January 2007 16:53 (nineteen years ago)

ooh, i know feedle - he is awesome and an awesome bloke too!

wogan lenin (dog latin), Monday, 8 January 2007 17:19 (nineteen years ago)

god man, what the hell are these threads? dont you ever stop?

Storefront Church (688), Monday, 8 January 2007 17:22 (nineteen years ago)

hidden shoals is a NZ based label that is doing this to some success. although I think a number of the thigns they've put out went on to be released by trad labels.

i'm torn b/w even bothering to shop my own album around to any more labels; pressed cds seem like such an environmental waste.

kyle (akmonday), Monday, 8 January 2007 19:01 (nineteen years ago)

Guess no-one knows that much about it.

What do you say? "Hello, iTunes website, I'd like to add my self-financed album to your racks?"

Or do you have to be EMI and sign a high-profile 'agreement' etc?

mark grout (mark grout), Tuesday, 9 January 2007 09:48 (nineteen years ago)

what's the smallest label iTunes carries material from?

reverto levidensis (blueski), Tuesday, 9 January 2007 10:40 (nineteen years ago)

serviceav stuff is on iTunes
- and they're are pretty damn small indie label with a very small catalogue at the moment (infantjoy/sarah nixey)

mark e (mark e), Tuesday, 9 January 2007 12:07 (nineteen years ago)

I'm going to do it...

iTunes carries some tiny labels, but they don't deal with them directly. Usually labels sign up with aggregators, a popular one is Ioda:

http://www.iodalliance.com/

Small labels sign up with the aggregator who becomes like a digital distributor.

You can also deal direct with other services, or offer downloads yourself, though to do that requires setting up a website and taking credit card orders and those hassles.

Also see:

http://www.snocap.com/

We hope to act as an aggregator ourselves to some degree, hooking up with likeminded reissue labels. You'd be adding another middleman, but idealy one with a vested interest i promoting your music, and thus selling it. A service like Ioda may get your music on iTunes, but you still have to find the ways to get people to go there and download it.

Dan Selzer (Dan Selzer), Tuesday, 9 January 2007 15:10 (nineteen years ago)

and iTunes really isn't/shouldn't be the be all end all given the limitations (DRM, bitrate etc.). Dan I wonder if you should try and get on Bleep (my favourite model) - 50% to the artist/label apparently.

reverto levidensis (blueski), Tuesday, 9 January 2007 15:14 (nineteen years ago)

What do you say? "Hello, iTunes website, I'd like to add my self-financed album to your racks?"

Yeah, pretty much. If you use Tunecore, you can get any recording you have the rights to on iTunes (as well as eMusic, Napster, Rhapsody etc). It's cheap, easy and you will in fact get paid.

Roy Kasten (Roy Kasten), Tuesday, 9 January 2007 15:28 (nineteen years ago)

Ah right.

Also, 50% split, while being more favourable than the standard 'hard product' record deal, still seems quite high. If that's a good split, what are the 'bad' ones like?

(perjorative terms there, I know. Still trying to get a handle on what's involved there)

mark grout (mark grout), Tuesday, 9 January 2007 15:31 (nineteen years ago)

We'll be on most major services. There's like 20 or 30. iTunes is the bulk of sales, but there's a lot more...eMusic, beatpoart, bleep, audio lunchbox, Microsoft Music, Rhapsody, sony connect etc. Plus many stores are starting their own direct download services...Rough Trade did and at least one of the major NYC stores is next year. It's possible, if you're a small, hip label, to do what labels without exclusive distributors do, which is make the deals yourself with whichever outlet you can. But I think iTunes is still pretty important if you want to get people who are new to iPods to download your stuff.

Dan Selzer (Dan Selzer), Tuesday, 9 January 2007 15:40 (nineteen years ago)

With iTunes, Tunecore pays $0.70 per song downloaded and $7.00 per album with 11 or more songs sold in its entirety.

You have to pay an initial set up fee of around $25 per album (depending on the number of tracks you have and the number of digital stores you subscribe to) and then $7.98 flat fee per year every year after that to maintain the album in the database. The rates for eMusic and Napster etc are more byzantine, but go to the FAQ on Tunecore for details. It's a pretty good deal over all. I have a couple albums on iTunes via Tunecore and have been happy with the service so far.

Roy Kasten (Roy Kasten), Tuesday, 9 January 2007 15:41 (nineteen years ago)

Right! Thanks for the info! Who knows, maybe I'll make a 'virtual release' later this year. Watch spaces other than this one.

mark grout (mark grout), Tuesday, 9 January 2007 15:46 (nineteen years ago)

tunecore's thing about charging you more money for each store is weird. Ioda has no money up front, it's more like you're signing a deal. Far as I know...we're not using them so that's just what I've gleamed.

Dan Selzer (Dan Selzer), Tuesday, 9 January 2007 15:48 (nineteen years ago)

Do any of these people deal with the artist directly, rather than the label? Or would I have to form mine own lable to deal with them?

Do Not Feed The Crush (kate), Tuesday, 9 January 2007 15:51 (nineteen years ago)

I guess it's down to 'taxable income' and limited companies, all that (once again)...

mark grout (mark grout), Tuesday, 9 January 2007 15:56 (nineteen years ago)

It seems like getting your songs on iTunes isn't the hard part of starting a label, regardless of distribution. I mean, isn't the hard part the promotion, marketing, lining up the right clubs to play in, all that "hey look at us, not at them! NOT AT THEM!" stuff the hard part?

Also, apparently Cordless, http://www.cordless.com/, is one of your new-fangled interweb-only labels--but with a twist! (It's run by a major. It's too late, run for the hills!) That said, I'm going to skip one more generation of technology--I'm going to go straight to wireless distribution. Hellsyeah baby! Me and my boombox and 1-block radius FM broadcaster, driving around Manhattan 'til everyone's heard the word. Tune your radios to 88.1 or whatever frequency hasn't been taken up by the man.

Sorry for the rambling post, I'm all hopped up on sugar.

Jubalique (Jubalique), Tuesday, 9 January 2007 15:57 (nineteen years ago)

well, if the host is taking 50%, shouldn't they be at least helping in the promotion stakes?

mark grout (mark grout), Tuesday, 9 January 2007 16:01 (nineteen years ago)

tunecore's thing about charging you more money for each store is weird

Yeah, but it's nominal. .99 per store--and that's just for the initial upload of the album. You're not charged per store after that--just the 8 bucks per year to maintain. They do count iTunes Japan, EU, Australia as separate stores, which is annoying, but understandable, I think. They don't have all the stores Dan lists above, so I guess if you want max exposure, another service might be better.

I can only speak to my experience with Tunecore, which has been very good, but you don't have to form a label to get a CD into iTunes. You just have to be 18 years old or older and have the rights to the recordings. Apparently you can even upload cover songs, if you've already properly secured the rights through Harry Fox or whoever.

Roy Kasten (Roy Kasten), Tuesday, 9 January 2007 16:14 (nineteen years ago)

the only promotion you can hope for from the host is they MAY do a little review, say "hey check out this track!" but what are the odds? eMusic has been nice to us with this. I always think of this as being the equivelent of stores placing your CDs at the end of rows on display or in the listening station...but even that is usually paid for by the distributor!

Dan Selzer (Dan Selzer), Tuesday, 9 January 2007 16:16 (nineteen years ago)

Bleep are odd in that they'll do a really enthusiastic blurb for selected material if they deem it particularly worthwhile/seminal but much of the catalogue remains undescribed which is a shame (often there are no pointers as to what the music's like unless you know the artist or label enough already. despite this i have found a lot of great stuff on there over the last 18 months just by browsing for an hour or so every few weeks).

reverto levidensis (blueski), Tuesday, 9 January 2007 16:22 (nineteen years ago)

wonder what the monthly bandwidth bills are like (for both itunes and smaller sites)

reverto levidensis (blueski), Tuesday, 9 January 2007 16:26 (nineteen years ago)

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/entertainment/6248535.stm

Koopa : "Beg Steal and Borrow"

mark grout (mark grout), Wednesday, 10 January 2007 15:29 (eighteen years ago)

> often there are no pointers as to what the music's like unless you know the artist or label enough already

or you could just listen to it!

My Koogy Weighs A Ton (koogs), Wednesday, 10 January 2007 15:56 (eighteen years ago)

it would be nice to get descriptions of it instead of having to listen in order to find out only to not like.

reverto levidensis (blueski), Wednesday, 10 January 2007 16:05 (eighteen years ago)

they should think about allowing customers to rate material too - inc. albums track by track. being able to see 'most downloaded' and other stats would also be nice.

reverto levidensis (blueski), Wednesday, 10 January 2007 16:06 (eighteen years ago)

Dan Selzer will you sign me?

J. Grizzle (trainsmoke), Wednesday, 10 January 2007 16:14 (eighteen years ago)

Acute Records is primarily a reissue label.

Dan Selzer (Dan Selzer), Wednesday, 10 January 2007 16:21 (eighteen years ago)

so talk to me in 20 years!

Dan Selzer (Dan Selzer), Wednesday, 10 January 2007 16:30 (eighteen years ago)

(assuming he gets a first release now)

mark grout (mark grout), Wednesday, 10 January 2007 16:36 (eighteen years ago)

DIY!

Dan Selzer (Dan Selzer), Wednesday, 10 January 2007 16:37 (eighteen years ago)

so you are not secondarily a label that signs people with little music ability that have a darkhorse shot at being hailed as 'the next big thing?'

shame. 20 years it is...

J. Grizzle (trainsmoke), Wednesday, 10 January 2007 16:38 (eighteen years ago)

(assuming he gets a first release now)

if you shop at Albertsons, you might already be the unwitting victim of my strains. And now i feel so much shame that I don't want to continue this line of discussion.

J. Grizzle (trainsmoke), Wednesday, 10 January 2007 16:39 (eighteen years ago)

secondarily, we'll likely be releasing some new stuff from people involved with projects we're reissuing, because we can.

Dan Selzer (Dan Selzer), Wednesday, 10 January 2007 16:46 (eighteen years ago)

We actually set up our own label and released a 7" last year, as well as having it to download (at itunes prices) on our own site. We completely failed to find a distributor who would take the record, and so lost money on every copy due to the postage. What the hey, it was fun.

Anyway, we tried and failed to get it onto itunes and people were kind of resistant to buying it from our site. I guess the kind of people who come to the shows and so on are used to getting stuff FREE on myspace or whatever. I think being on itunes would have given us the veneer of properness that might have persuaded more people to part with their 79p. Maybe.

So ta for those links. May try again later in the year with a download only thing.

Jamie T Smith (Jamie T Smith), Wednesday, 10 January 2007 17:04 (eighteen years ago)


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