Zappa and Steely Dan

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I am too incompetent to properly operate the ILM search to answer this question, although I'm sure it's been posed, namely:

Can anyone find interesting discussion on the internets of the mutual influences of Frank Zappa and Steely Dan? Listening, as I have today, through 3 or 4 Steely Dan albums makes me realize how similar their musical figures as well as sense of humor was to some of Zappa's work from a few years previous (namely, late 60's and early 70's). I found this Fagen interview: http://nymag.com/arts/popmusic/profiles/16453/ in which he says:

"You once said Zappa was the only model for the comedy of Steely Dan.
The only comic rock and roll I remember was Frank Zappa, really. The Fugs were comic also, but their music was so primitive. I remember the Fugs used to play free in Tompkins Square Park in the sixties, and at one point they were really the kings of the Lower East Side."

But that is neither interesting nor insightful. Slightly more interesting is the Zappa comment saying something about how Steely Dan is "downer surrealism". Anyway, I'm more interested in the musical relationships; compare, let's say, Zappa's "Blessed Relief" to pretty much anything from Gaucho or Aja. Even if not identical, the textures are simliar.

DISCUSS.

― Chris Wright (DrFunktronic), Friday, 12 January 2007 21:12 (nineteen years ago)

surprising that Fagen would overlook the Coasters in comedy-rock, especially given how indebted to R&B Steely Dan were/are.

― Make a Beck Song #1 (M Matos), Friday, 12 January 2007 21:17 (nineteen years ago)

zappa references "ricki don't lose that number" in a song, i forget which--might be live

― cutty (mcutt), Friday, 12 January 2007 21:53 (nineteen years ago)

i would say their approaches to humor are almost completely opposite-dan 'humor' is pretty fucking subtle whereas zappa, not so much. and musically, i don't know.. I guess both products contain over 10% jazz

― bangelo (bangelo), Friday, 12 January 2007 22:18 (nineteen years ago)

t/s - titties and beer vs. barrytown

― M@tt He1geson (Matt Helgeson), Friday, 12 January 2007 22:20 (nineteen years ago)

and personally, dan's 'humor' makes me love them all the more while zappa's humor makes it occasionally hard for me to love him, though i do

― bangelo (bangelo), Friday, 12 January 2007 22:20 (nineteen years ago)

Zappa's humour makes it hard for me to listen to his vocal stuff full stop. If anything tho, FZ comes across as more earnest than the Dan, for better or worse.

― Clothing the Gotterdammerung Doors (noodle vague), Friday, 12 January 2007 22:24 (nineteen years ago)

I see the points made about Zappa humor vs. Dan humor, and I suppose that they are correct on one level. However, I would say that while Zappa's humor per se is more blatant, he is still using it in some cases to make the same sorts of subtle L.A.-culture-critique type satire. Two levels of humor, see, the humor in itself and the humor-in-use-of-humor-as-lyrical-device humor, if you will. Sense v. reference. &c.

― Chris Wright (DrFunktronic), Friday, 12 January 2007 23:39 (nineteen years ago)

Zappa I liked for their humor when since I was 14, and, I believe, their music got me into more "sophisticated" jazzy stuff eventually. I hated Aja at first (listened to my dad's copy), but repeated listenings of various more complex artists drew me back into Dan when I was older, 19 or 20. At which age I was finally able to comprehend how technically amazing it is. The lyrics seemed impenetrable at first, but, you know, internet and stuff... I sorted it out and now dig on the Dan even more than Zappa, which I still kinda like, but in a more "ahhh I remember that lyric.. Heh.." way.

― Andi Headphones (Andi Headphones), Saturday, 13 January 2007 04:00 (nineteen years ago)

Zappa and Steely Dan both used the studio as an instrument in itself. Considering all of the L.A. area studio musicians that played at one time for one or the other, there should be at least one person that did a session with both.

― Earl Nash (earlnash), Saturday, 13 January 2007 04:19 (nineteen years ago)

Paul Humphry played drums on Hot Rats and Aja.

Vinnie Colaiuta plays on various Zappa albums and Two Against Nature.

― Matt Olken (Moodles), Saturday, 13 January 2007 04:47 (nineteen years ago)

five years pass...

I've been casually listening to Found Studio Tracks and I'm hearing all sorts of borrowings I've never noticed before (but particularly Zappa and Neil Young). Specifically I thought I heard Zappa in some of the vocal delivery, which may go back to humor. Maybe it's a smart-alecky stance that is the similarity.

Just for reference, I don't like Zappa much and like Neil Young quite a bit.

"Caves of Altamura" is a good example of one of the tracks that screams Neil Young to me (even ignoring the title, which sounds way more Young than Steely Dan). The chorus goes off in a different direction though and sounds more typically SD and not at all Neil to me.

― _Rudipherous_, Friday, 13 April 2012 22:44 (thirteen years ago)

two months pass...

Listening to some Frank Zappa this week, it really hit me that this Zappa song "Uncle Remus" reminded me quite a bit of Steely Dan. I can hear Fagen hear it my head.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Y72cWf59Alo

― earlnash, Wednesday, 13 June 2012 02:44 (thirteen years ago)

I can hear Fagen singing it in my head.

― earlnash, Wednesday, 13 June 2012 02:44 (thirteen years ago)

eight years pass...

^
Uncle Remus for the first time

― calstars, Sunday, 18 April 2021 13:13 (four years ago)

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