Amazing, depressing theory regarding musical taste

And why did I like Flying Saucer Attack? Because of "European Sun" and the solo in "Run Run Run," thats' why.

This is not what I read in the argument up top. Gut Rot's friend seems to think that Tales of Captain Black is, for you, a pale shadow of Sketches of Spain that you only listen to because it gives you a tiny fragment of the same thrill. This is an argument that could only be taken seriously by someone who hasn't heard both records, IMO.

Well, sure! Wouldn't dream of disputing that one thing leads to the next. The part of the theory I can't accept goes like this:

The average record collector only truly LOVES about ten or twenty records. With every other record he buys, he is searching in vain for the qualities he liked about the original record(s). He may LIKE these other records, but he will never recapture the feelings of the first time he's heard, say, Highway 61.

In other words, the one thing is the only thing that counts, the rest is just wishful thinking and pallid imitation. It's like the Great Man theory of history applied to musical taste.

Ned, I've noticed that we share a lot of the same favorite albums - especially from the 90s. These two records, Rio in particular, were huge to me as a child. Do you believe there is some connection between these and the Shoegazey hits of the last decade? Please enlighten me.

I do think there are certain magical times in a record collector's life when there's a lot of discovery taking place. But if you keep up with stuff, you get consistently rewarded. I felt as fulfilled by my Thomas Brinkmann phase of 1999-2000 as I did by my Beatles phase of 1980-81. Therefore I dispute the notion that these touchstones are all confined to the past. But if you gave me maybe 50 or 100 picks I could live with that as far as the stuff that *really* matters to me currently.

Eh, not really. At least, not overtly. My argument for their influence on me is as the first concrete faces/names/songs I had in terms of loud, guitar-driven (but not solely guitar-led) pop, with oddly intertwined roots but different reference points (Roxy/Chic vs. Sweet/Zep, with Bowie a key shared avatar -- as were the Sex Pistols!). In that I liked MBV as an eventual end result from thinking that feedback and riffs were fine things, yes, but I honestly don't hear the kind of on-point gloss and punch in their music that Duran and Def Leppard at their height perfected.

I don't agree. I mean, yeah, we all have our fave albums from way back when that shaped our tastes, but if I'd stopped buying records after 1991 (to name a year at random), I'd be mighty bored with the same old records, knowwhatImean?

Besides, if I can't recapture the feeling of some record I bought when I was younger, that must mean I'm currently listening to a bad record!

I have no prob recapturing the feeling. I DO have a "more records than time" issue, but that hasn't toned down my enthusiasm any.

The astute will note that I admit upthread I am also skeptical, but the facts are there. I buy an Akarma or Radioactive reissue because I'm hoping it sounds at least a little like Sabbath, The Doors, Blue Cheer, or the Grateful Dead. I buy modern free jazz albums when I know that none of them will ever hold a candle to even ten minutes of the Holy Ghost box set, which is perhaps one of my favorite releases of all time.

So, while I'm not verifying, per se, Haikunym, I can attest to the plausibility of this theory somewhat. In fact, it is only my optimism that prevents me from buying it completely. Tonight, each time I tried to think of something I've bought in the last ten years that wasn't somehow reverent to another band's legacy, I was invariably foiled.

To be fair, I'm drunk, and half watching All The Right Moves. But still.

I don't. The appeal when I heard the Dutch Outsiders for the first time or the Monks or any number of groups wasn't that it tapped into the initial experience of being a Rolling Stones fan or something.

sounds like a very romanticized, teenage view of aesthetic experience to me.

vahid - it's hardly romanticized. It IS depressing. Amazing may have been a bit much, but if you buy the theory, it IS amazing in a 'now I have to drink poison' kind of way

hi roger

An aesthetic that had appeal on its own terms.

And I do suppose that much of what I listen to germinated from that focal point, and that you could connect that to my early childhood fascination with The Beatles' sound (both being very melodic and tuneful guitar-flavored pop groups), and that my latter infatuation with The Velvet Underground & Nico (purchased in large part to my Andy Warhol fanhood, which in turn was influenced by my Duran fandom) ended up not only influencing my adoration of the post-punk genre but also was in and of itself influenced by my early childhood infatuation with the Rolling Stones. Which makes me think -- maybe my current musical loves are more influenced by my "raised on oldies radio" childhood than I previously thought... ? I suppose it couldn't be helped. The patterns you establish early on usually do end up popping up throughout the rest of your life. But at the same time I AM divorced from that world in that I DO quite often tend to love synth-based, guitar-flavored pop artists, largely from the '80s, that rely on Fairlight synths and Linn drums, and that is I think the antithesis of what made up the world of '60s music. Hm. Now I've got to think about this one....

And Ned, thank you for giving critical credence to Duran Duran. Your posts help bury the rotting corpse that is the old stereotype of people only being into that band because of their physical appearance. I'm glad you openly acknowledge that early influence.

Maybe I won't read that book after all. Sounds like a glorified ILM thread.

i collect fania allstars records. i don't connect w/ them on an emotional level. but i do connect w/ disco records, very strongly. on the other hand, i have a strong intellectual interest in the culture of NY of the 1970s and in the processes of assimilation that happen in american society. i also appreciate the visual and literary culture of fania stuff, track titles, album covers, etc. when my family moved to the US from iran we lived in flushing/queens for about six months. if we'd stayed there instead of moving to california i imagine my life would have been quite different, and so that's another level on which i enjoy owning fania records, reading about fania, looking at album covers and reading liner notes - even if i don't actually *listen* to the music as often as i think about fania.

your friend would say that all of that isn't as important as the lump in my throat i get when i hear "we are family".

that's what i mean by romanticism, this idea that pure, unthought, unsullied emotion is necessarily better than intellectual or other kicks.

http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/ASIN/0525949690/bookstorenow600-20

er, on the This Is Your Brain On Music book.

"Arrogance: Levitin and Joni Mitchell discuss how the harmonies in her music can be interpreted in various ways (which is why Jaco Pastorius's fluid bass-lines fit so well). "This, then, we figured out at dinner that night, was one of the secrets of why Joni's music sounds unlike anyone else's" (p. 211). Even if this were true, a little modesty would serve Levitin well."

But back on topic, I always thought having to hear a bunch of junk was part of the deal if you want to find the great stuff.

"James Brown, Star Time
If you don't already understand why James Brown is amazing, my telling you won't help."

"The Killers, Hot Fuss
Hot and what all the noiz is about. The Killers have been hailed as the next Nirvana and they are that raw, that powerful, and that big-sounding. The soaring melodies smash in a head-on collision with neo-punk guitar chunking, and overlayed with Brandon Flowers' pellucid, crystalline voice."

I was exposed to show tunes, classical music, and The Doors when I was growing up. That pretty much explains my musical tastes.

Combining this theory with the 12 y.o. thing, I'm trying get back the experience of listening to D.C. Talk every time I download a Lil Wayne mixtape.

The thing is that there are personal reasons why particular music is significant for you as a twelve-year-old and those reasons can still be significant to you later on! That doesn't mean that particular artists or records that you liked as a child formed this framework in your mind to which you subconsciously subject everything you hear as an adult.

Scott, I think the problem isn't that there's a dearth of public interest there, especially in the post-2001 "fab five" reunion era, when fans seem to be coming out of the woodwork to fall all over themselves in fawning. I think the problem is that there's still not enough of the "right" kinds of people there, people who are either my contemporaries or who would be in a position to change the historical judgement rendered upon the group. Steve Malins is a good start, but that's all it is now. I still feel the need to try to justify my fandom of this particular artist amongst the Serious Music People set and I still feel a huge disjunction between myself and people of my generation in terms of where my pop cultural allegiances lie.

Anyway, all of that is for another thread....

I don't know what point I'm trying to make, except that I think this theory is terrible, most of my album purchases are based on random whims, and I generally feel no real need to draw connections between the albums I love.

Daniel Levitin suggested musical taste is fixed around age 20 iirc?

The average music lover, on the other hand, collects each and every record that moves him.

I don't know that there are more than 20-30 records that I adore from beginning to end, without reservation or doubt. Records that I not only love the sound of, but that I think about often (even if I haven't heard them in years), constantly compare other music to, know every note and lyric of, and relate to in a very personal way. These aren't the only records I love, of course, but they're a kind of musical template that was written into me by my juvenile enthusiasms.

And juvenile is key. Even though in some cases I've grown rather tired of these records, they remain hardwired into me because I encountered and loved them when I was young -- when my tastes were still unformed, when things I've since grown jaded about could still surprise and transform me.

Not saying that I don't keep encountering "all-time favorite" records, but I have to admit that they're quite a bit rarer than they once were...

It's normal behavior to look for what's similar to things you like, but it's not always a case of declining returns. I'd been listening to punk since I was 12, but didn't hear L.A.M.F. until I was 24. It completely reorganized my thinking, leading me to Television, Jonathan Richman, and the whole mid 70s punk scene, which provided a completely different set of listening experiences than Black Flag, the Sex Pistols and Bad Brains had provided when I was 14. And if my responses were less passionate, it's only because I was 24 instead of 14.

And as a longtime fan of noise/punk/metal and other extreme music, there are plenty of unprecedented tastes I've developed like tropicalia (I don't like The Beatles, or ironic kitsch) and Joanna Newsom (I can't stand twee stuff or medieval bullshit).

If you're depressed about the limits of your record collection, get random. Go buy an Ultramagnetic MCs or George Jones record. There are still plenty of bands/genres I have yet to tackle, and that's exciting to me, not depressing.

yea its like saying i seek out new lovers to replicate my first time!!!