Is there a uniquely British form of music?

US = immigrant nation, trading nation, successor empire = not much chance of a unique music either. American music made of European and African bits, even in insular communities.

Also, what Scot said.

None of this means that these nations haven't made/continue to make music that could only be made in that specific place.

The appropriations, borrowings and mistranslations are what makes it all interesting.

Genuinely unique musical forms are more likely to be found in more remote places: yodelling and the alpenhorn in Swiss mountain valleys, y'all.

Also, folk vs mass culture vs the auteur - has massively complicated the relationship between culture and place, innit.

Must go.

Personally, I have always found it much more interesting and fun to merely enjoy the interplay and exchange of musical ideas amongst nations, particularly the US and the UK.

Oh, small point but the Jimi Hendrix Experience were basically an English band.

hahahhahaha....can we count The Fall as American now cuz Mark E's new band is from LA?

Anyway, hopping all the back up to Kogan arguing that "rock" (as opposed to r'n'r) is a British invention, I'm usually inclined to agree. From upthread:

the beatles, the stones, led zep, sabbath, queen, the who, pink floyd ... none of those acts "sound" British. All of their music is built heavily on (black) American artforms

And of course the difference between most of those acts and their rock'n'roll counterparts is that they wind up folding in some form of what we'd now call "pop" -- most obviously, the Beatles add the kind of music hall / light-classical discussed above (and Queen do it a million times more, and the Who do something similar in terms of structure and form, and so on and so on).

I think it's a little funny that we're all taught to always think "rock bands just play a form of black American music," because while this is true and important in terms of background and credit, the fact is that within a few years, popular UK rock bands did not exactly sound that much like Chuck Berry, leave alone Muddy Waters. The line of descent was clear enough, and rock would always keep going back to those sources, but for the most part they'd be as different from one another as any other two small camps we bother calling distinct -- Queen and Chuck Berry are at least as different as the things we'd separate as "2-step" and "grime."

(So I guess we have to be careful about talking about big-picture forms of music, like "jazz" or "rock," and specific forms of music, like bop, grime, punk, etc.)

I don't really care for it, though - the chord progressions aren't complex enough [JUST KIDDING].

Fairport were obv v. influenced by the West Coast psych groups like Jefferson Airplane, the Dead, Moby Grape etc - but who else was? Certainly not Pentangle, certainly not Steeleye Span, certainly not Mr. Fox etc etc etc

as i mentioned, there is tape / musique concrete stuff that predates the radiophonic workshop, but i doubt they had access to it at the time. maybe they did.

Of course they had access to it! They worked for the BBC!!

(dons balaclava)

http://www.galeon.com/allmusic/caratulas/b/Blur_-_Moderm_Life_Is_Rubbish_-_back.jpg

http://www.musiq.pl/images/37/Blur_Sunday_Sunday_Popular_Community_Song_CD.jpg

don't forget the Merry-Go-Round...Fairport's version of Time Will Show the Wiser is awesome.

Tom D. I'll bow to yr superior knowledge of Brit folk etc, tho I do distinctly recall a recent int. w/ John Renbourn where he talked abt Pentangle's relationship to, and appreciation for, American rock. As I once mentioned on an old Dead thread, a fairly clued up pal of mine once mistook a long Dark Star jam for a Pentangle alb, so I think there is some shared style/taste in there somewhere. It's also my impression that a lot of the 2nd gen Brit Folk Rock recs - things like Mike Heron's first solo alb, or the Barry Dransfield (sp) rec - were similarly informed by US psych rock.

Of course Scott and Hstencil are right abt geography and originality and geology and so on - but sometimes its find to be an amateur geologist, digging away at the crust

And if there was ever an American music it was afro-latin-inflected march music played by the decendants of African slaves on European instruments in turn-of-the-century funeral processions in an ex-French city.

*slaps forehead*

Whoah. I have a feeling this is all going to go back to the Arabs and Turks.

I can relate to this.

I mentioned this above, but tell that to the Navajo, etc.

Scritti Politti - "Dr. Abernathy" - listen to the beat, that particular timing between the beats, the tempo. You'll find it's a rather common hallmark of quintessential British pop music, that tempo. Then take note of the brilliant, catchy tune, with several different tributaries of complexity. Americans can only do that kind of thing as pastiche, and they're never as good.

Sure. A lot of traditional native American music found in the reservations, National parks and Amazonas.

They certainly weren't anticipating Twisted Sister.

Leona Lewis and her whole Mariah Carey circa-1990 schtick is so annoying and totally proves my point about u guys just producing knockoffs.

I do sort of like Leona though

I just felt like bumping this thread

I would love it if you were right, but way too many ILM'ers are way too into hip-hop for you to claim they are only knocking off American music.

Personally, I think most American music sucks though, unless it was made in California in the 60s.

Charles Wright & the Watts 103rd Street Rhythm Band much, Geir?

I didn't say all Californian 60s music was good.

George Formby

-- Fetchin Bones (Fetchin Bones), Thursday, 25 January 2007 03:23 (1 year ago) Bookmark Link

^^^This. When Americans start making joints as hot as "Mr Wu's A Window Cleaner Now", we'll talk.

Umm, you do know how and why Leona Lewis is famous right? Its a bit of a stretch to claim her as 'representative' of anything. She isn't even representative of reality TV pop, really (ie people actually buy her records).