The voice without gender

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Hahaha I feel like I'm starting a paper at Vassar!

I really enjoy the female voice. A lot of my girlfriends seem to have a need to listen to the male voice - it's like reassuring or something. What voices have made it without a clear gender, and is this something people respond to well? Or do we need one or the other?

I'm trying to think... I'm just coming up with Prince...

― surmounter (rra123), Tuesday, 23 January 2007 22:41 (nineteen years ago)

Comus!

― chaki (chaki), Tuesday, 23 January 2007 22:45 (nineteen years ago)

prince's voice doesn't have even a hint of female in it. his music might, but not his voice. that's 100 percent male falsetto.

― fact checking cuz (fcc), Tuesday, 23 January 2007 22:47 (nineteen years ago)

I used to think that the voice singing "Hello, It's Me" was female, not Todd Rundgren.

― Tripmaker (SDWitzm), Tuesday, 23 January 2007 22:50 (nineteen years ago)

point taken fact.

― surmounter (rra123), Tuesday, 23 January 2007 22:51 (nineteen years ago)

it's still a play on gender tho, i think.

― surmounter (rra123), Tuesday, 23 January 2007 22:51 (nineteen years ago)

i mean you could say that simply because it's high, it sounds female.

― surmounter (rra123), Tuesday, 23 January 2007 22:51 (nineteen years ago)

Q Lazzarus, Robert Owen

― Dr. Alicia D. Titsovich (sexyDancer), Tuesday, 23 January 2007 22:52 (nineteen years ago)

i thought the dude from belle & sebastion was a girl for at least a year or 2 when the first lp came out.

― speculator (speculator), Tuesday, 23 January 2007 22:54 (nineteen years ago)

motherfuckin JIMMY SCOTT people

― Shakey Mo Collier (Shakey Mo Collier), Tuesday, 23 January 2007 22:54 (nineteen years ago)

I used to think Alison Moyet was male until she started putting out solo records.

― Saxby D. Elder (Saxby D. Elder), Tuesday, 23 January 2007 22:55 (nineteen years ago)

but how did that make you feel, speculator, to find out that she was a he? did that make you uncomfortable? hehe

― surmounter (rra123), Tuesday, 23 January 2007 22:56 (nineteen years ago)

umm.. i don;t know.. that was like 10 years ago.. i guess it was a little confusing.

― speculator (speculator), Tuesday, 23 January 2007 22:59 (nineteen years ago)

haha OTM about Alison Moyet!!!

― Shakey Mo Collier (Shakey Mo Collier), Tuesday, 23 January 2007 22:59 (nineteen years ago)

tbh I think the male falsetto should be considered an entirely separate category/style of singing from what surmounter's asking about

― Shakey Mo Collier (Shakey Mo Collier), Tuesday, 23 January 2007 23:00 (nineteen years ago)

I don't believe that "the voice without gender" exists.

Even if a voice seems gender-neutral, I always try to settle the question. Sometimes it's unconscious: I'll just unthinkingly assume that the singer is either male or female, often incorrectly (like when I first heard Royal Trux, and didn't realize that a chick was singing at least half the time). I think the default gender is male.

When I'm conscious of the fact that I don't know the singer's gender, I get confused. It bugs me. I try to find a "solution". It's as though my brain can't properly process speech unless I first assign a gender tag to the speaker.

When I was in my teens and twenties, I preferred male voices in music. Most female singers seemed too mannered to me. Now that I'm older, it's the other way around. Dunno why.

― french for cane break (Pye Poudre), Tuesday, 23 January 2007 23:05 (nineteen years ago)

I used to think Nina Simone was a man when I was younger, the guy from the Delays sounds exactly a girl. Otm with jimmy scott.

― from The ends of your fingers (prosper.strummer.), Tuesday, 23 January 2007 23:12 (nineteen years ago)

death vessel/joel thibodeau is another obvious one in the same manner as jimmy scott. but those are just guys born with high voices.

i'm more interested in singers who consciously seek out the other side of the gender line, whether it's robert plant trying to sound like a chick, or, say, koko taylor trying to sing like a dude.

― fact checking cuz (fcc), Tuesday, 23 January 2007 23:12 (nineteen years ago)

if we're lookin for people intentionally trying to sound like the other gender (which is not the case with Scott or Thibodeau) the default answers are all drag-queen gay-diva types: George Michael, Boy George, etc. AKA any gay male singer with an R&B diva fixation.

― Shakey Mo Collier (Shakey Mo Collier), Tuesday, 23 January 2007 23:15 (nineteen years ago)

or that guy from Erasure that sounds like Alison Moyet...

― Shakey Mo Collier (Shakey Mo Collier), Tuesday, 23 January 2007 23:16 (nineteen years ago)

(of course this also raises the question of what it means to "sing like a man/woman" - ie, assigning various vocal mannerisms and tics to a specific gender, which seems problematic)

― Shakey Mo Collier (Shakey Mo Collier), Tuesday, 23 January 2007 23:17 (nineteen years ago)

interesting adam

― surmounter (rra123), Tuesday, 23 January 2007 23:22 (nineteen years ago)

see Wayne Newton on Danke Schoen -- I could never believe that was a guy when I first heard it

actually, one guy thought I was a girl when he heard me sing (tho I'm sure the name wasn't helping)

― Dominique (dleone), Tuesday, 23 January 2007 23:26 (nineteen years ago)

Antony is an easy example of a guy (sorry, A) who's intentionally aping a lot of stereotypically female vocal tics. The fact that he's doing exactly that is a big part of his artistic persona.

But I don't perceive his voice as female, no matter how female it sounds. Because I know he's male, I therefore read everything about his voice as male.

That sounds self-evident, but there's more to it. I mean, there's a huge set of assumptions, prejudices, interpretive systems and associations that I bring to anything that I identify as "male" -- and the same is true for "female" things. These gender-sets color how I feel and think about what I'm hearing, and in some ways, trump the physical qualities of the voice-as-sound.

So, what a voice sounds like is a lot less important that what I think I know it is.

― french for cane break (Pye Poudre), Tuesday, 23 January 2007 23:36 (nineteen years ago)

Nick Gilder, Simply Red, Leo Sayer and Jimmy Somerville to thread!

― D.V.C. (Caputo, D.V.), Wednesday, 24 January 2007 00:04 (eighteen years ago)

Technotronic's singer.

― Zachary S (Zach S), Wednesday, 24 January 2007 00:09 (eighteen years ago)

Gordon Sharp from Cindytalk/This Mortal Coil has a really unusual voice that hovers between a really high tenor to a convincingly smoky female voice, without ever being falsetto-sounding.

― Trayce (trayce), Wednesday, 24 January 2007 00:17 (eighteen years ago)

The Blood Brothers

― brightscreamer (brightscreamer), Wednesday, 24 January 2007 00:23 (eighteen years ago)

haha y'know it just occurred to me that the real true "voice without gender" = VOCODER

― Shakey Mo Collier (Shakey Mo Collier), Wednesday, 24 January 2007 00:24 (eighteen years ago)

This or that moment on Silent Shout.

― french for cane break (Pye Poudre), Wednesday, 24 January 2007 00:36 (eighteen years ago)

Laurie Anderson. Or maybe Moe Tucker.

― french for cane break (Pye Poudre), Wednesday, 24 January 2007 00:37 (eighteen years ago)

judy henske

― timmy tannin (pompous), Wednesday, 24 January 2007 00:41 (eighteen years ago)

Angela Gossow

― french for cane break (Pye Poudre), Wednesday, 24 January 2007 00:46 (eighteen years ago)

This is really interesting. Erm.. So, this may sound mean, but it seems like when girls try to sing like dudes, a lot of times it ends up sounding squawky... In the way that they're trying to imitate the brashness or whatnot while ignoring their own vocal rage limitations. While, if a guy sings like a girl (a la Antony), he usually uses a more ballady vibratto, and no matter how low the voice it sounds feminine (hell, Etta James and Patsy Cline had some suuuuriously low voices but never sounded dudeish).
The only somewhat contemporary female vocalist who sounds relatively (or occasionally) male to me is Skin from Skunk Anansie, but even then...

― Andi Headphones (Andi Headphones), Wednesday, 24 January 2007 01:00 (eighteen years ago)

Because I know he's male, I therefore read everything about his voice as male.

i know people who have heard antony not knowing his sex and have been puzzled trying to figure it out.

― gypsy mothra (gypsy mothra), Wednesday, 24 January 2007 01:03 (eighteen years ago)

/i usedta think that Venus by Shocking blue was a man singing. But I was wrong. It was really a woman.

― Fjord Spellman (fjord), Wednesday, 24 January 2007 01:05 (eighteen years ago)

andi, what's your theory on girls who try to sing like guys who are trying to sing like girls?

by which i mean ann wilson, of course.

― fact checking cuz (fcc), Wednesday, 24 January 2007 01:06 (eighteen years ago)

Devendra Banhart's first album, kind of.

― Ivan G (Ivan), Wednesday, 24 January 2007 01:11 (eighteen years ago)

Anne Wilson just kicks serious ass.

― Andi Headphones (Andi Headphones), Wednesday, 24 January 2007 01:13 (eighteen years ago)

But I don't think she was trying to sing like guys who were trying to sing like girls, if anything she probably liked dudes who knew how to rip some wailing vibratto.

― Andi Headphones (Andi Headphones), Wednesday, 24 January 2007 01:16 (eighteen years ago)

hm... one t, and i mean tremolo, apparently.

― Andi Headphones (Andi Headphones), Wednesday, 24 January 2007 01:20 (eighteen years ago)

http://www.musicobsession.com/Pictures/l/i/limahl330761.jpg

― Curt1s St3ph3ns, Wednesday, 24 January 2007 01:29 (eighteen years ago)

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4IbPGxYWS_k

― Curt1s St3ph3ns, Wednesday, 24 January 2007 01:34 (eighteen years ago)

Keytar+effeminate singer+white suits=feathered mullet+fluorescent shapes=80s death squall.

― Andi Headphones (Andi Headphones), Wednesday, 24 January 2007 01:47 (eighteen years ago)

Love Nick Gilder's voice, D.V.C.

― youth problem (YouthProblem), Wednesday, 24 January 2007 02:30 (eighteen years ago)

I think I'm embarassed to admit it but I got a big kick out of that Modern Talking video. The weirdest thing about it is he looks so much like Robyn Hitchcock...but obviously a way much more effeminiate version of him.

― White Dopes on Punk (Bimble...), Wednesday, 24 January 2007 04:05 (eighteen years ago)

Jimmy "The World's Oldest Fetus" Sommerville is a pretty good candidate for a voice without gender because he doesn't so much sound like a woman as like a guy with no balls.

― Hideous Lump (Hideous Lump), Wednesday, 24 January 2007 04:32 (eighteen years ago)

http://www.coquetelmolotov.com.br/pt/entrevistas/20060217014953.jpg

screaming 8-year-olds are always a great choice for androgyny

― Curt1s St3ph3ns, Wednesday, 24 January 2007 05:07 (eighteen years ago)

I can't believe nobody has said Geddy Lee yet.

― Jeff Treppel (Heavy Metal Hamster), Wednesday, 24 January 2007 05:09 (eighteen years ago)

amanda lear?

― speculator (speculator), Wednesday, 24 January 2007 07:04 (eighteen years ago)

Anne Murray and Mark Kozelek - also they kinda sound alike

― Susan Douglas (Susan Douglas), Wednesday, 24 January 2007 07:06 (eighteen years ago)

tracy chapman!

ugh i just had to watch martina hingis lose a 3 setter to kim. DAMN

― surmounter (rra123), Wednesday, 24 January 2007 07:57 (eighteen years ago)

when I used to hear the Concrete Blonde "What's Going On" song I never imagined it was a woman singing. I'm sure I have other examples but none come to mind currently.

― sleeve version 2.0 (sleeve testing), Wednesday, 24 January 2007 08:07 (eighteen years ago)

there's a certain classic rock vocal style that really exemplifies an aspect of this effect.

― sleeve version 2.0 (sleeve testing), Wednesday, 24 January 2007 08:08 (eighteen years ago)

"Angela Gossow".

Hell yeah. Death metal growls are truly asexual. :)

― GLC (ZakAce), Wednesday, 24 January 2007 08:53 (eighteen years ago)

I was really surprised that the guy from Sigur Ros was a guy (it is, right?). Also originally thought that the singers from Bleach (Japanese band) were teenage boys (and that one really made me change some underlying assumptions). Finally, is it actually Lindsey Buckingham singing during the chorus of "Come" (from Gift of Screws/Say You Will) 'cause I was totally convinced that was Stevie Nicks w/a lot of effects.

― dlp9001 (dlp9001), Wednesday, 24 January 2007 09:56 (eighteen years ago)

Sylvester... especially on "Over and Over"

― kevvy-k (kebino), Wednesday, 24 January 2007 14:32 (eighteen years ago)

the Concrete Blonde "What's Going On" song

hehheh

― The Good Dr. Bill (The Good Dr. Bill), Wednesday, 24 January 2007 15:00 (eighteen years ago)

there's a certain classic rock vocal style that really exemplifies an aspect of this effect.

I think Steve Perry on "Wheel In the Sky" comes the closest of any classic rock hit I can think of. There are moments that sound very feminine to me ("very much longer") but there are still other bits that I think sound more clearly male (the somewhat strained chorus). I don't know how much of that is just because I already know it's a man singing. (I've heard someone assume "Don't Stop Believin'" was Heart before.)

― Sundar (sundar), Wednesday, 24 January 2007 15:15 (eighteen years ago)

Sigur Ros' singer probably comes closest of any male singer I can think of right now.

― Sundar (sundar), Wednesday, 24 January 2007 15:16 (eighteen years ago)

Yeah. I'm with DLP & Sundar on Sigur Ro's. Bought Aegis Byrjum (or whatever) when it first came out on Fat Cat just 'cuz I liked the cover. Listened to it for quite a while assuming that a woman was doing a good deal of the singing. Still find it kinda hard to believe it's all male voices.

― the new sincerity (Pye Poudre), Wednesday, 24 January 2007 15:21 (eighteen years ago)

you people have clearly never heard that Limahl song.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6hUesPsten4

― Curt1s St3ph3ns, Wednesday, 24 January 2007 16:42 (eighteen years ago)

...is it actually Lindsey Buckingham singing during the chorus of "Come" (from Gift of Screws/Say You Will) 'cause I was totally convinced that was Stevie Nicks w/a lot of effects

It's definitely Lindsey doing both the male and female grunts on "Big Love."

― Hideous Lump (Hideous Lump), Thursday, 25 January 2007 04:12 (eighteen years ago)

prince's voice doesn't have even a hint of female in it

Except on the Camille songs like "If I Was Your Girlfriend."

― Hideous Lump (Hideous Lump), Thursday, 25 January 2007 04:23 (eighteen years ago)

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