My friend wants to copy my entire itunes library

So I had 100 gbs of (fairly hard to find) music that I've slowly collected over the past four years at college. The other day a friend of mine asked to copy it to an external drive and I agreed. Now I feel sick to my stomach and I can't seem to stop hating my friend. Is this simple greed?

-- guy lusac (...) (webmail), October 5th, 2004 8:06 AM. (1 trackback) (link)

Answers

best thread ever

-- Brigadier Rainham Steele, Mrs (stevem7...) (webmail), October 5th, 2004 8:09 AM. (blueski) (link)

This is why socialism will never work.

-- Marcello Carlin (marcellocarli...) (webmail), October 5th, 2004 8:09 AM. (link)

best post over

-- REFICUL! (Sevlesmeth.Pleh.Ohw.Esot...) (webmail), October 5th, 2004 8:10 AM. (link)

i like it when people want copies of my music.

in answer to your question, it might be even worse than simple greed. might not.

-- m. (mitchnet70NOSPA...) (webmail), October 5th, 2004 8:10 AM. (mitchlnw) (link)

Somehow, I don't think a similar query will ever surface in a "Dear Abby" column.

-- Raymond Cummings (gracefulas...) (webmail), October 5th, 2004 8:10 AM. (Raymond Cummings) (link)

Shop your friend to the RIAA.

-- Alba (albab...) (webmail), October 5th, 2004 8:11 AM. (Alba) (link)

Next time you see them, I bet they tell you that they think you've got shit taste. In fact, now they probably hate you.

-- NickB (nic...) (webmail), October 5th, 2004 8:13 AM. (NickB) (link)

Music should be shared! This is why I like burning CDRs for folks, which is just the same idea in a different guise (I mean c'mon, I *want* people to hear Disco Inferno!).

-- Ned Raggett (ne...) (webmail), October 5th, 2004 8:13 AM. (Ned) (link)

Socialist Nedism

-- REFICUL! (Sevlesmeth.Pleh.Ohw.Esot...) (webmail), October 5th, 2004 8:15 AM. (link)

It's not greed, it's the fear that your friend will use your music collection to impress girls without crediting you and giving you first option.

-- Alba (albab...) (webmail), October 5th, 2004 8:15 AM. (Alba) (link)

Socialist Nedism -- A milder form of music copying socialism where the benefactors only get a small subset based on the leader's whims.

-- REFICUL! (Sevlesmeth.Pleh.Ohw.Esot...) (webmail), October 5th, 2004 8:16 AM. (link)

I think your sickness comes from the speed with which he took the stuff. you felt that you had put a lot of time and effort into something worth while, perhaps your goal being to attract people to you with the diversity and depth of your collection. Now he has this thing that you invested so much into, and you feel that investment devalued. Try spending the time on something that no one can take with a metal box and a firewire cable. Not that I can talk, I be a downloading, layabout mutherfucker.

-- lukey (picninj...) (webmail), October 5th, 2004 8:17 AM. (Lukey G) (link)

Capitalism explained in a nutshell!

-- Marcello Carlin (marcellocarli...) (webmail), October 5th, 2004 8:20 AM. (link)

a former roommate of mine who'd burned a buncha music from me had her car broken into a few weeks ago and CDs were stolen. so she hands me a piece of paper with like 10 things she would like for me to burn again. and i agreed, cuz i was sorry she'd had shit stolen. but i'm broke and haven't been able to purchase more CDRs (i've got a component burner, thus the CDRs are more expensive [it's a racket, i think] than the data CDRs for computers). then the other night i see her out and she asks if i've heard the new interpol and i say "nah" and she says she could BURN it for me, obviously hinting that i've flaked on her or something. sheesh.

-- andrew m. (westernis...) (webmail), October 5th, 2004 8:20 AM. (andrewmorgan) (link)

Did you download/copy most of that shit in the first place?

-- Jordan (jordan...) (webmail), October 5th, 2004 8:21 AM. (Jordan) (link)

Socialist Nedism -- A milder form of music copying socialism where the benefactors only get a small subset based on the leader's whims.

PRECISELY.

-- Ned Raggett (ne...) (webmail), October 5th, 2004 8:22 AM. (Ned) (link)

attract people to you with the diversity and depth of your collection
does this ever work?

-- zebedee (zebede...) (webmail), October 5th, 2004 8:22 AM. (zebedee) (link)

xpst resp. to jordan: no, they were actual albums and such

-- andrew m. (westernis...) (webmail), October 5th, 2004 8:24 AM. (andrewmorgan) (link)

Zebedee - no, at least not the kind of people you would want to attract. Yet the delusion is hard to shake off.

-- Alba (albab...) (webmail), October 5th, 2004 8:26 AM. (Alba) (link)

attract people to you with the diversity and depth of your collection
does this ever work?

I don't think anyone anywhere gives a SHIT about what anyone else likes, except to the extent that it overlaps with their own taste. "Oh, you like 311? Me too! And here's what else I like ... "

-- dave225 (right.knewi...) (webmail), October 5th, 2004 8:26 AM. (Dave225) (link)

The appearance that your friend was able to gain everything you had worked so hard for at a miniscule fraction of the effort is somewhat deceiving. You have 100gb of music that you like and is meaningful to you - that you have associations with and a context for. Your friend now has 100gb of music that you like and is meaningful to you - without any of the associations or context. Chances are it will not be nearly as valuable to your friend as it is to you.

-- o. nate (syne_wav...) (webmail), October 5th, 2004 8:26 AM. (onate) (link)

attract people to you with the diversity and depth of your collection
does this ever work?

people think you are weird if you have like 600 cds (thats not that many!) and a burgeoning record collection and would willfully spend hours looking through the used stacks.

-- artdamages (chris.tha()mrin@gmail.com) (webmail), October 5th, 2004 8:31 AM. (artdamages) (link)

Why didn't you copy his music?

-- Alex in SF (clobberthesauru...) (webmail), October 5th, 2004 8:34 AM. (Alex in SF) (link)

people think you are weird if you have like 600 cds (thats not that many!) and a burgeoning record collection and would willfully spend hours looking through the used stacks.

Not if your a DJ, or your records are cool.

-- Alba (albab...) (webmail), October 5th, 2004 8:34 AM. (Alba) (link)

since i transfered everything to a external hd, i've had several people copy all 200 gigs to their own drives. i never felt the slightest twinge of guilt -- these people are friends, and we've always shared music. guy's just a wee bit selfish, methinks.

-- Yanc3y (ystrickle...) (webmail), October 5th, 2004 8:37 AM. (ystrickler) (link)

"You're" ach, I'm getting worse.

Seriously though, it does depend on the music. Despite what I said above, my last gf was very into soul and funk and dance some folk and what have you and loved hearing the records I had that fitted into that. And I loved hearing hers. I suppose it wouldn't be going too far to say we were impressed with each other's music collections.

-- Alba (albab...) (webmail), October 5th, 2004 8:37 AM. (Alba) (link)

So I had 100 gbs of (fairly hard to find) music that I've slowly collected over the past four years at college. The other day a friend of mine asked to copy it to an external drive and I agreed. Now I feel sick to my stomach and I can't seem to stop hating my friend. Is this simple greed?

Well, I wouldn't call it greed. You may be resentful as you put in the hours and your friend is reaping the rewards in comparatively very short order, but if he was suitably grateful for it, I'd let it go. I mean...perhaps you're putting too much stock into the methods of your music acquisition. Perhaps instead of feelilng sick to your stomach, you should feel good about yourself for sharing. Now, if this guy goes around appropriating your inherent coolness for seeking this stuff out in the first place by saying he's "been into Amon Dull (or whomever) for years, man", that ultimately makes him a dick and a poser, but otherwise, just feel good about spreading the gospel of good, different, challenging, interesting music. There's one less goon in the world who will listen to Nickelback. Pat yourself on the back for that, pilgrim.

-- Alex in NYC (vassife...) (webmail), October 5th, 2004 8:41 AM. (vassifer) (link)

How many CDs is 100 Gbs anyhow?

-- NickB (nic...) (webmail), October 5th, 2004 8:42 AM. (NickB) (link)

Hahahaha "appropriating your inherent coolness", aaah Alex your priceless.

-- Alex in SF (clobberthesauru...) (webmail), October 5th, 2004 8:42 AM. (Alex in SF) (link)

At least 600, I would think.

-- Alex in SF (clobberthesauru...) (webmail), October 5th, 2004 8:42 AM. (Alex in SF) (link)

100gbs = 1000

-- Yanc3y (ystrickle...) (webmail), October 5th, 2004 8:44 AM. (ystrickler) (link)

Eeep. I think you need the long years of collecting this stuff in order to be able to properly digest it anyhow.

-- NickB (nic...) (webmail), October 5th, 2004 8:44 AM. (NickB) (link)

Shit any college kid who has a 1000 albums should share anyway. Fucking rich bastards.

-- Alex in SF (clobberthesauru...) (webmail), October 5th, 2004 8:45 AM. (Alex in SF) (link)

Bet you he only ever listened to about 1% of it anyway

-- Dadaismus (kcoyne3...) (webmail), October 5th, 2004 8:45 AM. (Dada) (link)

Shit any college kid who has a 1000 albums should share anyway. Fucking rich bastards.

More Socialism! Hooray!

-- Dadaismus (kcoyne3...) (webmail), October 5th, 2004 8:46 AM. (Dada) (link)

a friend of mine recently got an ipod and borrowed a lot (100+) of cds to rip and put on it. he also ripped all of his cds and sold or gave away the lot. i like the idea of removing the physical burden of having all of that music. dunno if i could do it myself though.

100GB of music isn't really that much. it's around 1000 albums i think.

many xposts

-- tricky disco (trick...) (webmail), October 5th, 2004 8:46 AM. (disco stu) (link)

1000 albums isn't really that much?!?!?!

-- Alex in SF (clobberthesauru...) (webmail), October 5th, 2004 8:47 AM. (Alex in SF) (link)

i recently sold most of my music collection

-- Yanc3y (ystrickle...) (webmail), October 5th, 2004 8:48 AM. (ystrickler) (link)

FUCK SHARING.

IF YOU COULD GET 100 GIGS OF MUSIC ON YOUR OWN...HE/SHE SHOULD BE ABLE TO DO THE SAME THING.

LAZY FUCKS.

-- DEEBZ (stupidpum...) (webmail), October 5th, 2004 8:48 AM. (ddb) (link)

.... Capitalism rears its ugly head again

-- Dadaismus (kcoyne3...) (webmail), October 5th, 2004 8:49 AM. (Dada) (link)

Yanc3y, you aren't 21 and you've been a music reviewer for how long now? I expect you to have 1500 CDs.

-- Alex in SF (clobberthesauru...) (webmail), October 5th, 2004 8:49 AM. (Alex in SF) (link)

I think Ned said it above, but I like it when people want to 'borrow' or 'rip' or 'copy' from my collection. It means (a) at least we'll now be able to discuss the numerous merits of, say, Theatre of Hate or Naked Raygun and (b) maybe in turn they will similarly pass on that music and further spread the word that, say, Skeleton Key rock a helluva lot harder and in a much more interesting way than, say, fuckin' Slipknot.

-- Alex in NYC (vassife...) (webmail), October 5th, 2004 8:51 AM. (vassifer) (link)

Disclaimer: I should mention that I have more than 1500 CDs, too, but I am nearly 30 and make you know real money, unlike most college kids.

-- Alex in SF (clobberthesauru...) (webmail), October 5th, 2004 8:53 AM. (Alex in SF) (link)

i'm not following you, alex sf...

-- Yanc3y (ystrickle...) (webmail), October 5th, 2004 8:53 AM. (ystrickler) (link)

I'm just shocked that 21 year olds have a thousand CDs mostly.

-- Alex in SF (clobberthesauru...) (webmail), October 5th, 2004 8:54 AM. (Alex in SF) (link)

Actually shocked isn't the right word, maybe horrified is.

-- Alex in SF (clobberthesauru...) (webmail), October 5th, 2004 8:54 AM. (Alex in SF) (link)

Disgusted?

-- Alex in SF (clobberthesauru...) (webmail), October 5th, 2004 8:55 AM. (Alex in SF) (link)

do we know that the 21-year-old has 1000 cds or does he just have 100 gigs of mp3s? cuz those could be acquired via any number of means...

-- Yanc3y (ystrickle...) (webmail), October 5th, 2004 8:56 AM. (ystrickler) (link)

Haha yeah that's a good point, but really what kind of person covets mp3s they've basically stolen anyway!

-- Alex in SF (clobberthesauru...) (webmail), October 5th, 2004 8:58 AM. (Alex in SF) (link)

There's no honour amongst downloaders.

-- Alba (albab...) (webmail), October 5th, 2004 9:00 AM. (Alba) (link)

I am 22 and, yeah, I have 500 or 600 cds (haven't counted lately). I also have like 60 records and I just got a record player like 2 months ago! But I really don't have all that money. I live inna boarding house thats really cheap and don't spend money on much else besides beer. Also I've bought a lot of my cds used for real cheap and have a few promos.

-- artdamages (chris.tha()mrin@gmail.com) (webmail), October 5th, 2004 9:08 AM. (artdamages) (link)

1000 albums isn't really that much?!?!?!

have you been on $l$k lately?

-- tricky disco (trick...) (webmail), October 5th, 2004 9:13 AM. (disco stu) (link)

Yes. And?

-- Alex in SF (clobberthesauru...) (webmail), October 5th, 2004 9:13 AM. (Alex in SF) (link)

sorry if that came out kind of bitchy. i'd say there are a large amount of users with incredibly large mp3 collections that's all. i guess i should have qualified my statement and said that 1000 albums of _digital_ music isn't that much.

-- tricky disco (trick...) (webmail), October 5th, 2004 9:21 AM. (disco stu) (link)

Alex in NYC, you should hear Amon Duul

-- Professor Challenger (Brontasauru...) (webmail), October 5th, 2004 9:47 AM. (ex machina) (link)

I'm just shocked that 21 year olds have a thousand CDs mostly.

i had twice that when i was 21.

-- pfeffernuesse (theundergroundhom...) (webmail), October 5th, 2004 9:52 AM. (Jody Beth Rosen) (link)

Hahaha Jody were you selling black market babies or something?

-- Alex in SF (clobberthesauru...) (webmail), October 5th, 2004 9:57 AM. (Alex in SF) (link)

I had around that much at 21 as well. It's all about used CD shopping.

-- Ned Raggett (ne...) (webmail), October 5th, 2004 10:02 AM. (Ned) (link)

I sense a Woebot blog post upcoming.

-- djdee2005 (ddrak...) (webmail), October 5th, 2004 10:04 AM. (djdee2005) (link)

I doubt it that's what it's all about, but I'll be nice and let it drop there.

-- Alex in SF (clobberthesauru...) (webmail), October 5th, 2004 10:05 AM. (Alex in SF) (link)

it's all about good babysitting gigs.

-- pfeffernuesse (theundergroundhom...) (webmail), October 5th, 2004 10:11 AM. (Jody Beth Rosen) (link)

I doubt it that's what it's all about, but I'll be nice and let it drop there.

I assume its something about 'real money'.

btw I 've spend a fair amount of student loan $ on cds.

-- artdamages (chris.tha()mrin@gmail.com) (webmail), October 5th, 2004 10:15 AM. (artdamages) (link)

i could very well have 1000 cds (i have around 700)... but i am a film fiend as well and have just around 350 dvds.

its all about how you spend your money... priorities!

-- todd swiss (yourvictim...) (webmail), October 5th, 2004 10:16 AM. (eliti) (link)

What would you rather rich kids spend their money on?

-- Magic City (magiceggsinamagiccit...) (webmail), October 5th, 2004 10:19 AM. (ano ano) (link)

Why didn't you copy his music?
-- Alex in SF (clobberthesauru...), October 5th, 2004.
OTM.
I think that's the point- it wouldn't have left a bad taste in your mouth had there been some sharing by both parties.

-- mclaugh (mclaugh...) (webmail), October 5th, 2004 10:20 AM. (mclaugh) (link)

at least if you let someone copy it you always know where a backup is in case your drive dies

-- kyle (akmonda...) (webmail), October 5th, 2004 10:25 AM. (akmonday) (link)

Holy shit, I'd never thought about that! Very good point.

-- nickalicious (nickaliciou...) (webmail), October 5th, 2004 10:36 AM. (nickalicious) (link)

i'd like to know in what universe i'm a "rich kid" (okay, maybe in a third world country).

-- pfeffernuesse (theundergroundhom...) (webmail), October 5th, 2004 10:48 AM. (Jody Beth Rosen) (link)

It's great when I can copy off a few songs, an album, or even everything I have by someone to give to a friend. Copying off all of my music I have on computers though... well, you'd have to understand the type of jerks that linger around college campuses and such. They're collecting digital copies of music, not actually listening. It's like this "who can have 10 billion albums" on their computer thing. That makes me feel dirty.

If it was someone who wanted to listen to what I have and expand tastes, that's cool. If it's to have the biggest collection of files ever, dud.

-- mike h. (mikedotharpe...) (webmail), October 5th, 2004 11:05 AM. (mike h.) (link)

maybe it's the fact he stole a *complete* part of you. or at least maybe you feel this way. it's less of a problem if you only share/copy a part of your collection, which doesn't feel like s/he's cutting a vital part off? it has nothing to do with money/more with having built up sth that *reflects* you.

-- jesus nathalie (stevienixe...) (webmail), October 5th, 2004 11:12 AM. (nathalie) (link)

At work, people have the option of making their iTunes libraries available to everyone over the ethernet. One day a friend asked if he could copy my folder, of course I said sure. The next day my library appeared intact, absorbed into his, and I felt momentarily resentful. But I got over it, because my folder was still there, a more focused subset.

Part of me is definitely still getting used to the new world where seemingly no work is required to find their holy grails. But another part is looking forward to a mode where scarcity & mere ownership isn’t the issue, but rather organization & focus of what’s there.

-- (milto...) (webmail), October 5th, 2004 11:18 AM. (Jon L) (link)

I have no problem with this as long as the person has something to share as well. Otherwise, it definitely feels like someone is coping your taste. Besides that, a music collection that large definitely did not just appear without any effort and you're right to feel a bit slighted. However, unless you paid money for most of those songs, you've got to keep yourself in check about how victimized you can feel about this. Chances are, your feelings now are related to some larger problem between you and your friend that you should look into.

-- why do old people and old users of ILX such bastardos (power.strik...) (webmail), October 5th, 2004 11:23 AM. (deangulberry) (link)

but rather organization & focus of what’s there.

otm. it's all about curatorial skill now.

-- tricky disco (trick...) (webmail), October 5th, 2004 11:34 AM. (disco stu) (link)

chris and i share our music all the time but he's really the only one i would give access to my "whole collection." i don't mind trading files with people, but when it comes to whole libraries -- i'd rather encourage people to do a little work and find stuff on their own.

-- pfeffernuesse (theundergroundhom...) (webmail), October 5th, 2004 11:37 AM. (Jody Beth Rosen) (link)

also it sort of annoys me that people buy ipods just for the sake of owning one, when they hardly have any music of their own to put on there, and then they expect all their friends and relatives to hand over everything they've ever acquired.

-- pfeffernuesse (theundergroundhom...) (webmail), October 5th, 2004 11:38 AM. (Jody Beth Rosen) (link)

"hi. i just bought a refrigerator. now gimme all your food."

-- pfeffernuesse (theundergroundhom...) (webmail), October 5th, 2004 11:39 AM. (Jody Beth Rosen) (link)

dean, are you dr. phil?

-- jack cole (jack_col...) (webmail), October 5th, 2004 11:40 AM. (jackcole) (link)

the tyranny of selfish music geeks shocker!

-- Yanc3y (ystrickle...) (webmail), October 5th, 2004 11:47 AM. (ystrickler) (link)

x-post to jbr

then they expect all their friends and relatives to hand over everything they've ever acquired.

it is definitely a much greater favor to ask than many people seem to take it for. I would only let a very good friend copy everything, and only if they were serious about music.

but this is brought about by the sudden ease of the act; copying a hard drive is so simple. your refrigerator line is unfair, of course, you still get to eat.

-- (milto...) (webmail), October 5th, 2004 11:51 AM. (Jon L) (link)

It's funny though.

-- Alba (albab...) (webmail), October 5th, 2004 11:52 AM. (Alba) (link)

(she definitely nailed the feeling of what it's like to be asked the question, dead on)

-- (milto...) (webmail), October 5th, 2004 11:53 AM. (Jon L) (link)

it's more the "gimme" aspect of it.

-- pfeffernuesse (theundergroundhom...) (webmail), October 5th, 2004 11:53 AM. (Jody Beth Rosen) (link)

I like to lend people CD's, but I'm glad I'll never put all my music on a computer.

-- jel -- (freeduni...) (webmail), October 5th, 2004 11:54 AM. (jel) (link)

jack, i like to give serious answers every now and then.

i should've said OMG IF THIIS IS YOUR ONLY PROBLEM THEN WAIT TIL YOU GRADATE COLLAGE

-- why do old people and old users of ILX such bastardos (power.strik...) (webmail), October 5th, 2004 11:55 AM. (deangulberry) (link)

wtf some of y'all are way too posessive about this. YOU didn't make the music. They aren't stealing it from you. I think whoever said the pangs of guilt were because of being over-invested in accumulating all that music was OTM. All you did was find it, in a store, online, wherever. Anyone, whether I've known them for 5 minutes or my whole life, is welcome to copy any or all of my music collection.

-- oops (don'temailmenicelad...) (webmail), October 5th, 2004 12:07 PM. (Oops) (link)

I don't mean to come across all holier-than-thou, but really, get a grip man!

-- oops (don'temailmenicelad...) (webmail), October 5th, 2004 12:15 PM. (Oops) (link)

The whole problem with all this, and with the larger downloading debate, is the underlying sense of entitlement people seem to have.

File sharing, especially en masse, is not really socialism at all, it's just "I deserve free stuff for no good reason."

If you feel you need mass-produced music, you are implicitly affirming support of a capitalist product. It's not just that the artists need money to live, it also took money to record, produce, package, distribute, and even market that music (so that you got a chance to hear it). If you have such a problem with this, don't listen to the music. You can live without it.

-- Hurting (Hurtingchie...) (webmail), October 5th, 2004 12:22 PM. (Hurting) (link)

x-post, but making the same point.

>YOU didn't make the music. They aren't stealing it from you.

they aren't stealing it from us. but they are kind of stealing it, you know.

-- (milto...) (webmail), October 5th, 2004 12:24 PM. (Jon L) (link)

So then charge them for it. Would that make you feel better?

-- oops (don'temailmenicelad...) (webmail), October 5th, 2004 12:26 PM. (Oops) (link)

(I was trying to make the point that once they copy it, the music is still there for you, not that they aren't getting free music)

-- oops (don'temailmenicelad...) (webmail), October 5th, 2004 12:27 PM. (Oops) (link)

wtf some of y'all are way too posessive about this. YOU didn't make the music.
This is irrelevant. Just because you didn't build your car with your bare hands doesn't mean that everyone else should feel free to drive it.

-- MindInRewind (brune...) (webmail), October 5th, 2004 12:33 PM. (Barry Bruner) (link)

No, THAT is irrelevant, cause usually when someone borrows your car, you are not able to drive it while they are doing so. It's not an accurate comparison.

-- oops (don'temailmenicelad...) (webmail), October 5th, 2004 12:34 PM. (Oops) (link)

Cause if I could copy my car and give that copy to someone else, why the fuck wouldn't I?

-- oops (don'temailmenicelad...) (webmail), October 5th, 2004 12:34 PM. (Oops) (link)

I'm just shocked that 21 year olds have a thousand CDs mostly.

This has probably been done to death but I'm too lazy to read the thread.

I had a friend from high school who spent all of his extra money on CDs. At one point in college, he got a part-time job in a record store so that he could buy more CDs AND get a discount. He had something on the order of 1750 CDs by the time we were 21 and has continued buying at the same rate in the ensuing 10 years; I think he's got something like 8000 now.

-- Dan Perry '08 (djperr...) (webmail), October 5th, 2004 12:40 PM. (Dan Perry) (link)

If you have a job in hs or college (and therefore don't have "adult"-type bills) and you don't smoke, drink much, or waste much on other drugs, you'll have a lot to spend on something like cds.

-- oops (don'temailmenicelad...) (webmail), October 5th, 2004 12:45 PM. (Oops) (link)

I appreciate the fact that you're playing devil's advocate, oops, and I agree with your scarcity point. Have a little sympathy for us oldtimers who are still a bit shocked & disoriented at the disjunct between the ease of copying over a hard drive with the (tens of) thousands and dollars and hours spent over many years previously required to amass an individual collecion.

And keep in mind that your 'generosity' is entirely at someone else's expense if not yours. I have CDs of my own on the market, and although I'm certainly happy when I see my stuff is on soulseek, I am not _entirely_ happy, you know.

-- (milto...) (webmail), October 5th, 2004 12:47 PM. (Jon L) (link)

straight edge hardcore 7 inches

-- Professor Challenger (Brontasauru...) (webmail), October 5th, 2004 12:48 PM. (ex machina) (link)

(x-post x2). . . and you will be the most boring human being ever.

-- Alex in SF (clobberthesauru...) (webmail), October 5th, 2004 12:49 PM. (Alex in SF) (link)

>straight edge hardcore 7 inches

la monte young

-- (milto...) (webmail), October 5th, 2004 12:51 PM. (Jon L) (link)

http://www.ubu.com/

-- (milto...) (webmail), October 5th, 2004 12:53 PM. (Jon L) (link)

And keep in mind that your 'generosity' is entirely at someone else's expense if not yours.

This has nothing to do with the thread at hand. I'm not getting into the morality of filesharing and the like. I don't think the negative feelings articulated in the opening post and other subsequent ones result from them feeling guilty that the artists/bands are not being properly compensated.

-- oops (don'temailmenicelad...) (webmail), October 5th, 2004 12:53 PM. (Oops) (link)

forgive me for bringing that up then.

-- (milto...) (webmail), October 5th, 2004 1:31 PM. (Jon L) (link)

(The funny thing is that this particular friend most certrainly smoked and drank and, um, did some other things, yet still had mounds and mounds of CDs. Hell, once I got a job I started amassing an amazing CD collection; I think I got up to 1100 before thinking "OKAY BUDDY SLOW DOWN THERE")

-- Dan Perry '08 (djperr...) (webmail), October 5th, 2004 1:34 PM. (Dan Perry) (link)

No, THAT is irrelevant, cause usually when someone borrows your car, you are not able to drive it while they are doing so.
The feeling of ownership is main point though. The unease people are expressing on this thread wrt letting others copy their music has nothing to do with convenience. It's the feeling that the person who copies is acquiring something 1000X easier than the person from whom they copied.

Similarly, if you don't want to lend somebody your car, it may have little to do with whether or not you were planning on using it yourself that day and everything to do with the effort you spent on finding it, buying it, and fixing it up just the way you like it.

-- MindInRewind (brune...) (webmail), October 5th, 2004 2:20 PM. (Barry Bruner) (link)

Yes I understand that, and while I don't think it's an accurate comparison, I still hate fuckers that are reluctant to lend out their cars, too. (This generally has a lot to do with the possibility of the loanee damaging the car, something that isn't possible with copying one's music. Just another reason it's not a fair comparison)

-- oops (don'temailmenicelad...) (webmail), October 5th, 2004 2:30 PM. (Oops) (link)

Fair enough, the comparison is far from perfect, but again, I wanted to draw attention to the possessiveness (?is this a word?) that people feel about their music by referencing another, highly "material" possession.

-- MindInRewind (brune...) (webmail), October 5th, 2004 2:51 PM. (Barry Bruner) (link)

Yeah I never was trying to argue that possessiveness wasn't the main cause of such feelings, just that, in general but even moreso in this instance, it's a pretty juvenile and egotistical response.
It's really hard to make a fair comparison with this and any other possession. What else of yours can just be copied with such relative ease? Would you (I don't know who I'm addressing here...) let someone photocopy all your books?

-- oops (don'temailmenicelad...) (webmail), October 5th, 2004 3:11 PM. (Oops) (link)

Something about obtaining 2,000 CDs worth of music in one day is depressing. Obviously this is all heading toward wireless on-demand music and that is more palatable for some reason. I guess if you "own" the CDs you feel compelled to "know" them, and that'll take forever.

-- Mark (r-...) (webmail), October 5th, 2004 3:55 PM. (MarkR) (link)

Something about obtaining 2,000 CDs worth of music in one day is depressing.

Indeed. Where's the thrill of opening each cd and popping in the cd player? Where's the sport?
Where's my rocking chair?

-- oops (don'temailmenicelad...) (webmail), October 5th, 2004 4:16 PM. (Oops) (link)

What you end up doing is putting your itunes on shuffle PERMANENTLY and that's how you explore. Life becomes worth living.
You guyses glass is halffull, methinks.

-- Forksclovetofu (forksclovetof...) (webmail), October 5th, 2004 4:52 PM. (Forksclovetofu) (link)

Well obviously there's pros and cons.

-- oops (don'temailmenicelad...) (webmail), October 5th, 2004 4:53 PM. (Oops) (link)

Or as we call them: whores and prisoners.

-- Forksclovetofu (forksclovetof...) (webmail), October 5th, 2004 5:05 PM. (Forksclovetofu) (link)

WHO WANTS A COPY OF MY HARD DRIVE?

-- gaz (mullygrubbe...) (webmail), October 5th, 2004 5:13 PM. (gaz) (link)

My little brother is a taste parasite. Whatever I like, he likes. Kind of frustrating.

-- David Allen (Davidalle...) (webmail), October 5th, 2004 5:17 PM. (David Allen) (link)

i probably only ("only") had about 300 CDs when i was 21. the explosion came when i got my first well-paying job at 24. i probably took home 20-30 cds a month for a while there.

-- amateur!!!st (---...) (webmail), October 5th, 2004 5:20 PM. (amateurist) (link)

how can anyone listen to 20-30 cds a month?

-- artdamages (chris.tha()mrin@gmail.com) (webmail), October 5th, 2004 5:26 PM. (artdamages) (link)

one of the things about ilx that is tiring and why i am trying to stay away from it more is the endless race to hear music.

-- artdamages (chris.tha()mrin@gmail.com) (webmail), October 5th, 2004 5:27 PM. (artdamages) (link)

well, it was useful to have all that music around when i no longer had any money and couldn't afford to buy new music.

i didn't listen to all of it very thoroughly at the time i bought it.

if there's a race to hear music, i've certainly given up after the first lap.

-- amateur!!!st (---...) (webmail), October 5th, 2004 5:29 PM. (amateurist) (link)

i do like to hear new stuff once and a while, of course, hence all the cdrs i asked for on my birthday!

-- amateur!!!st (---...) (webmail), October 5th, 2004 5:29 PM. (amateurist) (link)

well it is self-imposed, the racing

-- artdamages (chris.tha()mrin@gmail.com) (webmail), October 5th, 2004 5:30 PM. (artdamages) (link)

i probably sold about 50% of what i bought in that year of profligate spending, eventually. i really liked the idea of having rare orange juice cd reissues and all the gary numan records. then i realized i hardly ever listened to that stuff.

-- amateur!!!st (---...) (webmail), October 5th, 2004 5:30 PM. (amateurist) (link)

there are probably college students in boston whose collections are entirely comprised of my cast-aways

-- amateur!!!st (---...) (webmail), October 5th, 2004 5:31 PM. (amateurist) (link)

So I had 100 gbs of (fairly hard to find) music that I've slowly collected over the past four years at college. The other day a friend of mine asked to copy it to an external drive and I agreed. Now I feel sick to my stomach and I can't seem to stop hating my friend. Is this simple greed?
-- guy lusac

This is why socialism will never work.
-- Marcello Carlin

It will if we shoot these fuckers.

-- noodle vague (noodle_vagu...) (webmail), October 5th, 2004 5:33 PM. (noodle vague) (link)

post-college I had close to 2500 CDS. I worked in high school and in college, got some money given to me for college and was lucky enuf to not have too many expenses so almost all of my income went towards music. Also, I ran a concert series in college and knew lots of ppl in music so got lots of freebies and bought lots of used CDS. I sold about 2000 of them at one point when I had quit my job, could not find another and run through my savings. I so wish mp3s and massive hard drives had existed then.

a few months ago a friend, now living in indonesia, was visiting. Right before she went there she bought an Ipod and grabbed lots of music from her San Francisco friends and when she was here we went somewhere for lunch, stayed there thru evening just dumping music of mine onto her system. I get regular mesages from her about how much she loves having stuff she knows and does not know from all of us pop up randomly and what a thrill it is. That makes me happy, and as pointed out above - you get to have backups with people.

-- H (h.arefeain...) (webmail), October 5th, 2004 5:55 PM. (Heruy) (link)

So I had 100 gbs of (fairly hard to find) music that I've slowly collected over the past four years at college. The other day a friend of mine asked to copy it to an external drive and I agreed. Now I feel sick to my stomach and I can't seem to stop hating my friend. Is this simple greed?
-- guy lusac
This is why socialism will never work.
-- Marcello Carlin

It will if we shoot these fuckers.

-- noodle vague (noodle_vagu...), October 6th, 2004.

Hahaha, yes! Communism will work if we just kill everyone! Fuck human nature! Pol Pot, Mao, and Fidel all had/have the right idea! You disagree with the politburo, well you're going to Siberia BITCH! LOL!!!

-- Red4Life (Ch...) (webmail), October 5th, 2004 6:27 PM. (link)

I listen to something like twenty cds of new music a month.

-- Forksclovetofu (forksclovetof...) (webmail), October 5th, 2004 7:14 PM. (Forksclovetofu) (link)

i listened to over 50 cds a month last year and i hated it

-- artdamages (chris.tha()mrin@gmail.com) (webmail), October 5th, 2004 8:51 PM. (artdamages) (link)

My brother, not the music junkie that I am, was going to DJ for the first time, and he thought it was ok to take all the music from my painfully, carefully collected Diego-Valladolid-favourite-music-for-parties folder. With all the rare, hard to find mp3s that I KNEW, and nobody else did, were secret floorfillers. Plus he was a way better DJ than I was.

-- Diego Valladolid (dvallad...) (webmail), October 5th, 2004 11:56 PM. (dvalladt) (link)

I had a friend who wanted to dump an ipod full of stuff onto my hard drive a while ago, while she was between PCs, and it's still there. It makes up about 10% of my overall collection. And I never listen to any of it, it's completely meaningless to me. In fact, I should just delete it really. Hell, I'm going to do. Right now!

-- JimD (ji...) (webmail), October 6th, 2004 3:02 AM. (JimD) (link)

What kind of stuff is it?

-- Alba (albab...) (webmail), October 6th, 2004 3:04 AM. (Alba) (link)

It's a pretty wide selection of stuff. It's not that I don't listen to it because it's all rubbish, or anyhting, It's just cos it's not really got anything to do with me. I think music I like, I like because a) I've heard about it and wanted to get hear it. b) somebody has specifically given it to me, thinking I'd like it. Or c) I've heard it around and it's got a significance to me based on when and where I heard it. This stuff doesn't fit into any of those categories though, so just doesn't mean anything to me.

-- JimD (ji...) (webmail), October 6th, 2004 3:10 AM. (JimD) (link)

Oh. I have a few hundred tracks from of other ILMers' favourite ever tracks from that MP3 CDR swap that went on a while ago. I'm still working my way through them, but many have now been absorbed into 'my music' now. It's a bit weird when something comes on and someone asks what it is and I have no idea where I even got it from though.

-- Alba (albab...) (webmail), October 6th, 2004 3:16 AM. (Alba) (link)

use the google intitle: operator!

a. Most of my collection is from CDs, so the whole investment thing is OTM to me. I guess I really should jettison that thinking though.

b. I should be happy that he has access to all this music, but, in this particular case, my friend is a bit of a obsessive collector-type. He's more into the 'curatorial' aspect of this, rather than the actual new listening that he'll have. He owns thousands of movies that he's never watched. That really bugs me.

c. I'm an idiot for not using the search function properly.

everyone else has -- resale value of used CDs has plummeted in the last 2 years from people ripping and selling off entire collections, let alone letting friends copy 200GB drives -- you're lucky to get $2-4 per CD now, compared to $5-6 before, and retail used prices have not dropped, it's just that there's a seller's glut

what this means is that the CDs on your shelves are rapidly devaluing by the year

I meant emotional investment actually. As in, I remember when I found this copy of 3 Ft High and Rising, I was happy . . .

I know about the value. My house got broken into last year and they left all the CDs (except for the Bob Marley Songs of Freedom boxset).

I'm still not sure how this works exactly, but used record stores not pricing intelligently isn't something I'm surprised at this point.

Someone should post this about 40 posts into every single thread on here.

The 2nd edition of Evan Eisenberg's The Recording Angel adds a final speculative chapter to his historical overview of the impact of recording to people's relationship with music. decades from now, everyone streams from an infinite library and mocks the 'hoarders' who bother with actually retaining the files on their hard drives. except the infinite library is no longer actually infinite; after a long period of total access, libraries began trimming the less-accessed selections without too many people caring or noticing. the historical record is being left to isolated individuals who are all being roundly mocked for doing it. can't recommend that book enough.

Well, now he's an enemy more than anything.

Well, this dude was a total fucking leech, parasite, and a total hypocrite, liar, and was all around full of shit, and I was incredibly uncomfortable with just copying artists, (he also one told me he intended on borrowing every cd (200+) I own)

Sharing is caring, but leeching is not. . . Depends on the person and their intentions I guess.

-- cousin larry bundgee (bge...) (webmail), February 7th, 2007. (bundgee)

we need a script for this to automatically be the first response to every single thread that will ever be made

OTM, PROBABLY.

With the price of memory constantly collapsing?

We all know sharing wont kill music, it only changes the lines of distribution and production. The whole filesharing-thing is liberal (not communist) - new technology and new demands changes the conditons of the market (and music-consumption). Its nothing controversial. Markets change. The unliberal thing is the big companies that try to stop it. That has nothing to do with free trade and liberal values. Its capital speaking. Yes, You Mark My Words..

uh? What?

From: PhD Candidate for Economics.

"now he's an enemy" wasn't just a figure of speech, like I hate that guy, and NOT because he copied my files, but it helps.

And he was an asshole about it too.

File sharing, especially en masse, is not really socialism at all, it's just "I deserve free stuff for no good reason."

If you feel you need mass-produced music, you are implicitly affirming support of a capitalist product. It's not just that the artists need money to live, it also took money to record, produce, package, distribute, and even market that music (so that you got a chance to hear it). If you have such a problem with this, don't listen to the music. You can live without it.

-- Hurting (Hurtingchie...) (webmail), October 5th, 2004 12:22 PM. (Hurting) (link)

I still stand by this. A little file-sharing here and there doesn't kill anyone, but the more people come to believe they have a right to obtain a lifetime's worth of music free of charge in an instant, the harder it will become for anyone to make a living in music. If this doesn't happen, it'll be because there are enough non-douchebags in the world who think music is worth something.

Well yeah, I know that's sort of a standard line about this, but it's not a complete solution. I don't want to get too into this debate here, but I do have a sort of ethical problem with the idea of getting thousands of albums for nothing. Each of those albums represents a considerable time and money investment from artists and those that back them, and there's something spoiled and ungrateful about just grabbing as much as you can and dumping it on your hard drive.

I get tons of free CDs working at a radio station. There are not enough hours in the day to listen to them. So I'm not necessarily a collector of MP3's but I do maintain quite a healthy collection.

I'd agree apart from the selfish and evil bit. I'd happily guide someone towards something I have or maybe offer something new but to present it as a fait accompli I feel wouldn't invite much effort to listen to or appreciate what I was offering! Especially not if it was just a person being all completist about it!

Suddenly coming into ownership of 100 gigs of detroit techno 12"s is somehow very different to seeking out these records individually (whether online or in record stores). It's not so much about the money but about process of 'choosing' something to buy.

This ties in with above so OTM me and tpp!

Why the hell would someone be a 'collector' of MP3s that you don't listen to???

:( I'm a bit of a hoarder. There is the occasional purge but some I just can't let go!

Balance is the key. (It helps that there are things I am generally not interested in at all, like TV.)

I sort of think he doesn't deserve it! but I know it will take him forever to go through and find anything he likes/is worth listening to so what the hell

what about taking shit from iPods? a certain band left their iPod at my friends' house in Oberlin, and we listened to it out of curiosity, and realized it might have been one of the best iPods we'd ever been privy to. so before sending it back to said band, i ripped three GBs off of it. those three GBs have altered my life and i am ever-thankful to the wild drugs that led to band leaving iPod at friends' house. i don't feel bad about it, but after reading this thread, i think that some people might think i'm an ass?

Still, this thread illustrates something interesting about the collector's mentality, which is obviously still prevalent even in the digital age. It's not just about what you DO have, it's what others DON'T have that defines your tastes. If other people have it too it's devalued.

(xpost)

hah, I often wonder about this. Like, what's the privy to knowing about that one guy from Liverpool that just came out of his bedroom
before anyone else
or historically otherwise.
yeah, sometimes (unfortuneately) its a hard mentality to wedge yourself out of.

now you know better.

it is called senuti and it is here.