Jackin' Pop and Pazz & Jop merged stats

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[Stats thread spun off from the thread for fighting about differences.]

Here, if you're interested, are the leaderboard and some album clustering for a ballot-by-ballot merge of the 2006 Jackin' Pop and Pazz & Jop polls.

The overall results in the two polls don't initially look like they differ by much, especially when you ignore point-values and ballot-ordering. But if you rearrange the results by the percentage of their support they got from one poll or the other, you get some unsurprising, but unexpectedly coherent, results. At one end, Elvis Costello and Allen Toussaint got 23 votes from P&J voters, but only 8 from JP voters, and Bob Dylan got 97 and 74. At the other end, DJ Drama and Lil Wayne's Dedication 2 got 23 votes from JP and only 11 from P&J, and Clipse got 101 and 65.

The points of firmest agreement between the two polls were Neko Case (61 from JP, 64 from P&J), and Jenny Lewis (40 and 40). Solo albums, apparently, are universal.

Anybody have any other statistical questions you idly wished you could ask, but weren't about to waste your time actually computing?

― glenn mcdonald (glenn mcdonald), Friday, 9 February 2007 22:03 (eighteen years ago)

Nice work, glenn.

I'm going to put up this link again in case people want to see some of those discrepancies between the polls in terms of points rather than votes.

― jaymc (jaymc), Friday, 9 February 2007 22:07 (eighteen years ago)

As always, thanks Glenn!

― Ned Raggett (Ned), Friday, 9 February 2007 22:07 (eighteen years ago)

I have to say, the one I'm most surprised by is 45:33 getting more votes on P&J than on JP.

― jaymc (jaymc), Friday, 9 February 2007 22:11 (eighteen years ago)

because Rob set down ground rules (it's an album, not track) and I didn't; I probably should have.

― Matos W.K. (M Matos), Friday, 9 February 2007 22:14 (eighteen years ago)

Ah you're right. I remember that now.

― jaymc (jaymc), Friday, 9 February 2007 22:17 (eighteen years ago)

Looking over the voter-to-voter correlations, the most overlap any two voters had was 7 albums. All but two of the 7-album-overlap pairs share only albums from the very top of the poll, and thus are not very interesting. And one of the other two is brothers.

But then there's this pair:

Rob Michaels

Ali Farka Toure · Savane
Boris · Pink
Brightblack Morning Light · Brightblack Morning Light
Citay · Citay
Clipse · Hell Hath No Fury
Hot Chip · The Warning
J Dilla · Donuts
Kraftwerk · Bremen Radio 1971
LCD Soundsystem · 45:33
Miles Davis · The Cellar Door Sessions 1970
Om · Conference of the Birds
Raconteurs · Broken Boy Soldiers
Shogun Kunitoki · Tasankokaiku
Six Organs of Admittance · The Sun Awakens

Mike Rubin

Ali Farka Toure · Savane
Booka Shade · Movements
Brightblack Morning Light · Brightblack Morning Light
Clipse · Hell Hath No Fury
Henrik Schwarz · DJ-Kicks
Hot Chip · The Warning
Jeff Samuel · Step
Kraftwerk · Bremen Radio 1971
LCD Soundsystem · 45:33
Shogun Kunitoki · Tasankokaiku
Trentemoller · The Last Resort
v/a · The DFA Remixes, Chapter One

Disappointingly, some web-searching suggests that they already know each other, so I don't get to introduce them.

― glenn mcdonald (glenn mcdonald), Friday, 9 February 2007 22:35 (eighteen years ago)

BUT GLENN EVERY CRITICS POLL HAD THE SAME ALBUMS IN IT SO OBVIOUSLY EVERYONE IS VOTING FOR THE SAME ALBUMS AND THEREFORE YOUR ACTUAL HAVING LOOKED AT THE BALLOTS CAN'T POSSIBLY MEAN ANYTHING etc.

― Matos W.K. (M Matos), Friday, 9 February 2007 22:43 (eighteen years ago)

Who are the brothers? Tom and Jim Breihan appear to only share four albums.

― jaymc (jaymc), Friday, 9 February 2007 22:44 (eighteen years ago)

Is there a link to voter-to-voter correlations?

― Mark (MarkR), Friday, 9 February 2007 22:51 (eighteen years ago)

Chris and Brent Baldwin. Although since they filed similar ballots, but one in each poll, they might actually be the same person. Anybody know?

And no, the voter-to-voter stuff isn't up. Yet, anyway. It's a little more complicated to extract into a useful single HTML page.

― glenn mcdonald (glenn mcdonald), Friday, 9 February 2007 23:16 (eighteen years ago)

Brent Baldwin writes for an alt-weekly in Richmond, Virginia. "Chris Baldwin" from Richmond had a comment published in Pazz and Jop in 2004. That's all I can find.

― jaymc (jaymc), Friday, 9 February 2007 23:23 (eighteen years ago)

Oh noes, the Baldwin-cloning experiments have expanded from film to music criticism!

― Joseph McCombs (Joseph McCombs), Friday, 9 February 2007 23:43 (eighteen years ago)

nice job Glenn.

― curmudgeon (DC Steve), Saturday, 10 February 2007 02:41 (eighteen years ago)

I'm friends with Brent and they are both him I think.

― Mark (MarkR), Saturday, 10 February 2007 03:00 (eighteen years ago)

Mark, what weekly does Brent write for?

― without me, it was tie! (Rrrickey), Saturday, 10 February 2007 03:07 (eighteen years ago)

OK, I've merged them.

― glenn mcdonald (glenn mcdonald), Saturday, 10 February 2007 14:33 (eighteen years ago)

Mark, what weekly does Brent write for?

-- without

Richmond Style Weekly (which I also contribute to)>

― Mark (MarkR), Saturday, 10 February 2007 22:37 (eighteen years ago)

OK, everybody but me has probably long since stopped thinking about this, but my dayjob now involves data-modeling and analysis, so I get to keep trying things as long as I keep thinking of them.

So here, because I thought of some vastly improved math for it yesterday, is the long-threatened and occasionally requested voter-similarity list.

For this one I have cross-compared all the voters in the merged poll and produced the top 10 most similar other voters for each. If you aren't one of the voters yourself, this is probably crashingly uninteresting to you. If you are, though, these are 10 nominees for your new best friend...

― glenn mcdonald, Thursday, 22 February 2007 20:38 (eighteen years ago)

Whoa.

― Ned Raggett, Thursday, 22 February 2007 20:42 (eighteen years ago)

That's awesome. Based on singles votes, too, yes?

― Tim Ellison, Thursday, 22 February 2007 20:45 (eighteen years ago)

Cool. I've got Southall, markp, and Sean Gramophone on my list.

― jaymc, Thursday, 22 February 2007 20:48 (eighteen years ago)

Anthonies Easton and DeCurtis WOULD make a nice couple.

― Andy K, Thursday, 22 February 2007 20:56 (eighteen years ago)

Man, I am totally going to DO IT with Ann Powers!!!!

Maria Tessa Sciarrino JP

Ann K. Powers JP (0.302)
J Neo Marvin P&J (0.291)
Dan Ruccia JP (0.28)
Patrick McNally JP (0.276)
Steve Mizek JP (0.225)
Carl Wilson JP (0.213)
Randall Roberts P&J (0.213)
David Browne JP (0.206)
Michael Hoinski P&J (0.193)
Roy Henderson JP (0.193)

― theoreticalgirl, Thursday, 22 February 2007 20:59 (eighteen years ago)

Album votes only. There are fewer singles ballots, and less overlap, so for statistical purposes the singles ballots are both less rewarding to analyze and more trouble to reconcile between polls (and between voters). So I just ignore them.

(No moral judgment of singles, singles voters or singles-only voters is intended by this statistical decision.)

― glenn mcdonald, Thursday, 22 February 2007 21:05 (eighteen years ago)

hi frank! hi mark p! :)

yeah i would've guessed that if singles had been factored in my correlation with rich juzwiak would've been much higher seeing as half our singles matched. he has the same surname as someone i used to know, weird.

― lex pretend, Thursday, 22 February 2007 21:09 (eighteen years ago)

The voter-similarity list makes me wish I'd managed to turn in a ballot for either!

― nabisco, Thursday, 22 February 2007 21:11 (eighteen years ago)

Here's an LOL for you

Dom Passantino

JP Todd Burns P&J+JP (0.193)
David Moore P&J+JP (0.193)
Ethan Padgett JP (0.116)
Mike Powell P&J+JP (0.103)
Frank Kogan P&J+JP (0.092)
Matthew Perpetua P&J+JP (0.092)
Josh Love P&J+JP (0.092)
Sterling Clover P&J+JP (0.092)
Hillary Brown JP (0.087)
Douglas Wolk P&J+JP (0.087)

― deej, Thursday, 22 February 2007 21:14 (eighteen years ago)

nabisco otm

― David R., Thursday, 22 February 2007 21:21 (eighteen years ago)

That Dom Passantino example above is a good one for seeing how the magnitude numbers in parentheses work.

Dom has one album in common with each of Ethan Padgett, Matthew Perpetua and Douglas Wolk. In Ethan's case it's Boss Hog Barbarians' Every Hog Has Its Day, for which Dom and Ethan were actually the only voters. Dom and Matthew's is Marit Larsen's Under the Surface, which got 7 votes total. Dom and Douglas' is Sparks' Hello Young Lovers, which got 9. So the fewer people voted for something, the more similarity it indicates.

― glenn mcdonald, Thursday, 22 February 2007 21:36 (eighteen years ago)

awesome! my new pals:

Jem Aswad P&J+JP (0.346)
Kyle Proehl JP (0.317)
Thomas Golianopoulos JP (0.281)
Jonathan Zwickel JP (0.275)
Eric Grandy JP (0.273)
Ron Mashate P&J (0.27)
Piotr Orlov JP (0.268)
Dan Wolovick JP (0.252)
Mike Wolf JP (0.247)
Diego Hadis P&J (0.247)

― max, Thursday, 22 February 2007 21:47 (eighteen years ago)

I'm afraid Barry Walters is the only name I recognize from my new best friends, but based on what I've seen him write about in the Voice and elsewhere, I'm not surprised to see him on my list. Glenn, you are a wonder of arts and letters; thank you.

Joseph McCombs P&J

Andrew Harrison P&J (0.201)
Ryan Baucom JP (0.157)
Alan Wiley JP (0.15)
Robert Nedelkoff P&J (0.127)
Parke Puterbaugh P&J (0.127)
Julian Cram JP (0.119)
James Rodgers P&J+JP (0.119)
Barry Walters P&J (0.119)
Jer Fairall P&J (0.119)
Pat Pierson P&J (0.118)

― Joseph McCombs, Thursday, 22 February 2007 21:59 (eighteen years ago)

HI DERE FRIENDS:

Dominique Leone P&J+JP (0.177)
Brandon Stosuy JP (0.155)
Grayson Currin JP (0.15)
Jay Ditzer JP (0.15)
Aaron Burgess JP (0.15)
Robert Nedelkoff P&J (0.147)
Bobby Tanzilo P&J+JP (0.12)
Adrien Begrand P&J+JP (0.098)
Jon Caramanica P&J (0.098)
Erik Kenward P&J+JP (0.098)

― Ned Raggett, Thursday, 22 February 2007 22:10 (eighteen years ago)

Wow.

― curmudgeon, Friday, 23 February 2007 05:11 (eighteen years ago)

Oh man, I'm not matched with anybody (sob). But I'm not homogeneous, so Chris Ott must love me, right?

― AKA Mr. Jaq, Friday, 23 February 2007 05:35 (eighteen years ago)

This is so fucking cool

― Whiney G. Weingarten, Friday, 23 February 2007 07:11 (eighteen years ago)

Not bad company at all:

Christopher R. Weingarten P&J+JP

Zach Baron P&J (0.234)
Ethan Padgett JP (0.204)
Jon Caramanica P&J (0.202)
Marty Brown JP (0.168)
Martin De Leon JP (0.168)
Sia Michel JP (0.168)
John Seroff P&J+JP (0.168)
J. Edward Keyes P&J+JP (0.168)
Melissa Maerz P&J+JP (0.166)
Josh Eells P&J+JP (0.166)

― Whiney G. Weingarten, Friday, 23 February 2007 07:18 (eighteen years ago)

Here's an LOL for you

Ah, you gotta laugh.

― Dom Passantino, Friday, 23 February 2007 09:40 (eighteen years ago)

Mine, some of whom are actual pals:

Austin L. Ray P&J+JP (0.288)
August Brown JP (0.243)
Andy Beta P&J+JP (0.243)
Justin Chun P&J+JP (0.241)
James Blount P&J (0.235)
Steve Mizek JP (0.228)
Marc Weidenbaum P&J (0.228)
Cameron MacDonald P&J+JP (0.228)
John M. Cunningham JP (0.222)
Rich Juzwiak JP (0.215)

― Mark Rich@rdson, Friday, 23 February 2007 14:16 (eighteen years ago)

noz, ethan, sean fennessy and tom breihan are among mine. No real shocker i guess

― deej, Friday, 23 February 2007 15:50 (eighteen years ago)

Chuck Eddy

JP Brian O'Neill P&J+JP (0.12)
Michael Patrick Nelson P&J+JP (0.12)
Werner Treischmann P&J+JP (0.11)
Don Allred P&J+JP (0.11)
Stephen Thomas Erlewine P&J+JP (0.11)
George Smith P&J (0.11)
Franklin Soults P&J (0.109)
Eric Danton P&J (0.109)
K. Ross Hoffman P&J+JP (0.094)
Tom Ewing P&J (0.094)

― xhuxk, Sunday, 25 February 2007 18:52 (eighteen years ago)

I like how you, Don and George form a clear mafia. (But I'm also not surprised at Tom E. being in there!)

― Ned Raggett, Sunday, 25 February 2007 18:56 (eighteen years ago)

Well, the three of us all voted for Leanne Kingwell, right? And I don't think anybody else did, and as Glenn says, "the fewer people voted for something, the more similarity it indicates."

― xhuxk, Sunday, 25 February 2007 19:04 (eighteen years ago)

Christgau is gonna do a pazz and jop presentation at the EMP Pop Music conference in Seattle

― curmudgeon, Tuesday, 27 February 2007 15:35 (eighteen years ago)

Abstract:

"The First (Or Last) Pazz & Jop Lecture: Has the True Critics' Poll Become a Museum Piece?"
For the 32 years I was employed by The Village Voice (plus one more) I oversaw the Pazz & Jop Critics' Poll, which began as an informal survey of a few dozen close colleagues and soon blew up into, first, the occasion for a lengthy year-summing essay and, as of 1984, a nationwide critical forum edited by moi. In 1997, at the instigation of Voice music editor Eric Weisbard, Pazz & Jop went digital and the ever-increasing electorate mushroomed, reaching 793 and 795 the past two years.
Before the Voice fired me on August 31, but well after the paper's critical direction had turned toward the anti-intellectual, I'd begun thinking about what I would write about this year's poll. Although in recent years I've tried to make my essay about history and culture rather than criticism, I thought it would be coy in the extreme to ignore the elephant in the room, and so I'd downloaded two brief, smart disquisitions on criticism by Simon Reynolds and Chris Ott that I hope I can find on my desk. But as I've had to say many more times than I would have figured, I wasn't sorry Pazz & Jop was out of my life. I was proud of it, I learned from it, and I felt a professional obligation to do it right, but the work it required, especially as the electorate ballooned, had long since removed January from my life and was taking its toll on Christmas. Also, the poll itself had become less meaningful as the electoral age spread increased, especially because so many younger critics think consensus is for other people—or theirs alone.

To emphasize that Pazz & Jop never reflected some deeply felt need to exert authority, I not only refused several offers to do the poll elsewhere, but turned down various opportunities, the most attractive tendered by Jody Rosen and Ann Powers at Slate, to write about the year (although I did do an online radio colloquy with my new colleagues at NPR). When Gawker announced its Jackin' Pop Poll—if they ever do another one, they're going to regret that name—I was briefly tempted by their offer to buy the Dean's List, my annual list of my favorite albums, but soon decided to forgo that payday as well. But then it suddenly hit me that EMP is different. If there's anywhere that exemplifies the spirit of what I wanted the Voice music section to be, it's EMP. And so I'm proposing that I do some version of the Pazz & Jop essay as a lecture. Its exact shape I can't predict till I see how both Pazz & Jop and Jackin' Pop come out, but for sure it will reflect on the results, the state of rock criticism, and polling itself. I have other specific thoughts that I'd rather not make public and may abandon. But usually I've managed to extract something interesting from the form, and I hope EMP gives me the opportunity to continue that tradition this year.

― curmudgeon, Tuesday, 27 February 2007 17:38 (eighteen years ago)

Marc Hogan P&J+JP

Scott Plagenhoef P&J+JP (0.463)
Luke Hackney P&J (0.456)
Jeff Klingman JP (0.445)
Stephen M. Deusner P&J+JP (0.343)
Brian Raftery JP (0.316)
Peter Lansky JP (0.309)
Douglas Wolk P&J+JP (0.308)
Jonah Weiner P&J+JP (0.282)
Nick Sylvester P&J (0.28)
Ryan Dombal P&J (0.279)

This makes sense! More amusingly, I'm on Eric Elb0gen's list. (for reference, see http://www.sayhitoyourmom.com/news.htm?page=5)

― marc h., Tuesday, 27 February 2007 19:02 (eighteen years ago)

PFM mafia

― jaymc, Tuesday, 27 February 2007 19:05 (eighteen years ago)

I only showed the first 10 for each voter, but Marc, Eric Elbogen is 14th on your list. Actually, your connection to him is slightly higher (.268) than his to you (.241). Of the albums you two didn't share, yours were more popular, so the fact that he didn't vote for any of your other 7 is more unlikely than vice versa. But you made his top 10 because he had fewer stronger connections...

― glenn mcdonald, Tuesday, 27 February 2007 19:34 (eighteen years ago)

Your next mission Glenn should be something like this.

Because while it is awesome seeing who is in my top 10, it is also awesome to see who is in the top ten of my top ten. Something graphical would make exploration really fun.

And since you have so much free time on your hands, I'll look forward to that applet next week.

thanks for all your work!

― Dandy Don Weiner, Tuesday, 27 February 2007 20:23 (eighteen years ago)

Josh Langhoff P&J

George Smith P&J (0.12)
Todd Kristel P&J (0.116)
Glenn Dixon P&J (0.092)
Michael Azerrad P&J (0.092)
Kevin John P&J (0.092)
Banning Eyre P&J (0.092)
Alastair Johnston JP (0.092)
David Dacks JP (0.092)
Richard Gehr P&J (0.092)
Dave Herrera P&J (0.061)

My vote for Congotronics 2 netted me a bunch of Ali Farka Toure voters. Does that mean I have to listen to him now?

― dr. phil, Wednesday, 28 February 2007 01:26 (eighteen years ago)

I wonder which essays Xgau has on his desk there.

― Mark Rich@rdson, Wednesday, 28 February 2007 02:24 (eighteen years ago)

Ott must feel proud.

― curmudgeon, Thursday, 1 March 2007 14:39 (eighteen years ago)

Ethan Padgett JP

David Drake JP (0.269)
Christopher R. Weingarten P&J+JP (0.158)
Sean Fennessey P&J+JP (0.158)
Toure P&J (0.149)
Dom Passantino JP (0.114)
Jon Caramanica P&J (0.106)
Oliver Wang JP (0.103)
Tara Henley P&J (0.103)
J. Edward Keyes P&J+JP (0.103)
Jessica Koslow P&J (0.103)

― and what, Thursday, 1 March 2007 16:04 (eighteen years ago)

'Sup then.

― Whiney G. Weingarten, Thursday, 1 March 2007 17:04 (eighteen years ago)

My closest wasn't actually ethan, though - it was some dude named Trent Fitzgerald

― deej, Thursday, 1 March 2007 17:06 (eighteen years ago)

Isn't the closest actually who appears at the bottom of the top ten? Or am I interpreting the numbers incorrectly?

― Ned Raggett, Thursday, 1 March 2007 17:07 (eighteen years ago)

David Drake JP

Trent Fitzgerald P&J (0.314)
Ethan Padgett JP (0.294)
Andrew Nosnitsky P&J+JP (0.28)
Jonathan Bradley P&J+JP (0.234)
Kyle Proehl JP (0.177)
Sean Fennessey P&J+JP (0.172)
Adrian Covert JP (0.165)
Tom Breihan P&J (0.158)
Andrew Friedman JP (0.158)
Chairman Jefferson Mao P&J (0.146)

― deej, Thursday, 1 March 2007 17:07 (eighteen years ago)

yo jessica koslow
http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/4/42/Gesture_raised_fist_with_thumb_and_pinky_lifted.jpg/200px-Gesture_raised_fist_with_thumb_and_pinky_lifted.jpg

― and what, Thursday, 1 March 2007 18:55 (eighteen years ago)

No, they're in order, so closest is at the top.

― glenn mcdonald, Thursday, 1 March 2007 23:44 (eighteen years ago)

Dan Epstein P&J (0.179)
Rossiter Drake P&J (0.175)
Rich Bienstock P&J (0.171)
Melissa Maerz P&J+JP (0.141)
Scott Mervis P&J (0.141)
Michael Patrick Nelson P&J+JP (0.137)
Chuck Eddy JP (0.137)
Alex Henderson P&J (0.135)
Nick Green P&J+JP (0.135)
Matthew Fritch P&J (0.133)

Hi Chuck!

― NYCNative, Saturday, 3 March 2007 21:59 (eighteen years ago)

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