"Fr-fr-fresh"....Who did it?

3 Fresh MCs?

Cmon! Help a brother out.

bump.....cuz I need to know...

dmx krew

Doesn't chuck have a rolodex full of tidbits like this????????

pappawheelie to thread.

yeah Pappa oughta know

Wasn't Grandmixer D St. the first to cut it on Herbie Hancock's Rockit?

The original (Fab 5 Freddy's Change the Beat) and this were both released on Celluloid just months apart.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=S7dAxvj2mlU

Wasn't Grandmixer D St. the first to cut it on Herbie Hancock's Rockit?

That's what I thought too, wasn't like 10 minutes of Scratch dedicated to interviews with DJs remembering the first time they heard it?

Wasn't Grandmixer D St. the first to cut it on Herbie Hancock's Rockit?

It was on a record by Grandmixer D St called "Megamix II (Why Is It Fresh?)" that was on Celluloid. (It wasn't a very big record but I know because I worked at Celluloid back then...)

http://www.discogs.com/release/52058

It was then used as a sample (by whoever was in charge of that sort of thing) on Rockit.

So why is it fresh?

It's on the Fab 5 Freddy track, which predates D St.'s solo track according to Celluloid's catalog.

http://www.discogs.com/label/Celluloid

CEL 156 Fab 5 Freddy / Beside* Change The Beat
CEL 173 D.St. Megamix II: Why Is It Fresh?

Not sure if Rockit predates Megamix II (I'm 99% sure it did), but it clearly wasn't sampled in Rockit, it was scratched. On the Wild Style commentary, Freddy talks about how Grandmixer cut "his record" Change the Beat's "Fresh" on Rockit..

D St.did his own solo tracks for Celluloid after the success of Rockit I believe.

Despite this debate, I'm curious if you were part of the crew that hung with Ruza Blue as she took Grandmixer and Freddy from Negril in 1982 to Roxy in 1983. It's been said the Celluloid staff got involved with Hip-Hop via her "Wheels of Steel" party. A member of Rock Steady I quized said Grandmixer was the innagural DJ for the Negril party, even trhough Bambaataa is more associated with it in the longrun.

Haha, we're both wrong.

Listening now, seems the first time Grandmixer cut it was in 1982, just two releases after Fab 5 Freddy said it on Change the Beat:

http://www.discogs.com/release/51966
CEL 156 Fab 5 Freddy / Beside* Change The Beat

http://www.discogs.com/release/51964
CEL 158 Grandmixer D. ST.* & Infinity Rappers, The Grandmixer Cuts It Up

I think this is the definitive answer.

Rockit was CBS 1983.
http://www.discogs.com/release/150410

Megamix II was CEL 173, 1984.
http://www.discogs.com/release/52058

Not sure if Rockit predates Megamix II (I'm 99% sure it did)

Heh, I'm 99% sure it didn't. I remember hearing Rockit and knowing exactly where the "fresh" thing came from. Yeah, "scratched" is possibly the word I should have used, although it really wouldn't surprise me if that was merely sampled in that production. I have to say I know absolutely nothing about the production of Rockit (hate it, for one thing), so I don't know, was Grandmixer involved in it? Who was cutting up on that record?

I have to parenthetically add what a huge Herbie Hancock fan I am and just what a low point I consider this to have been for him as an artist.

I don't remember the word "fresh" being in "Change The Beat" but if it was (and I defer to you as it has been 20 years at least since I have listened to it, though I used to spin it pretty regularly when it came out), then that must have been the sequence of events, which would explain why CEL 173 would have been called "Megamix" anything. (unless I am just forgetting another DST release that might have used it). BTW, "Change The Beat" was also not a very big record either and it was only Blondie's mention of Fab Five Freddy in the song "Rapture" that caused anyone to be interested in him. That record didn't sell worth a damn, before or after that either.

I was just a lowly grunt there, I didn't get to go anywhere but to their sewer of a bathroom (and thus am afraid I will not be much help to you on this question ). I used to hang out a bit with Geordie from Konk, who used to be the delivery guy for the label, but that was the closest I ever got to belonging to any crew from Celluloid (and frankly I didn't like most of the people there).

I would really be curious to hear more on the topic you are asking about though. I am not a real historian on this subject, but did live through my share of it in real life. I defer to your greater knowledge of it.

I think this is the definitive answer.

I think so, nicely done... :-)

Though, I would caution not to read absolute chronology out of the sequence of catalogue numbers on NY dance music records of that era. I could cite a hundred examples where that would put you into incorrect territory.

Even just in general, catalogue numbers are generally assigned on the basis of when a record was arranged to happen, and many times are not ready before the later numbered records are.

The last point I've painfully learned while researching other stuff.

I think scratching fresh became big solely due to its inclision on old bootlegged sample records, and its inclusion was something I think was a result of Rockit.

I was wrong about grandGixer being the innagural DJ at Ruza's Negril party -- it was Grand Wizard Theodore. Woops!

Funny that the very next record after Crazy Cuts was Phase 2's "The Roxy", making it full circle on the Ruza Blue/Celluloid connection.

What's up with this Negril party?!

Am i crazy or did nobody mention Davey DMX? Or is that a different Fresh? Same year.

I was thinking about that but I can't remember it all that well.

Well, that's more like it. But let me start off by saying that I just listened to Rockit, and didn't hear a coherently-scratched "fresh" anywhere. When in the song does it occur?

But let me start off by saying that I just listened to Rockit, and didn't hear a coherently-scratched "fresh" anywhere. When in the song does it occur?

Grandmixer scratches with some handclap from the intro until the bridge. In the bridge, theres nothing but a kickdrum and scratching fresh, which repeats again after a few bars, and scratcing fresh seems to go for the remainder of the song.

If you're saying you need to hear the entire word "fresssh" being played out for it to qualify, then I'm missing the point of this thread.

Dan, Davy DMX's One For The Treble came out a year after Rockit (same year as Megamix II). I think by 1984, it was very commonplace.

hmmm, having listened to it literally as little as possible, I can't say.

The original question is about that "Fresh" sample or scratch, whatever.

I am pretty sure it is D ST, with all of the above caveats, but would not be surprised if I just don't remember.

D St. changed his name to DXT a number of years back. Here's a recent piece on DXT, which cites his work on Rockit:

http://digitalmedia.oreilly.com/2004/11/24/dxt.html

testing nu-ilm

[tube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=S7dAxvj2mlU[/tube]

Well, yes, I'm talking about the whole word "fresh". The interest in this came from a discussion I had last week with my brother about Ali G's "fr-fr-fresh".

If I understand your querstion now, you're not interested in where it came from (Fab 5 Freddy), nor which song was the first to scratch it (Crazy Cuts), nor which song popularized it for use (Rockit), nor the fact that all of these come from the Ceeluloid Records camp between 1982 and 1984 primarily through one DJ (Grandmixer D St.), but rather, who was the first to use it and let it play long enough to make out each letter of the word "fresh"?

It basically says "resh" throughout Rockit. The song's ending riffs between Hancock's lead synth and Grandmixer letting "resh, resh" play out over and over. Hell, listeing close enough, it sounds like it's saying all of fresh to me a number of times. If that's not good enough, this really seems nit picky...

Anyway, the first time I heard someone cut it on record and use the entire Fab 5 Freddy vocoder piece was 2 Live Crew on Ghetto Bass in 1986: "the stuff is really fresh-fresh-fresh-fresssshhh"

Oh, Saxby, forgot to clarify the Negril/Ruza/Roxy connection.

The story is Ruza Blue was an employee of Malcolm McLaren's soho store. When Michael Holman met McLaren at Sam Este's Canal Zone loft space the summer of 1981, he took McLaren to Bronx River to see Bambaataa (Holman had been filming Bam since at least the "Beyond Words" show at the Mudd Club in April of 1981). That's when and where McLaren got into Hip-Hop. He booked Bam and Rock Steady as the opening acts for Bow Wow Wow at the Ritz in September of 1981, which is where Ruza Blue first saw Hip-Hop.

Blue was already hanging out at Negril for the Reggae nights, and they gave her a night of her own. She changed that into a Hip-Hop night in late 1981 and brought in Holman to help promote. It blew up huge, got shut down by the cops in early 1982, and Fab 5 Freddy took her to the Roxy for the first time dubbing her "Kool Lady Blue". She decided to move that tiny Negril night to the giant Roxy after a couple moths temporarily at Danceteria.

Some of the top brass at Celluloid began hanging around Ruza's night once at the Roxy, which got them into Hip-Hop. When the owner of the Roxy reportedly edged her out of her own night (after making a fuss about the possibility of a dance party runing his wood floor), she teamed up further with Celluloid to get together the overseas shows for Bam, Rock Steady, etc., which is what many UK people say was the first time they saw Hip-Hop outside McLaren's video (which she booked Rock Steady for anyway).

Prior to all of this, Michael Holman was a "cast member" of The Tubes!

Despite my initial intention for this thread, I gotta say that ALL of this stuff is great! Thanks, Pappa and Saxby.

The story is Ruza Blue was an employee of Malcolm McLaren's soho store. When Michael Holman met McLaren at Sam Este's Canal Zone loft space the summer of 1981, he took McLaren to Bronx River to see Bambaataa (Holman had been filming Bam since at least the "Beyond Words" show at the Mudd Club in April of 1981). That's when and where McLaren got into Hip-Hop. He booked Bam and Rock Steady as the opening acts for Bow Wow Wow at the Ritz in September of 1981, which is where Ruza Blue first saw Hip-Hop.

Blue was already hanging out at Negril for the Reggae nights, and they gave her a night of her own. She changed that into a Hip-Hop night in late 1981 and brought in Holman to help promote. It blew up huge, got shut down by the cops in early 1982, and Fab 5 Freddy took her to the Roxy for the first time dubbing her "Kool Lady Blue". She decided to move that tiny Negril night to the giant Roxy after a couple moths temporarily at Danceteria.

Some of the top brass at Celluloid began hanging around Ruza's night once at the Roxy, which got them into Hip-Hop. When the owner of the Roxy reportedly edged her out of her own night (after making a fuss about the possibility of a dance party runing his wood floor), she teamed up further with Celluloid to get together the overseas shows for Bam, Rock Steady, etc., which is what many UK people say was the first time they saw Hip-Hop outside McLaren's video (which she booked Rock Steady for anyway).

This is all very interesting, thank you.

haha "Celluloid brass" = some coked up French guy.

Wasn't everyone at Roxy coked up, including the 15 year old b-boys that Ruza was now managing?

BTW, Fab 5 Freddy (among others) will be at Housing Works Bookstore tomorrow discussing Whites and Hip-Hop culture, whatever that means. I will be there asking more questions on the TV Party/Canal Zone/etc. connections.

Well if you could actually call the cheapass shit I had back then "coke" then maybe... ;-)

I definitely think that a lot of people THOUGHT they were coked up, and that's really the important part of it.

haha, perfect post