Has ILM gotten "smarter" as time goes on?

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Apologies if this topic has already been done - I wouldn't have any idea how to search it.

Whenever I read threads that started more than a few years ago, I notice there's a lower level of sophistication in the dialogue, or at least less pretense of sophistication. Even some of the posters I find to be the smartest wrote things back then that I couldn't imagine them daring to write now. So has there been some general trend of posters sharpening each other? Does the hivemind learn?

― Hurting 2, Thursday, 1 March 2007 16:46 (eighteen years ago)

WAHT

― unfished business, Thursday, 1 March 2007 16:47 (eighteen years ago)

Well, that's a new one!

― Mark G, Thursday, 1 March 2007 16:49 (eighteen years ago)

i would like to respond, though i am condemned by the norm to keep my mouth shut

― Charlie Howard, Thursday, 1 March 2007 16:50 (eighteen years ago)

naturally i think the opposite has occurred.

― blueski, Thursday, 1 March 2007 16:51 (eighteen years ago)

i think people just grow more aware of the consensus and the various arguments that ilm is familiar with, where when they are relatively new they have no context in which to discuss things other than what they've brought with them when they show up on ilx.

― deej, Thursday, 1 March 2007 16:51 (eighteen years ago)

Ok, maybe not "smarter," but it seems like there's been a certain change in standards, like I can't imagine the thread about Jimi Hendrix being overrated carrying on the way it did in 2003 if it was posted now

― Hurting 2, Thursday, 1 March 2007 16:52 (eighteen years ago)

I'm with Steve.

― Scik Mouthy, Thursday, 1 March 2007 16:52 (eighteen years ago)

um yea sure

― 688, Thursday, 1 March 2007 16:52 (eighteen years ago)

But yeah maybe it's just a matter of what deej said about certain posters being here longer and getting used to what the consensus is.

― Hurting 2, Thursday, 1 March 2007 16:53 (eighteen years ago)

what steve said. i must admit i can't really comprehend how anyone could think that ilm-now is "smarter" than old-ilm.

― lex pretend, Thursday, 1 March 2007 16:54 (eighteen years ago)

Posts in general have got much shorter and less ruminative over the last... five years.

― Scik Mouthy, Thursday, 1 March 2007 16:54 (eighteen years ago)

everything changed after doglatin quit

― blueski, Thursday, 1 March 2007 16:55 (eighteen years ago)

after nabisco posts lets agree that this thread is over, k?

― deej, Thursday, 1 March 2007 16:56 (eighteen years ago)

hey, don't quote my shit, 688

granted, my question wasn't deeply founded... i wasn't pontificating about this shit before i posted it. i just happened to be listening to the record and was curious about other people's opinions. any harm done there? i seriously think i'm one of the most docile people here, yet i nevertheless get critiqued a fair bit. not altogether fair.

i totally agree with hurting about the hendrix thread, however...

― Charlie Howard, Thursday, 1 March 2007 16:56 (eighteen years ago)

for once i say: deej otm

― James Redd and the Blecchs, Thursday, 1 March 2007 16:57 (eighteen years ago)

A certain level of consensus/groupthink certaintly can prevail on a thread, but I'd maintain such groupthink is a disservice to interesting discourse.

― BIG HOOS aka the steendriver, Thursday, 1 March 2007 16:57 (eighteen years ago)

the hendrix thread is probably the most interesting read on new answers! what do you object to about it, that anyone could possibly think he IS overrated? is ilm that in thrall to the canon now? sad.

― lex pretend, Thursday, 1 March 2007 16:59 (eighteen years ago)

i don't know if a new 'Hendrix over-rated' thread done today would be that different. less interest possibly.

i revived the 'Dylan over-rated?' thread and that resulted in some new ridiculous indignation (not towards me - i just wanted to talk about his actually very good Radio 2/6 Music show!) recently.

― blueski, Thursday, 1 March 2007 17:01 (eighteen years ago)

sorry charlie, but if i think the thread is poor, im allowed to quote it

― 688, Thursday, 1 March 2007 17:04 (eighteen years ago)

or, im allowed to say so, is what i mean

― 688, Thursday, 1 March 2007 17:04 (eighteen years ago)

just don't hold a grudge ;)

― blueski, Thursday, 1 March 2007 17:05 (eighteen years ago)

i took caps lock off now

― 688, Thursday, 1 March 2007 17:06 (eighteen years ago)

http://www.ilxor.com:8080/ILX/ThreadSelectedControllerServlet?boardid=41&threadid=2330

Good old fashioned ILM

― Dom Passantino, Thursday, 1 March 2007 17:07 (eighteen years ago)

i basically read through all the answers, hoping that someone could offer a substantial reason for why hendrix was overrated, and there were just basically a whole bunch of dismal comments. nothing all that informed or interesting, and strangely not a great deal of objection to the original assertion

― Charlie Howard, Thursday, 1 March 2007 17:07 (eighteen years ago)

ILM has gotten a lot meaner, and people came off a bit dumber back when they were nicer and less paranoid about showing chinks in the armor.

― Alex in Baltimore, Thursday, 1 March 2007 17:08 (eighteen years ago)

alex in baltimore totally otm

― deej, Thursday, 1 March 2007 17:09 (eighteen years ago)

yup. you're too hip, ilx

― James Redd and the Blecchs, Thursday, 1 March 2007 17:11 (eighteen years ago)

part of that too, though, Al, is the slow realization that what you put on the internet = not disappearing anytime soon.

― deej, Thursday, 1 March 2007 17:12 (eighteen years ago)

i basically read through all the answers, hoping that someone could offer a substantial reason for why hendrix was overrated, and there were just basically a whole bunch of dismal comments.

my mind is spinning. for starters unless you have nabisco killfiled you should have read his, like, four-paragraph argument as to why hendrix may not be the best thing since sliced bread. please don't tell me you consider that insubstantial, i have read some of your opinions.

alex in baltimore otm - and if anyone does show chinks in the armour now, the thread devolves into zingzingzingzingzzzzzzz.

― lex pretend, Thursday, 1 March 2007 17:13 (eighteen years ago)

although really you could put it all down to "people like charlie howard arriving, people like tom ewing largely leaving"

― lex pretend, Thursday, 1 March 2007 17:14 (eighteen years ago)

My very presence has become a chink in the armour for some! :-D

― unfished business, Thursday, 1 March 2007 17:15 (eighteen years ago)

thank god i don't apply the same throwaway mentality to the share market as i do to my threads!

― Charlie Howard, Thursday, 1 March 2007 17:16 (eighteen years ago)

i'm with the people who say the opposite happened.

― modestmickey, Thursday, 1 March 2007 17:22 (eighteen years ago)

thanks lex, whatever

i read nabisco's comment about 'hey joe', was probably the best thing in the thread. otherwise there was some pretty half-hearted speculation that in short, didn't do any justice to the question raised and rendered it not worth asking in the first place.

i'm not equipped to argue coherently right now. i'm drunk on gin and am looking at an early wake up call (for work, alas). but lex, i'm here to talk about music. nothing else. certainly not to get personal.

― Charlie Howard, Thursday, 1 March 2007 17:25 (eighteen years ago)

I don't think it's gotten that much dumber, it's just that all of these smart posters that have hung around for so long are no longer willing to flex their intellects so much (i.e. "we done this before, etc."). And the newer folks don't have that bedrock to bounce off. We get one-word cutesy answers from the same dude who used to riff endlessly about his musics. But then my favorite thread is probably that one that sounded like a Snap song.

― pj, Thursday, 1 March 2007 17:31 (eighteen years ago)

pj + alex in baltimore have money under their asses.

― BIG HOOS aka the steendriver, Thursday, 1 March 2007 17:38 (eighteen years ago)

ok enough of that

― deej, Thursday, 1 March 2007 17:40 (eighteen years ago)

I mean lets be real, fear-of-zings is a pretty silly thing to drive people; its more the realization that you come off like a goofball, with or without zings; i said plenty of zingable shit in the past that no one called me on at the time that i still cringe about now, and not because i care that ethan would have made some sage francis crack in retaliation but more because i'm like 'good lord that was rather naive of me'

― deej, Thursday, 1 March 2007 17:44 (eighteen years ago)

good lord it was!

*bows*

― 688, Thursday, 1 March 2007 17:45 (eighteen years ago)

Zings are no worse than earnest brow-furrowing politeness that gets rapidly unpolite when it's argued with.

― Noodle Vague, Thursday, 1 March 2007 17:56 (eighteen years ago)

ILM never suffered fools gladly.

― blueski, Thursday, 1 March 2007 17:59 (eighteen years ago)

That Hendrix thread was started by someone who uses the term "political correctness" lol.

I remember that thread being mentioned on a Richard Thompson one shortly after, with Jess going "fuck ILX is way too in love with the canon these days". At any rate much of the ILM old-guard had already given up on the board by the time it rolled around, "has ILX dumbed down?" threads were already dime a dozen.

― Daniel_Rf, Thursday, 1 March 2007 18:00 (eighteen years ago)

http://www.ilxor.com:8080/ILX/ThreadSelectedControllerServlet?boardid=41&threadid=56430#unread

― James Redd and the Blecchs, Thursday, 1 March 2007 19:14 (eighteen years ago)

I'm a lot less strident in my opinions than I used to be. The old posts of mine that I'm most likely to shudder at are the ones that take this really firm line on something that I only knew a little bit about.

I wonder if many other old-timer ilxors have a similar sense of declining stridency.

― Tim F, Thursday, 1 March 2007 21:57 (eighteen years ago)

Hmmm...not sure, in my case.

― Ned Raggett, Thursday, 1 March 2007 21:59 (eighteen years ago)

I am baffled by this claim. Truly baffled.

― Nicole, Thursday, 1 March 2007 22:00 (eighteen years ago)

lex OTM upthread

― Shakey Mo Collier, Thursday, 1 March 2007 22:02 (eighteen years ago)

(or rather lex and alex in baltimore both OTM upthread)

― Shakey Mo Collier, Thursday, 1 March 2007 22:03 (eighteen years ago)

i had a lot more time to wax dumbly philosophical in my early 20s than i do now

― strongohulkington, Thursday, 1 March 2007 22:09 (eighteen years ago)

Skipping 541 messages at this point... Click here if you want to load them all.

louis we're on to mocking foreigners now, do keep up

― strongohulkington, Monday, 5 March 2007 16:38 (eighteen years ago)

quoting jess != the truth, the final word

I thought he was overreacting and it (hi dere old friend rockism debate) probably would have burned out in 50 posts.

― fandango, Monday, 5 March 2007 16:38 (eighteen years ago)

(As per usual I am kind of talking to myself with random scatological humor asides to play to the crowd.)

― HI DERE, Monday, 5 March 2007 16:40 (eighteen years ago)

louis we're on to mocking foreigners now, do keep up

Louis's greek, it's allowed.

― Dom Passantino, Monday, 5 March 2007 16:40 (eighteen years ago)

normally meta is a guilty pleasure, but this is excruciating!

― unfished business, Monday, 5 March 2007 16:41 (eighteen years ago)

i figured jagger was his stage name

― strongohulkington, Monday, 5 March 2007 16:41 (eighteen years ago)

half greek-cypriot, dom, get your facts right...

― unfished business, Monday, 5 March 2007 16:41 (eighteen years ago)

Why is it funny when jaymc divulges other people's personal info but megacreepy when anyone else does it?

― HI DERE, Monday, 5 March 2007 16:42 (eighteen years ago)

you'd think a couple of non-whites like louis and dom could find some common ground

― and what, Monday, 5 March 2007 16:42 (eighteen years ago)

with jaymc the creepiness is always implied so there's no need to comment or dwell on it

― strongohulkington, Monday, 5 March 2007 16:43 (eighteen years ago)

I think I speak for many ILMers when I say, on reading this thread, WHAT THE FUCK ARE YOU ALL TALKING ABOUT

― Ronan, Monday, 5 March 2007 16:43 (eighteen years ago)

race

― unfished business, Monday, 5 March 2007 16:44 (eighteen years ago)

Ronan = hero

― HI DERE, Monday, 5 March 2007 16:44 (eighteen years ago)

louis = gyro

― and what, Monday, 5 March 2007 16:45 (eighteen years ago)

I just woke up and kind of want to respond to various charges above, but I don't want to derail the Greek-bashing.

― BIG HOOS aka the steendriver, Monday, 5 March 2007 16:47 (eighteen years ago)

no xpost notification, fixed usernames, no "skip to unread answers", no "display only last 50 answers", no automatic hyperlinking of URLs... = ILM got dumber.

― fandango, Monday, 5 March 2007 16:48 (eighteen years ago)

but the greek bashing is a derail of the teenpop derail, which was a derail of the teenpop imposition, which was a derail of the original thread, and so derailing that wouldn't make a difference to the FUCKING ENORMOUS TRAIN WRECK that is this thread.

― unfished business, Monday, 5 March 2007 16:48 (eighteen years ago)

"Skip to unread" works for me dood.

― BIG HOOS aka the steendriver, Monday, 5 March 2007 16:48 (eighteen years ago)

"The Greek people are anarchic and difficult to tame. For this reason we must strike deep into their cultural roots: perhaps then we can force them to conform. I mean, of course, to strike at their language, their religion, their cultural and historical reserves, so that we can neutralize their ability to develop, to distinguish themselves, or to prevail; thereby removing them as an obstacle to our strategically vital plans in the Balkans, the Mediterranean, and the Middle East."

Kissinger OTM

― Dom Passantino, Monday, 5 March 2007 16:48 (eighteen years ago)

i was getting ready to ask if dom was reading geobbles now

oof. not a good look america

― deej, Monday, 5 March 2007 16:49 (eighteen years ago)

I don't mind the homosexuality. I understand it. Nevertheless, goddamn, I don't think you glorify it on public television, homosexuality, even more than you glorify whores. We all know we have weaknesses. But, goddammit, what do you think that does to kids? You know what happened to the Greeks! Homosexuality destroyed them. Sure, Aristotle was a homo. We all know that. So was Socrates. You know what happened to the Romans? The last six Roman emperors were fags. Neither in a public way. You know what happened to the popes? They were layin' the nuns; that's been goin' on for years, centuries. But the Catholic Church went to hell three or four centuries ago. It was homosexual, and it had to be cleaned out. That's what's happened to Britain. It happened earlier to France.

- Ashlee Simpson

― and what, Monday, 5 March 2007 16:53 (eighteen years ago)

I have the greatest affection for them [blacks], but I know they're not going to make it for 500 years. They aren't. You know it, too. The Mexicans are a different cup of tea. They have a heritage. At the present time they steal, they're dishonest, but they do have some concept of family life. They don't live like a bunch of dogs, which the Negroes do live like.

- Aly, of Aly & AJ

― BIG HOOS aka the steendriver, Monday, 5 March 2007 17:01 (eighteen years ago)

do we really need to fake racist remarks by teenpop iconz when we have Paris doing it for real?

― Alex in Baltimore, Monday, 5 March 2007 17:03 (eighteen years ago)

very good hoosteen

― and what, Monday, 5 March 2007 17:04 (eighteen years ago)

It was not suddenly bred.
It will not swiftly abate.
Through the chilled years ahead,
When Time shall count from the date
That the Saxon began to hate.

-Vanessa Hudgens

― Curt1s Stephens, Monday, 5 March 2007 17:04 (eighteen years ago)

youll never get the coveted 'hoosteen otm' if you keep on as a biter

― and what, Monday, 5 March 2007 17:04 (eighteen years ago)

has paris ever been in xxl's negro please??

― and what, Monday, 5 March 2007 17:05 (eighteen years ago)

Why covet hoosteen otm when I can get called faggy gay fag on the regular?

― BIG HOOS aka the steendriver, Monday, 5 March 2007 17:06 (eighteen years ago)

have you been hanging out with mickey?

― strongohulkington, Monday, 5 March 2007 17:06 (eighteen years ago)

The film begins with Hilton topless in a bathroom with the camera on her breasts. She shows her face briefly before stepping out to the room (it appears to be a hotel suite).

Hilton is now behind the camera with the night vision on. Nixon has a robe on and has an erection. Then Nixon takes the camera from Hilton and the two have sex. Nixon shoots the scene from a point-of-view perspective as the camera zooms in on the vaginal penetration. (It is also discovered at this point that Hilton's pubic hair is shaved.)

The scene then shows Hilton answering her phone. Nixon tells her to hang up and the two continue having sex. (Paris: "Wait. Let me get my phone." Nixon: "Yo, fuck your phone!")

Hilton now has Nixon on a chair in front of the TV and begins performing fellatio.

Next is a similar scene from the beginning where Hilton is videotaping herself once more topless in front of a mirror.

The movie shifts briefly with the two on a plane and then a swimming pool at an exclusive resort.

Hilton then goes to the hotel's bedroom and sits on chair where Nixon removes her panties. She takes a sip of champagne. Nixon jokingly tells her she is underage and should not drink.

The two move to the bed where the camera is set across from it to show Nixon penetrating Hilton vaginally from behind and with her leg on his shoulder.

In the next scene, Hilton has Nixon on a chair and is now completely naked while performing fellatio on him once more. This session goes on for almost seven minutes straight. After a while, Nixon ejaculates on her breasts to end the film.

― and what, Monday, 5 March 2007 17:08 (eighteen years ago)

!!!!!!!

― Curt1s Stephens, Monday, 5 March 2007 17:08 (eighteen years ago)

it was the only logical progression

― unfished business, Monday, 5 March 2007 17:09 (eighteen years ago)

srsly

― BIG HOOS aka the steendriver, Monday, 5 March 2007 17:11 (eighteen years ago)

ok I'm outta this thread before I become part of a trifecta with LJ and Hoosten

― Curt1s Stephens, Monday, 5 March 2007 17:12 (eighteen years ago)

you can be their mascot

― and what, Monday, 5 March 2007 17:13 (eighteen years ago)

Did she give him the classic "five seconds to go" hand countdown?

― Mark G, Monday, 5 March 2007 17:14 (eighteen years ago)

we're the chorus of ILM

― unfished business, Monday, 5 March 2007 17:17 (eighteen years ago)

"Lily Allen shot to fame on the back of Myspace, but she's better known for her hyphy ska pop"

― Dom Passantino, Monday, 5 March 2007 17:17 (eighteen years ago)

Good old shooting on backs!

― Mark G, Monday, 5 March 2007 17:19 (eighteen years ago)

I notice there's a lower level of sophistication in the dialogue, or at least less pretense of sophistication

― BIG HOOS aka the steendriver, Monday, 5 March 2007 17:40 (eighteen years ago)

At first I was assuming that was referring to Cynthia Nixon and I was very scared.

― HI DERE, Monday, 5 March 2007 18:15 (eighteen years ago)

Anyway, a reason why posts are generally shorter is surely that people are aware that with no xpost warning they have to respond fairly quickly, for fear of losing the thread of debate amidst the replies of others, and the typing-time can be cut with a pithier response.

― unfished business, Monday, 5 March 2007 20:49 (eighteen years ago)

ilx ruined

― JW, Monday, 5 March 2007 21:38 (eighteen years ago)

There was no xpost warning back in the Greenspun days, either, but then again there were only a couple dozen regular posters, so it felt a little bit more like an email list than a chat room.

― nabisco, Monday, 5 March 2007 21:41 (eighteen years ago)

Anyway, a reason why posts are generally shorter is surely that people are aware that with no xpost warning they have to respond fairly quickly

Or hit "Refresh" right before they post.

― Curt1s Stephens, Monday, 5 March 2007 21:44 (eighteen years ago)

Yeah, but.......

.....

;_;

― unfished business, Monday, 5 March 2007 21:48 (eighteen years ago)

i'm hallucinating. i was certain that i posted on this thread but i can't find my posts anywhere. BOO

― nathalie, Tuesday, 6 March 2007 10:10 (eighteen years ago)

you did post, but you need to load the whole thread to read them (ctrl+f 'skipping' to find the link quickly)

― blueski, Tuesday, 6 March 2007 11:14 (eighteen years ago)

http://i63.photobucket.com/albums/h143/Aramyr/bad-dudes.jpg

― gershy, Thursday, 8 March 2007 06:20 (eighteen years ago)

Gershy, is your real name Ann Coulter?

― curmudgeon, Thursday, 8 March 2007 15:15 (eighteen years ago)

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