Messthetics - next volume

Wow, I wish I'd seen more of this discussion when it was active.

I think of Rip It Up like an early-80s, Anglicized version of Our Band Could Be Your Life. Not comprehensive by any means, and missing a few key players, but a reasonably complete picture of how a hard-to-define scene came to be. For Simon to focus on the relative big names (most of which weren't so big here in the US) isn't revisionist, it's realistic and in line with the book's desire to tell a story. Whether post-punk should be shoved into a linear format is a subject for debate, but I'd argue that Rip It Up is more useful by focusing on Pere Ubu and The Fall rather than The Homosexuals.

Perhaps what we really need is not another new book, but a reissue of the first two Volume books - especially Volume #2: The International Discography of The New Wave. I've thumbed through my friends' copies, and it's amazing how many thousands of labels were going, most of which are completely forgotten now.

This might interest you:
http://collectorscum.com/volume3/

more useful by focusing on Pere Ubu and The Fall rather than The Homosexuals.

more useful to whom, though? i wonder if you mean "beginners." i suppose there are some books of this type that i liked. nicholas schaffner's british invasion book was significant for me when i was a teenager because that's where i first read about and saw pictures of syd barrett-era pink floyd, the incredible string band, and tyrannosaurus rex.

i know people will defend reynolds' affection for the music discussed in the book as genuine, but a book like psychotic reactions and carburetor dung was ultimately much more significant for me in reading what felt like genuine passion for things like the godz.

and actually, in one sense, the godz aren't a good comparison because you couldn't say that they had the chops to kick butt over the buffalo springfield, but when you listen to disc one of astral glamour you can definitely say the homosexuals had the chops (not to mention spirit) to kick butt over, say, gang of four.

so, whatever that's worth...

I've just been skimming through Clinton Heylin's new book, "Babylon's Burning" and while it's not specifically about post-punk it does cover that era well. I especially liked his chapter on Manchester where he goes into more detail than Reynolds about such Mancunian precursors as the Manchester Music Collective. A musician's cooperative I knew next to nothing about. He also gives more personal insights into the lives of Mark E. Smith and Ian Curtis than Reynolds does. While it's certainly not an alternative history to Reynolds it is a good supplement.

a lot of the people from the Manchester Music Collective ended up on releases on the Object Music label, one of the more interesting labels of the time.

I've got to hear quite a few Object Music releases thanks to Mutant Sounds. The label should be better remembered than it is.

The main guy behind it had a sex change and pretty much disavowed the label. I've been talking to somebody else with hopes of doing something, but who knows.

There is very little about Object on the net. If you could re-issue any of it that would be wonderful.

all I've found online is this:

http://www.angelfire.com/indie/object_music/object.html

Finally managing to listen through a lot of vol. 103 and, honestly, I don't think it's at all as strong as the first two in the new series. Apart from the tracks you already know or expect to be great by Versatile Newts, Prefects, Swell Maps, and Spizzoil, the only other things I found interesting were the Accused and 021. Otherwise, there's really a lot of mediocre DIY pop-punk and English wackiness as was the case, I thought, with volumes from the original Messthetics series.

Finally managing to listen through a lot of vol. 103 and, honestly, I don't think it's at all as strong as the first two in the new series.

Agreed. I think the regional focus is going to make some volumes much stronger than others simply due to having many more options to pick from.

I haven't heard much about volume 104, I don't even know what region it's supposed to cover. Chuck's looking for the debut single from God's Gift called "These Days":
"Chuck Warner of Hyped2Death has pegged them as a must-find band for his awesome archival label's Messthetics series, and with any luck, they might appear on Messthetics #104 or #105, which Chuck promises to include "substantially odder/more primitive" material than what we've enjoyed on 100-103."

I'm still digging the post-punk mine. Regarding Dan's comments:
Then there was Cherry Reds "Seeds" compilations...James Kyllo's attempting to do a post-punk/power-pop/punk-rock etc Nuggets, only he did it in the late 80s.

And the first bootlegs of the DIY stuff I saw were two records called Instant Pop Classics that came out of Germany in the late 90s/early 00s...

Neither of these series were released on CD, nor have I seen them blogged. Anyone have them available?

I have been looking for Seeds V (Electronic) for ages now. I have the other four (Pop, Rock, Art and Punk). They're definitely not on CD.

Ah that might explain why I've never been able to find them (Seeds comps) on Slsk.

The punk one's the worst - it's got Abrasive Wheels 'Army Life', Puncture 'Mucky Pup', Panik (what was that called?) and for some reason includes Buzzcocks 'Love You More', which seems a bit unnecessary. I can't remember what else is on there - will have to look tonight.

I love Mucky Pup! As you may remember since we were discussing Small Wonder at the FAP recently. Abrasive Wheels were rubbish though.

I do remember! Yes AW were utterly shite - Army Life sounds like its recorded at the bottom of a toilet. I forgot to look what's on Seeds IV last night. What's that Panik song called - it's bugging me now.

Could it be "Murder"?

I have all the Seeds comps except for "Pop" I think. Electric is what got all this started for me in the first place. Weren't there two volumes of Rock or am I confused?

I know you love comps, Mr. Odd, but lots of the tracks from these volumes as well as the Instant Pop Classics bootlegs have appeared on their own CDs and/or can be found online, legit or not. I'll try to post some tracklists, although there was some sketchy website for Instant Pop Classics which mentioned a third volume that never came out.

Chuck is working on Scotland among other regions...

Was it the dude from that band Metabolismus that put out those Instant Pop Classics albums?

I don't know. Somebody in Germany I think. Is that a different band than the very mysterious Metabolist? I think I leant my copies out because somebody burned me a CD of them, so I don't have the "liner notes" any more. Here's a tracklist:

http:/✧✧✧.geocit✧✧✧.com/kb✧✧✧@rog✧✧✧.c✧✧/punk_comps_fm.html#IPC

http:/✧✧✧.geocit✧✧✧.com/kb✧✧✧@rog✧✧✧.c✧✧/punk_comps_fm.html#IPC

I'm sorry, I have no idea why that's not working. Google it. You'll also see Ceci Moss playing a bunch of tracks off it on her internet radio show, though she lists the Gynaecologists' The Red Pullover as being on it, which it wasn't, though it's my favorite song on Seeds V.

I found a post from Chuck about Messthetics 104. While 103 wasn't all gold, it still had lots of gems as I'm sure this will too.

-------------------------

Hi - I'm putting together a couple compilations of Welsh "D.I.Y." and indie postpunk 1977-82 along with a few of the more experimental/unusual things from the punk scene. The first volume is Messthetics #104...

Here are the bands I'm working with so far (and some of the songs where they've already been chosen)

Czechs - Suffocation
Decadent Few - There's a Place
Flying Brix
Immortal Invisibles
Sane
Discount Chiefs – In a Different Light
Crash Action Winners
Reptile Ranch - Lifeguard
What to Wear
Hugh Volk – Robot
Current Obsessions - Fish
Decadent Few - Burning Caroline
Trwynau Coch
Chromosomes
John Evans/Marlon – Underworld
Puritan Guitars - Making It…

Maybe also Boywonders, Janet & Johns, Tax Exiles, Ralph & the Ponytails, Addiction and Spitfire Boys. I'm working on contacts (please help if you can) for Autonomes, Industrial Chipmunks, Lost Boys... and I'm still curious about bands I haven't heard, including many of those mentioned in this forum [All Welsh Punk forum] (in case it helps you to figure out what I'm looking for, however, DC10s and Tunnelrunners are too close to "straight" punk. Yah, I know it's perverse to leave'em out...)

Hi all. These should be our first (or second) thing in the new year. Asterisks are never-released, ** are/were cassette-only. Oh, and the He's Dead Jim CDR is out now.

http://www.hyped2death.com/m104_book372.gif
Messthetics #104 –South Wales (v.1)
1 Czechs - Suffocation + 44 Seconds
2 Current Obsessions - Fish
3 What to Wear - The Robbery
4 Tax Exiles - (I Don't Believe in) Miracles **
5 Flying Brix - Uniform
6 Immortal Invisibles - No Zip
7 Spitfire Boys - Funtime
8 Decadent Few - There's a Place *
9 Sane - Arnold Palmer *
10 Discount Chiefs - In a Different Light
11 Table Table - Magic Moments *
12 Crash Action Winners - Hurricane Fighter Plane
13 Reptile Ranch - (Don't Give the) Lifeguard (a Second Chance)
14 Addiction - Violence
15 Boywonders - He Man
16 Hugh Volk - Talk of the Town
17 Decadent Few - Burning Caroline
18 Ralph & the Ponytails - James Bond
19 Janet & Johns - I Was a Young Man
20 What To Wear - We're the Martians Now
21 Ralph & the Ponytails - Splendid Stories
22 Discount Chiefs - Smell of Fossils *
23 Puritan Guitars - Making It
plus 6 bonus MP3s by Reptile Ranch*, Filmstars*, Tax Exiles**, Sane*, John Marlon*, and Autonomes*

http://www.hyped2death.com/m104_book372.gif
Messthetics #105 –Scotland (v.1)
1 SCROTUM POLES -Helicopter Honeymoon
2 FIRE ENGINES -New Thing in Cartons (demo)
3 35mm DREAMS -More Than This
4 EXILE -Jubilee 77
5 COMMERCIALS -Simon
6 FAKES -Sylvia Clarke
7 METROPAK -You’re a Rebel
8 TONY PILLEY -Waiting for the Man to Come *
9 VISITORS -Moth
10 ARTICLE 58 -Event to Come
11 RADIO GHOSTS -Falling Into Darkness *
12 RAPID DANCE -Hidden So Well
13 STRUTZ -Break Point
14 METROPAK -Looking
15 VERTICAL SMILES -New Clash Single **
16 ETTES -A Conversation *
17 RESTRICTED CODE -New Messiah
18 RADIO GHOSTS -My Room
19 BRILLS -Gang of One
20 RHYTHM METHOD -Insight **
21 DIRTY REDS –Bad Sex *
22 HE'S DEAD JIM -Towel on the Radiator/ Lampshade **
23 JAZZATEERS -Blue Moon Over Hawaii *
24 PAUL REEKIE -Lovers
plus 9 bonus MP3s by Scrotum Poles*, Article 58*, Friction, 35mm Dreams*, International Spys*, Vertical Smiles*, Restricted Code*, Cats Eyes*, and Commercials**

http://www.hyped2death.com/iHDJ-cvr300.gif

Sorry it's taken so long!

Chuck/hyped2death.com

Sorry -there's no preview window for windy self-promotional messages. The first line should have read "These should be out first (or second) thing in the new year"

& here's the proper art for #105
http://www.hyped2death.com/m105_book372.gif

-C.

i find a lot of scrappy/diy stuff from that era fascinating.

but if a band sounded like this nowadays i'd hate them, it's weird.

anyone know what i mean?

Chuck you are a fucking HERO.

YAY!!!

Ralph & The Ponytails are playing a show in Newport, this weekend I think, did you know that Chuck?

I only know the Fakes song from the old Instant Pop Classics bootleg...looking forward to this as usual.

I really should have jumped on this years ago!

"The New Clash Single" wins for sheer gall!

rad

1 SCROTUM POLES -Helicopter Honeymoon
Oooh Dundees finest, I can't for the life of me remember this, but I'm sure its a fave. I remember them as kinda Dog Faced Hermansish

4 EXILE -Jubilee 77
I have this ep, its lovely, I was wittering away the other day on a thread here about them, comparing them to 2.3

6 FAKES -Sylvia Clarke
No 'factory' then? Hah! They later became ege bam yasi

7 METROPAK -You’re a Rebel
The last time I mentioned them online I had said I'd seen them live and they were a pretentious jazz punk art project - one of them emailed me to point out they once supported Angelic Upstarts and that I'd probably seen them on an off night. Haven't heard this, looking forward to it.

9 VISITORS -Moth
On the same label as The Fakes, often supported bands in Edinburgh - I loved them playing to The Ruts audience - wire -ish post punk.

10 ARTICLE 58 -Event to Come
One of them late produced Hanson and married Clare Grogan I think.

13 STRUTZ -Break Point
Is this them that later became Laughing Academy?

16 ETTES -A Conversation *
Wow, I didn't know the Ettes had any recordings, Edinburgh Girl band, played a lot with the Delmontes and The Flowers.
ver Hawaii *

24 PAUL REEKIE -Lovers
Is this the guy who was in The Thursdays but not in Boots For Dancing

A couple of classics are missing, but its pretty good selection.
The Intrinsics from Inverness, some of the Aberdeen bands (erm, can't think of any others apart from the Tools, but there were others and some of the Glasgow stuff like Fun 4.

Of course I'd have been really impressed if you'd got some things like Kirkcaldy's Nationwide or Cowdenbeath's Dancing Pigs.

didn't paul reekie put out an album last year? i'm sure i have it somewhere.

oh, and sandy, if you are still reading - i may have asked you this before and forgotten but do you remember / know anything about an edinburgh band called the new york pig funkers? last sighted around 1984. i saw them play in princes street once and have it in my head that they were scotland's answer to liquid liquid but that could be my memory playing tricks on me and i've never encountered anyone else who remembers them.

ps - clare grogan is married to stephen lironi. was he in article 58??

I was trying to remember why the name Stephen Lironi rang a bell so I googled him and up came the discogs page for the Fire Engines reissue. He played (additional) drums on Big Gold Dream.

Messthetics 104 (Wales) and 105 (Scotland) arrived the other day. After just one listen, 104 is similar to 103 in that it's a bit patchy with strong moments wheras 105 is really strong, similar to the London volumes with almost no duff tracks. The first dozen tracks are incredibly strong, one great post-punk gem after another.

But these things require a number of plays before they really sink in and often things that didn't strike me at first I totally dig later.

I enjoy picking up these comps as I find em. A fun game, really.

Once upon a time, when Chuck first started making comps, he restricted himself to just putting great songs on cassettes as "buying aids" to steer people away from fixating on the Killed by Death material (which, of course, he'd mostly provided Johann in the first place). He needed to sell some stock! So every cassette was a non-stop hit-fest. Then he went to cd-rs, then to licensed cd-rs, then to the current regional cds. But the mounting restrictions of theme and rights have meant that the current batch can't be like those first cassettes. They ebb and flow a bit; I doubt that every song will appeal to any one listener. But they're increasingly valuable collections. They also sound better than they used to and are on real cds, not cd-rs, so they should hold up better. I'd like to see him tackle some labels (which I've mentioned to him). Barclay Towers anyone? And I also want a Boston art-punk double cd, greedy as I am....

Can you post any of the original cassette tracklistings?

There were at least a dozen, with often 20 tracks to a side (punk rock!), so I'd drive myself crazy, but here's the most relevant one: Hyped to Death Volume 5: UK DIY [R&S]. This was the first attempt at Messthetics, though it does favor the punkish side of the sound over the weak and squiggly.

Side 1
1 Scrotum Poles — Radio Tay
2 Seize — Why?
3 Sods — Negative Positive
4 Spherical Objects — The Knot
5 Six Minute War — Camera
6 Rubella Ballet — Something to Give
7 Scritti Politti — Messthetics
8 Steppes — God's got Religion
9 Stockholm Monsters — Soft Babies
10 Reflections — 4 Countries
11 Royston — Gerald's Eyes
12 Reducers — We Are Normal
13 Record Players — 67
14 Restricted Code — From the Top
15 Czechs — Suffocation
16 Spitfire Boys — Funtime
17 Six Minute War — Giles Hall
18 Surgeons — Breaking Rocks on Riker's Island

Side 2
1 Reacta — Sus
2 Sema 4 — Up Down Around
3 Rest — Raga
4 Strutz — Break Point
5 Spunky Onions — How I Lost My Virginity
6 Sods — Moby Grope
7 Surgeons — Sid Never Did It
8 School Meals — Headmaster
9 Record Players — Don't Go Backwards
10 Scissor Fits — Aniseed Trail
11 Stereotypes — Lovers of the Future
12 Sara Goes Pop — Fleeced
13 Decadent Few — Burning Caroline
14 Stepping Talk — Common Problems
15 Scrotum Poles — Helicopter Honeymoon

Not only is every song a pretty catchy hit, they're also edited to run into each other--no dead air--which keeps the energy up. A pain if you were trying to grab one song for your own mix, though. Great car listening. Now you get the whole song, each one set apart, of great archival value, but less fun....

Some others in the series?
Volume 1 (US Punk 45s R&S--Schematics, Sins, Reactors, Recipients, Stiphnoyds, RPA, Slugs, Scream...)
Volume 4 (Powerpop 45s R&S--Scruffs, Shivvers, Screen Test, Speedies, Shy, Squares, Rockers, Regular Guys, Red Ball Jets...)
Volume 18 (US Art/experimental 45s R-U--Reversible Cords, Tanks, Sickness, Smegma, Static, Unit 3 With Venus, Tenants...)
Volume 3 (UK Punk 45s R&S--Sex Pistols [Anarchy demo], School Ties, Seize, Shapes, Razar, Squad, Riff Raff, Stoat, Squibs...)
Volume 8 (US DIY R-U--Red Asphalt, Snots, Silver Abuse, Slivers, 2x4's, Story of Failure, True Believers, Special Affects...)
Volume 13 (UK Punk/Mod--Tights, Subs, Thermometers, Stiffs, Threats, Valves, Tearjerkers, Tonight, The Stoat, TV21, UXB...)
Volume 7 (Euro Punk R&S--Rebels, Sozz, Sperma, Schund, Silver, Starshooter, Slobodans Undergang, Railbirds...)
Volume 16 (Euro Punk S&T--Toto Lotto, Trockener Kecks, Streebers, Sperma, 39 Clocks, Tømrerclaus and Boline Erfurt, Squits..)
Volume 2 (US and Canada punk R&S--Subverts, RAF, Razer, Reruns, Red Squares, Realtors, Roach Motel, Sorex, Mike Rep, Spys...)
Volume 7 (NZ and Oz 45s R-U--This is Heaven, Screaming Mee-mees, Strange Loves, Riptoids, Sunday Painters, Thought Criminals, Proud Scum, Trans 262, Scapa Flow, Slugfuckers, Shoes this High...

There were others, but these are the ones I've got. No liners, just xeroxed graphics and track listings with year, label, and geographical info.

As you may know, the various series started in "R" and "S" because that's where Chuck was in his cataloging (he used to put out sales catalogs for specific parts of the alphabet: 7"s H–Me, for example. Sometimes with geographical sections for DC, Boston, Seattle, though those got phased out over time.

Thanks for that, Michael - I'm going to make a playlist with whatever I've got from that tracklisting.

I wish Chuck would publish "ideal playlists" - the compilation that he'd put together ignoring rights or availability. That'd be another fun avenue for fans of this genre to pursue.

I guess someone could do a blog along those lines, or put together a DVD-r of the top 500 UK diy vinyl....Johann mentioned once to me about a plan of his to do a 10 cd-r box of his top 100 diy 7"s--the full records, not just single songs. And a book, too. But I think he got sidetracked into hip-hop's first wave and the Big Apple Rappin' comp. Our loss. But it wouldn't be too hard to take his list from Ugly Things (plus the supplement he did in a later issue) and jam it together with Chuck's work to come up with an ultimate Messthetics.

This is not an ultimate Messthetics, but after a year or two of his tapes and cds, I made this UK cd up for a curious friend. All my faves from the time (and they're all still great), but so much has come in since then——thanks mostly to Chuck.

1, Beyond the Implode - This Atmosphere
2, Desperate Bicycles - Smokescreen
3, Animals and Men - Terraplane Fixation
4, Young Marble Giants - Include Me Out
5, Anorexia - Pets
6, Autopilot - Love is a Process
7, The Arnold - God is Walking a Tightrope Too
8, Colours - Deidre is an Artist
9, Cravats - Situations Vacant
10, Sods - Pictures of Us
11, Scritti Politti- Messthetics
12, Artery - Heinz
13, Swell Maps - Let’s Build a Car
14, Decadent Few - Burning Caroline
15, Homosexuals - My Night Out
16, Astronauts - All Night Party
17, Bloated Toads - Happy Home
18, Cracked Actor - Disco
19, Desperate Bicycles - Advice on Arrest
20, Prats - Nothing
21, Homosexuals - Technique Street
22, Reacta - Sus
23, Reducers - We are Normal
24, Spunky Onions - How I Lost My Virginity
25, Homosexuals - You are not Moving the Way you are Supposed to
26, Seize - Mistakes
27, Scrotum Poles - Helicopter Honeymoon
28, Six Minute War - Big Week
29, Thin Yoghurts - Girl on the Bus
30, Visitors - Moth
31, Cindi and the Barbi Dolls - In Silence
32, Tronics - My Baby's in a Coma

Volume #108 is out! I've only had one listen but there's lots of gems, as usual.

http://hyped2death.com/catalog/product_info.php?products_id=203

#108 is excellent.

The Seeds: Pop comp is also great, has an awesome Vital Disorders track on there.

Intend to pick up most of the Messthetics bits over this year.

It's been over a year, any word on #109 or the DIY women volume?

Is this project over and done? Any other Messthetics-like stuff come out over the last few years?

Surely some reissues on lp would go ok

This would fit in perfectly with this series:
https://www.discogs.com/master/2630834-Various-Un-Scene-Post-Punk-Birmingham-1978-1982

Frankly, I haven't seen many interesting post-punk compilations the last number of years. Perhaps the barrel is well and truly scraped?