Mental illness in pop

I think the important thing is to be honest about your motives. Hip- hop for example. Part of why I listen to hip-hop is that the people doing it seem cool and tough, and part of why they do that is the violence and part of it is the American exotica and part of it is probably the blackness too. Similarly there is something romantic and attractive to me about pale miserable skinny boys. Do I think it's unhealthy? Yes. Do I do it anyway? Yes. Does it affect how I relate to people in real life? This is the crucial question. I would hope not, but I don't know.

I think there are more interesting ways to write about pop than focussing on details of the artists' lives, so I dont have much time for critics who glamorize mental instability, violence etc. But I can't deny it's there as a listener.

Certain kinds of mental instability lend themselves to pop production more than others. I'm generally suspicious of records made by people who are 'depressed' because my experience of depression was ruled entirely by a a complete lack of confidence and inability to act, let alone express myself creatively. Drake's 'Pink Moon' captures the mood but very little else does. But then to other people - even to me, even when I'm empathising - he's a very glamorous figure.

This is a great topic. It's a human thing, this fascination with "insanity" or whatever you want to call it, and I think Tom's right: the thing is to be honest about it. Denying that's it's part of the appeal, from Van Gough to Rimbaud to Syd Barrett to Brian Wilson & Lee Perry & Kevin Shields, just seems in bad faith. It's fun to listen to something and think, "Wow, this is so far out there...and no wonder! The creator was crazy."

I do have to say, though, that my interest in these unstable fringe characters has diminished with time. Around 1987, I was so obsessed with Brian Wilson I saved any clippings about him I could find (Jesus, how embarrassing...this was before the Internet, you understand.) But now I just feel sorry for the guy and wish people would leave him alone. Sure, his illness & drug abuse probably had something to do w/ the music he made, but I'm so much more interested in the idea of HARD WORK. That's where 95% of great art comes from, perspiration not inspiration. (That's where light bulbs and record players come from, too, according to Edison.)

before she got the dosage right kristen hersh's music seemed all the more ferocious, likely this was only because i was aware of her instability but she hasn't matched her early intensity in a while. yet, now that she seems to be full of wedded and motherly bliss and free from the peaks and valleys i can't distinguish her from suzanne vega.

That's the worst, when someone seems borderline insane (or more likely on a lot of drugs) and gradually calms down with age. You know you should be happy that they didn't die or do something stupid to themselves, but really you're just wishing they'd freak the fuck out.

Classic example being Miles Davis, who seemed to calm down a bit towards the end of his life but whose last musical phase was arguably his worst. If it was large quantities of smack that had made Bitches Brew possible, part of me says 'so be it'.

this should definitely be encouraged when it comes to michael jackson. if he would make a thriller part 2, he wouldn't need to put on any make-up...

i would not like music if it was not for michael bourke introducing me to oasis. NOEL ROCKS

I'm always surprised how easily people accept lables of "insanity" or "mental illness". Sure, poor old Syd had his brains fried on acid, but with so many artists and writers what passes as "mental illness" is often the necessity of going beyond conventional ideas of normality to express themselves. Was William Blake mad? Well, he claimed to spend his time conversing with the prophet Ezekiel, but I think he's one of the few sane people in Western History. I think it may be our "normality" that should be questioned. As for the original question.... all creativity should be encouraged.

There is an argument about that the evolution of the human counciousness (which must have evolved in tandem with our bodies and was obvouisly the more important of the two) was pushed forward the 'mad' schizophrenic, manic depressive et al. These people tended to be religously and/or artistically inclined and were naturals for positions as priests, druids, shaman, bards, storytellers. They built the mythologies, religons, stories and verse (mythos) which logic, reason, science (logos) grew out of. Art, stories and song have always served as a way for people to relate to each other and the world and it has often been people who see world from a unusual perspective who have served to broaden the scope of the human imagination. Whether the toll that being at odds with the world takes on them is worth it you would have to ask them and I'm sure you'd get a mixed response. I don't see our encouragment as being very relevant although Van Gogh might have lived to a ripe old age on the riviera if he'd sold a few paintings.

The thing about Syd was he was fragile before the acid trips in Chelsea then he just kept on taking them.Roky has been ill for years.Obsessive behaviour usually makes way for great art...

As an aside, please check out Irwin Chusid's "Songs In The Key Of Z." Lots of discussion of mental illness and music there, from Jandek to Wesley Willis, Wildman Fischer, Skip Spence, and beyond.

Well, I'd better cut&paste it into *here* then, hadn't I? :)NO. Firstly, I'm not even sure of what you mean by "psychotic". Many (though not all) of the people you cite are more what I'd call drug burn-outs. It's pretty sad, when it's someone like syd barrett. A clever & imaginative writer whose talent was fux0red up by drug abuse. I'd rather have had more good syd barrett albums that 1 good one, 1 half-good one, and a tragic myth. You'd be better looking at the work of folks like Peter Hammill, Dagmar Krause, Florian Fricke and Shirley Collins. Their work is just as good/strange, if not moreso than the above. The "nack story" isn't so depressing either. I know I tend to mock some of your posts, but this time I'm being serious Paul. You should check out the above artists. Peter Hammil's "Nadir's Big Chance" kicks the ass of any of the above, for example.

xoxo

errr... that's "back-story", not "nack-story". "nack-story" sounds like it could be quite interesting, though :)

xoxo

Would Phil Spector be classified as mentally ill under obsessive behaviour???

Hmmm....

Syd Barrett, the acid brought out the latent schizophrenia as lsd does have the potential to do....

Skip Spence, can't be encouraged because he is dead. But that album, emotionally haunting piece of work. Same with Alex Chilton, on Sisterlovers.

Daniel Johnston's Hey Joe can always make me weep.....

So, are the mentally fray, true, or more true to the muse than thom yorke or multiple stahhrr breakdowns like AJ. Maybe, this sort of music is so human that it's embarrassing?

Dunno..