A Question About Kode9 and Burial:

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I looked for threads of a similar nature, but none were forthcoming, so I apologize if I'm rehashing old terrain. With that out of the way....

I've been listening to and enjoying the new Burial and Kode9 CDs the past couple of weeks--to the exclusion of almost everything else, in fact--and though I don't really know enough about the music called "dubstep" to talk about either artist's relationship to it, both Burial and Memories of the Future struck me more immediately and on a deeper level than most of the other so-called and self-described dubstep I've heard.

Anyways, my question is: are Kode9 and Burial the same person? Or rather, is Kode9 Burial? My reasons for suspicion are not airtight, but they are manifold:

- I noticed that Burial is the only artist on Hyperdub apart from Kode9 and a lone Kevin Martin single. Not only that but Burial's CD was released--on Hyperdub--months before Kode9's. All I mean is that it seems strange, Kode9 releasing another person's record on what is ostensibly his label before he even puts out his own full-length.

- Burial doesn't, to the best of my knowledge, publish press photos, bio information, or even his(?) real name.

- Burial uses the vocal track from "Victims" on "Spaceape," which I guess is not ironclad evidence in and of itself considering that they share a label.

- Both seem to hew towards the cerebral, nervy side of dubstep, and almost feel like two sides of the same coin even, Burial being the personal and Kode9 (+ Spaceape) the political.

I could be all wrong of course. I only bring it up because I've never read anything suggesting such a thing before, and it seems like an awful lot of coincidences in one place. If it is true, it would certainly give me a newfound appreciation for Kode9 to know that he's capable of switching between seething and heartbreaking so deftly. I guess the icing on the cake would be to find out that he's also the Spaceape, but then again I've seen pictures of Kode9 and it seems unlikely.

― Gendou Ikari, Friday, 23 March 2007 20:08 (eighteen years ago)

It's been suggested a number of times actually and Burial himself has denied it in this interview. It's possible he was lying, but I doubt it.

― Alex in SF, Friday, 23 March 2007 20:44 (eighteen years ago)

Kode9 has denied being Burial in interviews as well.

― StanM, Friday, 23 March 2007 20:47 (eighteen years ago)

I guess that settles that!

― Gendou Ikari, Friday, 23 March 2007 20:59 (eighteen years ago)

Rumours of Burial playing out some time this year. That would probably put paid to the theory.

― jim, Friday, 23 March 2007 22:08 (eighteen years ago)

i suppose the one reason to refute your theories is that they don't sound at all similar, not that that proves anything but i reckon if kode 9 was doing a secret side-project he'd have the nous to release it on a label other than his own.

― jed_, Friday, 23 March 2007 22:25 (eighteen years ago)

Kode9 said there was a new Burial album planned in the second quarter of this year when he was interviewed on a Belgian radio station in December of last year. No idea if that's still on the cards, that's the last I heard about it.

― StanM, Friday, 23 March 2007 22:54 (eighteen years ago)

Whatever happened to the Plastician (glah that name) LP?

― Alex in SF, Friday, 23 March 2007 22:58 (eighteen years ago)

Typical story. Was due out a while back, but it's been put back. How long's a piece of string basically.

― jim, Friday, 23 March 2007 23:01 (eighteen years ago)

Haha, just checked. Was due in November/December. Fuck sake.

― jim, Friday, 23 March 2007 23:02 (eighteen years ago)

gah at all dustep names. they all sound like D&B castoffs.

― jed_, Friday, 23 March 2007 23:04 (eighteen years ago)

Well one good thing about dubstep dudes is that even though their album's never come out at least you can put them together from Bleep (for the most part.)

― Alex in SF, Friday, 23 March 2007 23:05 (eighteen years ago)

Plasticman was a great name, I think, even though apparently the cheekiness was unintentional as he'd never even heard of Hawtin.

― Alex in SF, Friday, 23 March 2007 23:06 (eighteen years ago)

Loefah sounds loofah and thus I always think of Bill O'Reilly when I hear his name.

― Alex in SF, Friday, 23 March 2007 23:08 (eighteen years ago)

It's pronounced Low-fah though.

― jim, Friday, 23 March 2007 23:12 (eighteen years ago)

I mean't it looks like loofah.

― Alex in SF, Friday, 23 March 2007 23:17 (eighteen years ago)

i always thought a loofah was some sort of sea creature but actually it's a big vegetable - like a giant okra.

― jed_, Saturday, 24 March 2007 01:42 (eighteen years ago)

loofah gourd

http://khmerkromrecipes.com/photo_recipes/loofah.jpg

― jed_, Saturday, 24 March 2007 01:49 (eighteen years ago)

Ah, so the loofah for scrubbing my back is similar to the calabash I serve my yerba mate in? My earth really is full of things,

― jim, Saturday, 24 March 2007 01:57 (eighteen years ago)

I reckon Burial is El-B, the 2 step don of 'buck and bury' fame from the ghost label...

...the drum patterns, even though burial said and I'm paraphrasing, 'were moulded from the template of EL-b's cold drum sound' are very similar and who better to put the ghost of 2 step to rest in mournful style than a past champion of the sound

― pollywog, Monday, 26 March 2007 20:59 (eighteen years ago)

I'm fairly sure Burial is a nobody.

― jim, Monday, 26 March 2007 21:01 (eighteen years ago)

how so are you sure ???

― pollywog, Monday, 26 March 2007 21:03 (eighteen years ago)

Because he sounds like a nobody in interviews.

― Alex in SF, Monday, 26 March 2007 21:06 (eighteen years ago)

Because there's no reason to think that he isn't and because everyone who has had dealings with him says he isn't (Kode 9, Martin Clark).

― jim, Monday, 26 March 2007 21:07 (eighteen years ago)

that was part of the marketing angle though...

...anonymity buried under disinformation

from the beginning though BuriaL propped L....B

...and there are ghostly aural signifiers you just can't buck

IMHO

― pollywog, Monday, 26 March 2007 21:10 (eighteen years ago)

no shit jim...

...can you point me to where K9 and blackdown say it isn't El-B ???

― pollywog, Monday, 26 March 2007 21:12 (eighteen years ago)

What ghostly signifiers? Marketing angle? No-one got rich off the Burial album.

― jim, Monday, 26 March 2007 21:12 (eighteen years ago)

Blackdown said as much on the dubstepforum. Kode 9 has definitely mentioned that Hyperdub is the only place Burial has ever sent tunes to and has been doing so since 2001. His early efforts being just a take on garage, which pretty much rejects the El-B theory.

― jim, Monday, 26 March 2007 21:17 (eighteen years ago)

the drums man...

...the patterns El-b was famous for are echoed and buried under layers of processing in the burial album

of course no one got rich but playing the mysterious anonymous marketing card was trump especially if you are a past master looking to start over again...

...the ghost of 2 step and a fitting memorial to it's london heyday that is burial the album, could in my opinion only have been done by someone who lived pretty close to the epicentre of it and not a vicarious observer form afar

[IMG]http://img69.imageshack.us/img69/4753/9livespi1.jpg[/IMG]

― pollywog, Monday, 26 March 2007 21:23 (eighteen years ago)

blackdown has never said he wasn't EL-b so it is possible to not tell the whole truth yet still not lie...

...only sending tunes to hyperdub discounts nothing from the el b theory

early efforts being an extension of el-b's dark garage morphing into dubstep without journeying into halfstep territory is what burial sounds like and a more likely scenario...

http://img69.imageshack.us/img69/4753/9livespi1.jpg

― pollywog, Monday, 26 March 2007 21:28 (eighteen years ago)

...only sending tunes to hyperdub discounts nothing from the el b theory

It kind of would.

― jim, Monday, 26 March 2007 21:31 (eighteen years ago)

Basically if you believe Burial is El-B then everything in that Blackdown interview above is a lie and that seems pretty elaborate and pointless.

― Alex in SF, Monday, 26 March 2007 21:35 (eighteen years ago)

...how so ???

just reading that blackdown interview again. It strikes me that the perfect way to hide the truth is by putting it right up so close to your face that you can only see little bits of it...

― pollywog, Monday, 26 March 2007 21:39 (eighteen years ago)

elaborate and pointless...yeah thats the burial album summed up for me right there

...it's the music game bub so it's supposed to be

hyperstition and not beyond K9 to concoct such a plan...

― pollywog, Monday, 26 March 2007 21:46 (eighteen years ago)

It's such typical dubstep myopia to assume that the only person who knows how to make 2-step rhythms is El-B!

I mean, I love the guy, but come on, there were about a hundred producers making rhythms similar to and as good if not better than Burial's beats only 5-6 years ago. Even if we assume that Burial is an old 2-step producer he could be any one of them, it's not like artists in this area of music don't know how to reinvent themselves from fun to serious and back again.

― Tim F, Tuesday, 27 March 2007 00:20 (eighteen years ago)

funnily enough I was never really into el-b either...

... I was more of a zed bias kind of guy

yeah and that myopia is a bit of a problem...

― pollywog, Tuesday, 27 March 2007 02:30 (eighteen years ago)

two years pass...

So what are all these funky tracks by Kode9 that aren't Den of Drumz that exist yet I haven't heard since I can't find them on Juno.

― mehlt, Tuesday, 7 April 2009 00:17 (sixteen years ago)

uk funky house, I mean, not just stuff that exhibits funk.

― mehlt, Tuesday, 7 April 2009 01:09 (sixteen years ago)

It's some special secret stuff that they recorded to bad-mouth you because they think you're a cock.

― Straight from the Top of My Dom (Noodle Vague), Tuesday, 7 April 2009 01:58 (sixteen years ago)

"Black Sun"/"2 Far Gone"? It should be on Juno.

― Alex in SF, Tuesday, 7 April 2009 02:11 (sixteen years ago)

xpost: huh?

I forgot about 2-bad, also (but that's not up on Juno, in my defense)

― mehlt, Tuesday, 7 April 2009 02:20 (sixteen years ago)

"2 Bad", done with LB, is also kind of UK funky.

"2 Bad" is very good (though the dubstep a-side "Bad" is better) but I wouldn't bother with "Black Sun"/"2 Far Gone". As per Kode9's original "death garage" tracks from way back when, joyless dirgey funky-dubstep fusionism is a concept that only ever needed to be written down on paper rather than actually executed.

xpost

― Tim F, Tuesday, 7 April 2009 02:21 (sixteen years ago)

Discogs link for "Black Sun"/"2 Far Gone":

http://www.discogs.com/Kode-9-Black-Sun-2-Far-Gone/release/1680372

― Tim F, Tuesday, 7 April 2009 02:21 (sixteen years ago)

its weird - the youtube rip of black sounded so immense compared to the one thats released, prob cos the rip was off a big sound system, but even so. those wonky pitch bent synths dont seem to quite work imo.

― Yellow Carded (titchyschneiderMk2), Tuesday, 7 April 2009 07:00 (sixteen years ago)

balls- black sun/2 far gone are the best things kodes ever done and probably in the top 5 things ive heard this year . they strike me as having very little to do with current funky though. If anything they strike me as sitting between a more meditative starkey and drexciyen garage

― straightola, Tuesday, 7 April 2009 09:35 (sixteen years ago)

which are both things which dont exist so dont listen to the nonsense that comes out of me first thing

― straightola, Tuesday, 7 April 2009 09:58 (sixteen years ago)

i think marcus nastys been playing some funky from dubstep producers but not those ones. theyre more like wonky.

― Yellow Carded (titchyschneiderMk2), Tuesday, 7 April 2009 09:58 (sixteen years ago)

dunno which dubstep guys or which tunes tho - i know its skream, ramadanman and someone else.

― Yellow Carded (titchyschneiderMk2), Tuesday, 7 April 2009 09:58 (sixteen years ago)

Isn't all of Kode9's music basically joyless and dirge-y? Not sure what exactly makes the new single any different. "Black Sun" is good stuff (better than either of the LD collabs if you ask me.) The B-side is less compelling.

― Alex in SF, Tuesday, 7 April 2009 17:51 (sixteen years ago)

the bside has silly vocals.

― Yellow Carded (titchyschneiderMk2), Tuesday, 7 April 2009 17:54 (sixteen years ago)

Yeah Adonis wants his schtick back.

― Alex in SF, Tuesday, 7 April 2009 17:58 (sixteen years ago)

yeah, kode 9s took his phuture/future obsession a few steps back with that one lol.

― Yellow Carded (titchyschneiderMk2), Tuesday, 7 April 2009 19:10 (sixteen years ago)

Really good Kode9 stuff:

- the more hip hop/grime-ish tracks on Memories of the Future
- "Magnetic City"
- the "Den of Drumz" remix
- the "Reminiscin" remix

I think what unites all of this stuff is that it's dark/noirish but holds itself back from becoming a joyless dirge. Moreover, at his best he switches up his ideas/sounds constantly, whereas at his doom & gloom worst he's pounding the same idea into the ground over however many minutes.

― Tim F, Tuesday, 7 April 2009 22:55 (sixteen years ago)

I like all that stuff too (I don't remember his stuff on the Grime 2 CD well which I guess is the dirge-y garage thing, but I liked the earlier Spaceape singles too which mostly appear on Memories IIRC.) I guess I just don't see "Black Sun" as that much of a slog at what 5 minutes long. That said I'd rather not see a whole album like it.

― Alex in SF, Tuesday, 7 April 2009 23:03 (sixteen years ago)

The original dirgey garage stuff was an EP released way back in like 2000/2001, it was a kind of pre-dubstep (and pre-Hyperdub-the-label) theoretical exercise. It sounded a bit like techstep with 2-step rhythms. May or may not have been called "death garage".

― Tim F, Wednesday, 8 April 2009 01:01 (sixteen years ago)

Discogs shows nothing? Under a different name?

― Alex in SF, Wednesday, 8 April 2009 02:37 (sixteen years ago)

Or is it this? All Kode9 pseuds?

― Alex in SF, Wednesday, 8 April 2009 02:39 (sixteen years ago)

Great track names on that btw. Pity if it isn't good.

― Alex in SF, Wednesday, 8 April 2009 02:44 (sixteen years ago)

Yeah that's it.

The great names are totally part and parcel of its limited real-life appeal. It's more like a record that you'd hypothesize over beers at the pub, rather than something you'd actually go ahead and record/release.

― Tim F, Wednesday, 8 April 2009 02:50 (sixteen years ago)

It's funny that Kode9 was the pseudonym he chose. Bobby Diablo is pretty cool.

― Alex in SF, Wednesday, 8 April 2009 02:56 (sixteen years ago)

Mostly I'm more interested in dancing than staring at speakers, be they in my bedroom or in a club.

― Tim F, Wednesday, 8 April 2009 04:10 (sixteen years ago)

Oops wrong thread!

― Tim F, Wednesday, 8 April 2009 04:10 (sixteen years ago)

"it was a kind of theoretical exercise"

most of his stuff is like that though. sometimes its a blinding theory, sometimes it isnt ;) hes a great deejay though - hard to fault his selection.

― Yellow Carded (titchyschneiderMk2), Wednesday, 8 April 2009 09:21 (sixteen years ago)

three months pass...

really really loved "Black Sun"/"2 Far Gone"

― Shin Oliva Suzuki, Thursday, 30 July 2009 02:35 (sixteen years ago)

eight months pass...

this is a strange review: http://www.dustedmagazine.com/reviews/5633

― emotional radiohead whatever (Jordan), Tuesday, 6 April 2010 17:42 (fifteen years ago)

one year passes...

dub muthafuckin' step

― cloud computing, robotics, 3G wireless connectivity, Skype, (history mayne), Tuesday, 16 August 2011 12:46 (fourteen years ago)

Kode9 & Spaceape have a new album out, right? Any good?

― Inevitable stupid samba mix (chap), Tuesday, 16 August 2011 17:59 (fourteen years ago)

burial lovers should check out the Desolate (Sven Weisemann) album "The Invisible Insurrection". I like it more than either burial record, i think.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XHhchdqaW2M

― jed_, Tuesday, 16 August 2011 18:40 (fourteen years ago)

a pale imitation imo

― Number None, Tuesday, 16 August 2011 18:43 (fourteen years ago)

not imo

― jed_, Tuesday, 16 August 2011 18:45 (fourteen years ago)

nah i suppose it's different really. it's more ambient/classical than the burial records.

― jed_, Tuesday, 16 August 2011 18:47 (fourteen years ago)

I listened to to it quite a bit when it came out and yeah, you can definitely detect the influence of Burial and Max Richter but i doesn't have the emotional heft of either. imo.

― Number None, Tuesday, 16 August 2011 18:58 (fourteen years ago)

maybe i think it's better than it is because i like Weisemann.

― jed_, Tuesday, 16 August 2011 20:41 (fourteen years ago)

I want to hear it

― A41 (admrl), Tuesday, 16 August 2011 20:44 (fourteen years ago)

one year passes...

i like this a lot

http://www.residentadvisor.net/images/events/flyer/2013/5/uk-0510-474233-front.gif

― the late great, Friday, 31 May 2013 17:03 (twelve years ago)

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