T/S: Coleman Hawkins vs. Lester Young

come on now

Right now I say Young. Could change, though.

The Bean clicked for me right away, still waiting for Lester to jump in.

You know, my only Hawk record (as a leader, at least) is from the Bossa fad, so it's all light and airy. Um, -ish. It is still Hawk.

i don't listen to either of them much. they could both play their asses off. and were both, obviously, way influential. i like the prez stuff i have. i listen to their heirs a lot more. getz, zoot sims, etc.

i don't even listen to charlie parker that much, come to think of it. another heir. okay, i'll say lester young. i'm more of a fan of ben webster than coleman hawkins anyway. there were lots of people who eclipsed hawk. lester is always a pleasure to listen to.

I'm more into ben webster too, w/ellington in 1940s & solo in the 50s

like all the players mentioned above--ben webster and sid catlett doing "linger awhile" from '44 is one of the greatest jazz recordings I know. I mean one could do a thread about how underrated and unknown sid catlett is.

but coleman hawkins is the quintessential jazz musician. he never stopped learning and searching, and he was above all a great musical theorist. he invented jazz saxophone more or less. to my mind, he's the essence of what the whole project of playing jazz is--and sure it has do with "tone" and all that, but it also has to do with a rigorous attitude toward the materials, and a forward-looking attitude. lester young is great and he's probably easier to listen to in many ways, less roccoco, and probably he had a cannier sense of time and space than hawkins. he is probably the one titan of jazz whose contributions aren't well known today, because everyone thinks that coltrane and parker made him irrelevant, or that lester young did. they didn't.

Hawk's unaccompanied "Picasso" from the late 40s is one of my fave jazz recordings of all time--one of those songs that I want an hour long loop of. He's definitely one of the greats, I agree--from working with Fletcher Henderson to Monk and Coltrane. That's the mark of a master. (No slur on Lester, I'm actually less familiar with his stuff).

one could do a thread about how underrated and unknown sid catlett is.

To choose a not so random example, I never heard of the guy until just now.

Heh heh, another vote for Ben Webster here! Um, I've gotta say Coleman Hawkins. Lester Young's subtlety is something I've yet to learn to fully appreciate. I have to admit I've heard (and own) more Hawk. (And further admit that I'm too much the ignorant hard-rocker to speak with any kinda authority on these two geniuses when I'd really rather listen to bar-walkers like Illinois Jacquet or, say, Red Prysock. Or Ben Webster.)

I agree with a lot of what's been said above, especially whisperineddhurt. Hawk lived for pushing the envelope, so he truely gets credit for that -- and his sound was like a big fat cabernet. Prez found a construct to work within, and pretty much stayed there. Lester certainly had hella-phrasing and, of course his melody snuggled in tightly with gals like Billie, but at the end of the day, Prez devines smooooooth.

Hawk was certainly a trail blazer who reveled in pushing through the briars and the underbrush. Prez, on the other hand, had a tentsite and a campfire and he was decked-out with many of the comforts from home.

But if Lester Young is to Ben Webster as Coleman Hawkins is to *blank* -- Then *blank* equals Clifford Brown.

So i pick Lester Young and Clifford Brown.

Prez, but both are great.