Are the last 45 seconds of "Stand!" by Sly & The Family Stone the greatest 45 seconds of music ever recorded?

Message Bookmarked

Bookmark Removed

Sometimes I think so.

― Scik Mouthy, Monday, 16 April 2007 20:44 (eighteen years ago)

Sly hated it. I don't think any of the Family Stone is on it besides Errico.

make of that what you will.

― Shakey Mo Collier, Monday, 16 April 2007 20:53 (eighteen years ago)

or at least that's what I remember from the "Off the Record" accounts given.

― Shakey Mo Collier, Monday, 16 April 2007 20:54 (eighteen years ago)

Yeah? I never knew that. How come that happened, and how come he hated it?

― Scik Mouthy, Monday, 16 April 2007 20:54 (eighteen years ago)

Oooh, just looking in the booklet for the remaster and it confirms that the coda was done later, with sessions musicians.

― Scik Mouthy, Monday, 16 April 2007 20:56 (eighteen years ago)

Doesn't say he hated it though... If Sly hates it, that makes me sad.

― Scik Mouthy, Monday, 16 April 2007 20:56 (eighteen years ago)

I think the one who really complains about it in the book is Jerry Martini, that it was tacked on to the end of the song after the rest of the session had been completed as a kind of "sellout" move, an excessively simple part that was a musical copout. Apparently Sly was feeling record company pressure to replicate "Dance to the Music"'s success (which also led to what Jerry calls the "Dance to the Medley, Dance to the Shmedley" album, which he also says the band hated).

But obviously its a great piece of music.

― Shakey Mo Collier, Monday, 16 April 2007 20:59 (eighteen years ago)

I always loved this part!

― Dominique, Monday, 16 April 2007 20:59 (eighteen years ago)

But it means nothing without the first two minutes! The juxtaposition is integral!

― Whiney G. Weingarten, Monday, 16 April 2007 21:00 (eighteen years ago)

That's totally true, Whiney, and I would never play it on its own.

― Scik Mouthy, Monday, 16 April 2007 21:03 (eighteen years ago)

even after three or four weeks of playing all these albums non-stop, i am not yet worn out

― strongohulkington, Monday, 16 April 2007 21:13 (eighteen years ago)

Which is your favourite, Jess? I didn't bother buying Small Talk, either - should I bother? I have the essential comp which has Loose Booty on it...

― Scik Mouthy, Monday, 16 April 2007 21:15 (eighteen years ago)

?!? Small Talk is awesome!

― Shakey Mo Collier, Monday, 16 April 2007 21:16 (eighteen years ago)

its Sly's Henry Threadgill album

― Shakey Mo Collier, Monday, 16 April 2007 21:17 (eighteen years ago)

wtf does that mean?! I am British...

― Scik Mouthy, Monday, 16 April 2007 21:18 (eighteen years ago)

favorite: riot, easily, forever and ever.

most surprised by how much i'm enjoying "whole new thing" and "life" which i never played much before i got the box set.

― strongohulkington, Monday, 16 April 2007 21:19 (eighteen years ago)

the album covers are like the progression of 60s/70s fashions in miniature

― strongohulkington, Monday, 16 April 2007 21:19 (eighteen years ago)

stations of the cross-style

― strongohulkington, Monday, 16 April 2007 21:19 (eighteen years ago)

Small Talk heavily features some rather odd violin arrangements.

Henry Threadgill is this guy: http://www.allmusic.com/cg/amg.dll?p=amg&sql=11:dzfoxqlgldde~T1

― Shakey Mo Collier, Monday, 16 April 2007 21:21 (eighteen years ago)

I always thought Whole New Thing got a bum deal. "Trip To Your Heart"! "Underdog"! "What Would I Do?"! Awesome.

― Scik Mouthy, Monday, 16 April 2007 21:23 (eighteen years ago)

it was out of print for a long time, and had no hits. Other musos at the time (Miles Davis, etc.) loved it though, understandably.

― Shakey Mo Collier, Monday, 16 April 2007 21:25 (eighteen years ago)

I think the drumroll in "Underdog" might be the most exciting drumroll ever.

― Scik Mouthy, Monday, 16 April 2007 21:25 (eighteen years ago)

Do you reckon they'll rerelease the 69 Greatest Hits set? I love that. I have all the songs from it remastered on the Essential comp, but... y'know. It was the first Sly I ever bought and I'm sentimental for that running order.

― Scik Mouthy, Monday, 16 April 2007 21:27 (eighteen years ago)

I'm just gonna post this random baby gif here cos it makes me laugh and I started this thread so it's allowed.

http://i131.photobucket.com/albums/p289/xmyloveislikepoisonx/th_whatafunnybaby.gif

― Scik Mouthy, Monday, 16 April 2007 21:30 (eighteen years ago)

I'm still digesting Fresh, Stand and Riot. Getting the boxed set was a good way to kill my interest in all other music for a while, I am thinking.

― Alex in SF, Monday, 16 April 2007 21:39 (eighteen years ago)

"Underdog" is fantastic, yes--one of the few things from the first three albums that could be included on the '70 Greatest Hits without dragging it some. I am really annoyed they didn't add "Hot Fun in the Summertime," "Thank You Falettinme Be Mice Elf Agin," or "Everybody Is a Star" as bonus cuts on Stand!, though; they were singles-only and deserve inclusion, plus they extend that album's sound perfectly. No way you could include them on Riot. Speaking of which, I rather like the untitled instrumentals that are included on bonus cuts there.

As to Sick's question: it's entirely possible, yes.

― Matos W.K., Tuesday, 17 April 2007 00:26 (eighteen years ago)

The added Riot instrumentals: seconded. I've had the remaster for a couple of months, but hearing it played loud in Easy Street two weekends ago was almost even better.

― If Timi Yuro would be still alive, most other singers could shut up, Tuesday, 17 April 2007 00:37 (eighteen years ago)

Yes they are re-releasing the '69 Greatest Hits set.

― jaybabcock, Tuesday, 17 April 2007 00:43 (eighteen years ago)

by the way, for those of you who have this stuff, my envy has turned to cold hard jealous hatery

― Dimension 5ive, Tuesday, 17 April 2007 01:25 (eighteen years ago)

Yes they are re-releasing the '69 Greatest Hits set.

This makes me happy.

― Scik Mouthy, Tuesday, 17 April 2007 08:06 (eighteen years ago)

For me it would be the last 30 seconds of "The American" by Simple Minds. Per-bloody-fect.

― Marcello Carlin, Tuesday, 17 April 2007 08:35 (eighteen years ago)

I love the "Stand!" outro to bits, but it's always sounded to me like it was a leftover section of a wholly separate song. Other than the tempo, it doesn't have much of anything to do with the rest of the track.

― The Deacon, Tuesday, 17 April 2007 16:33 (eighteen years ago)

People, people, can we cover our bibliographical tracks a bit more assiduously? What are the "Off The Record" accounts Shakey Mo is referring to? Because "Off The Record" is capitalized, it seems to refer to a specific text. Which is...?

Also, what book is Shakey talking about with the Jerry Martini gripe?

Why am I stressing? Because this stretch of music may not be the greatest 45 seconds ever recorded. But it's certainly the funkiest (and probably the greatest nevertheless). Period. Even funkier than James Brown.

(Pause for possible scandal.)

But I think what I really mean here is that these 45 seconds have the funkiest effect ever recorded. No doubt Steven Feld or someone could "scientifically" prove that "Sex Machine" is funkier than "Stand"'s coda, that it leans down harder on the three (or something). But the juxtaposition of a moderately (maybe even barely) funkified 2:15 pop song with the gargantuan good footedness of the coda augments the funk of the latter, maybe even distorts it to the point where some everyday people feel it's the funkiest moment ever recorded. (And listen to the bass during the 2:15 pop song portion - chugs along rather CCR-like until the chorus where it anticipates the popping scale runs of disco, never a genre to give up the funk with any regularity).

Of course, one could chalk this reaction up to a white disdain for (failure to valorize?) repetition which is so endemic to James Brown's music. Well, I'm a repetition/James Brown fan. But I do wonder whether or not funk comes through stronger with juxtaposition than repetition.

And I should confess that my favorite songs/singles consist of the many-songs/sounds-in-one variety. So maybe this pomo/ADD aesthetic simply runs counter to funkist repetition. (Or more precisely, it aims to enlist funkist repetition as a truck bed for many-songs/sounds-in-one, e.g. "M'lady" which I've always thought was just about the best thing on Greatest Hits.)

Finally, I know no one here is necessarily arguing that the "Stand" coda is some sort of sellout. But whoever does argue this, come on! It's not as if Pan Sonic is sliding into Britney Spears here. How unconventional is the 2:15 pop portion in the first place?

― Kevin John Bozelka, Wednesday, 18 April 2007 05:36 (eighteen years ago)

Look here people!

― Scik Mouthy, Wednesday, 18 April 2007 09:33 (eighteen years ago)

Do either the book or the liner notes confirm that it was Sly himself, rather than Larry Graham, who played bass on Riot, as I've been led to believe? (Says so in the Small TAlk liner notes, I think.)
The bassline on "Thank You For Talkin To Me Africa" sounds nothing like "Thank You Falettinme...".

― Myonga Vön Bontee, Wednesday, 18 April 2007 09:46 (eighteen years ago)

OF THE NEW ISSUES I ONLY HAVE RIOT FRESH AND SMALL TALK :(

― chaki, Wednesday, 18 April 2007 09:48 (eighteen years ago)

I feel that I am missing out on this.

― blueski, Wednesday, 18 April 2007 09:53 (eighteen years ago)

I have There's A Riot.. and Greatest Hits- both on LP.

Which of these beguiling CD reissues should I grab now? I'm thinking Fresh, for starters.

― Matthew H, Wednesday, 18 April 2007 11:08 (eighteen years ago)

I'm totally creeped out. Listening to last night's The Best Show on WFMU and "Stand" came on just before I saw this thread.

― scarymuppet, Wednesday, 18 April 2007 14:41 (eighteen years ago)

I am referring to the Dave Marsh-edited "Off the Record: Sly and the Family Stone" book, which is probably the best rock bio I have ever read. It is composed entirely of first-person quotes from pretty much everybody involved with Sly (except of course for Sly himself). It is out of print. I don't think there are any other comprehensive overviews of Sly's career out there.

― Shakey Mo Collier, Wednesday, 18 April 2007 16:48 (eighteen years ago)

This Book?

― C. Grisso/McCain, Wednesday, 18 April 2007 16:51 (eighteen years ago)

(also re: question of who plays bass on Riot, its probably a combination of Larry and Sly. Larry left during the recording of Fresh, but is on two songs there - there's a thread somewhere around here with a recent interview with Larry where he says which ones)

and yes THAT book

x-post

― Shakey Mo Collier, Wednesday, 18 April 2007 16:53 (eighteen years ago)

Ok thanx Shakey.

― Kevin John Bozelka, Wednesday, 18 April 2007 17:21 (eighteen years ago)

Yeah, thanx indeed!

And, as for "Stand": I submit "Runnin' Away", which does the same unfunky-to-funky thang, except it does it THROUGHOUT - every time the vocals stop and the horns takes over. (Pretty near the only sprightly moments on teh whole album...)

― Myonga Vön Bontee, Wednesday, 18 April 2007 17:46 (eighteen years ago)

what about the last minute of Marvin Gaye's 'What's Going On'

― CaptainLorax, Wednesday, 18 April 2007 19:36 (eighteen years ago)

And after "Runnin' Away" check out the bass and drums on "If You Want Me To Stay." They behave at the beginning. But around 0:55, they start wandering away from momma. And every couple of measures, you can hear little changes (cymbal accents here, bass more pointillist there) that suggest the several-songs-in-one strategy has been subtly integrated into the band's recording philosophy. Not exactly unfunky-to funky but shifty, frisky even.

A drummer friend had to alert me to this.

― Kevin John Bozelka, Wednesday, 18 April 2007 19:58 (eighteen years ago)

Very nice piece in which Larry Graham listens to the remasters: http://citypages.com/databank/28/1376/article15355.asp

― Matos W.K., Wednesday, 18 April 2007 22:43 (eighteen years ago)

the dog collecting stuff is funny.

― Shakey Mo Collier, Wednesday, 18 April 2007 22:45 (eighteen years ago)

(no mention of Sly's pitbull, which tried to eat his baby)

― Shakey Mo Collier, Wednesday, 18 April 2007 22:45 (eighteen years ago)

Bumpity.

― Scik Mouthy, Friday, 20 April 2007 15:42 (eighteen years ago)

four months pass...

Just picked up the remastered Greatest Hits comp digipak, excellent!

― Scik Mouthy, Monday, 20 August 2007 12:55 (seventeen years ago)

Ugh, I HATE digipaks!

Aside from the improved sound, is there any other reason someone should replace the original?

― Myonga Vön Bontee, Monday, 20 August 2007 14:41 (seventeen years ago)

Not really, I guess; but the sound on this is MUCH better than the original CD release.

― Scik Mouthy, Monday, 20 August 2007 15:01 (seventeen years ago)

great vanity fair article about sly up right now

― deej, Monday, 20 August 2007 15:14 (seventeen years ago)

http://www.vanityfair.com/images/fame/2007/08/faar01_sly0708.jpg
http://www.vanityfair.com/fame/features/2007/08/sly200708

― deej, Monday, 20 August 2007 15:15 (seventeen years ago)

one year passes...

The answer to this question is yes, at least right now.

― The Reverend, Thursday, 21 August 2008 00:07 (sixteen years ago)

woah, 1 yr to the date

― The Reverend, Thursday, 21 August 2008 00:07 (sixteen years ago)

"Stand" sounds like it should be the national anthem or some shit

― The Reverend, Thursday, 21 August 2008 00:18 (sixteen years ago)

someone could have said "don't call me whiney, (mouthy)", like a year ago. it would have been good. i wasn't here then.

― schlump, Thursday, 21 August 2008 12:07 (sixteen years ago)

would buy a sly & the family stone live album circa the 60s/early 70s

― stevie, Thursday, 21 August 2008 13:27 (sixteen years ago)

also crossword puzzle of small talk is v essential

― stevie, Thursday, 21 August 2008 13:28 (sixteen years ago)

off

― stevie, Thursday, 21 August 2008 13:28 (sixteen years ago)

Isn't that track on "High On You"?

― Tom D., Thursday, 21 August 2008 13:29 (sixteen years ago)

would buy a sly & the family stone live album circa the 60s/early 70s

Yeah, I can't believe that NOTHING has ever been released after all these years. Anyone ever heard the "Wolfgang's Vault" Fillmore stuff?

― Myonga Vön Bontee, Thursday, 21 August 2008 14:45 (sixteen years ago)

uh Woodstock yo

― Shakey Mo Collier, Thursday, 21 August 2008 15:17 (sixteen years ago)

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UBlr0C8t7X0

― Shakey Mo Collier, Thursday, 21 August 2008 15:19 (sixteen years ago)

Anyone ever heard the "Wolfgang's Vault" Fillmore stuff?

what, you have found something in there I'd have more than a passing interest in?

i.e. no, any good?

― Mark G, Thursday, 21 August 2008 15:23 (sixteen years ago)

the stevie wonder show on wolfgang's vault is ace, the led zep shows also. i have boots from back in the day which are pretty sterling too - just wondering why no official release? but sly's back catalogue was in a woeful mess before these recent reissues, so i guess no real surprise.

there are a ton-load of soul stars who i wish would get lush reissues packages like the double disk marvin gaye sets...

― stevie, Thursday, 21 August 2008 16:05 (sixteen years ago)

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3Ig-6f0g55c

― Jimmy The Mod Awaits The Return Of His Beloved, Thursday, 21 August 2008 16:09 (sixteen years ago)

1.51 to 2.38 of Daft Punk's 'Around the World' trumps the last 45 seconds of 'Stand!'. But I did use iTunes to crop 'Stand!' to the last 55.663 seconds only, so it must be alright

― Ismael Klata, Thursday, 21 August 2008 21:51 (sixteen years ago)

uh Woodstock yo

Well, yeah - I meant nothing aside from the odd track on a pop-festival compilation.

― Myonga Vön Bontee, Thursday, 21 August 2008 22:20 (sixteen years ago)

three weeks pass...

I don't know if those 45 seconds are the greatest ever recorded, but they're certainly my favorite, and that's after listening to them for almost two decades...

Sly recorded it all himself, or with studio musicians. Accounts vary. That said, the band could pull it off live -- you can see it on one of their TV appearances, just unbelievable. (Although maybe that's a lip sync? Haven't seen it for a while...)

"You Can Make It if you Try" has a similarly ridiculous ensemble throb/groove going on...

― jaybabcock, Friday, 12 September 2008 18:02 (sixteen years ago)

Aw man what do I know. The Tv appearance I'm remembering turns out to be from '74! Larry was gone by then, etc etc. But check this out.. When Sly steps out from behind the organ it IS the greatest thing ever...

― jaybabcock, Friday, 12 September 2008 18:11 (sixteen years ago)

No.

― Vision, Friday, 12 September 2008 18:16 (sixteen years ago)

oh that was great

― peace, love, and ban deeznuts (The Reverend), Friday, 12 September 2008 18:45 (sixteen years ago)

four years pass...

yes

― we run zings, zings don't run we (The Reverend), Friday, 16 August 2013 06:33 (eleven years ago)

Yes

― how's life, Friday, 16 August 2013 11:28 (eleven years ago)

You must be logged in to post. Please either login here, or if you are not registered, you may register here.