grunge revival: real or imagined?

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silversun pickups: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XaIT82a7VjY
the ponys: http://www.theponys.com/
boredoms reissues:
iha-less smashing pumpkins reunion: http://www.spin.com/features/news/2007/04/070423_spumpkins/
dinosaur jr. reunion: http://www.dinosaurjr.com/
new early seattle comp: http://www.birthofgrunge.com/
pearl jam headlines lollapalooza '07: http://www.lollapalooza.com/default.asp?fd=1

― chris, Thursday, 26 April 2007 15:43 (eighteen years ago)

the ponys don't sound like grunge

i'm not sure smashing pumpkins were really considered "grunge"

boredoms have never been remotely "grunge"

i've never heard silversun pickups.

― M@tt He1ges0n, Thursday, 26 April 2007 15:52 (eighteen years ago)

imagined, since only about half of those are even tangentially "grunge"

― pretzel walrus, Thursday, 26 April 2007 15:53 (eighteen years ago)

or right, what matt said

― pretzel walrus, Thursday, 26 April 2007 15:53 (eighteen years ago)

the ponys sound a lot like grunge now.
the smashing pumkins were considered grunge.
boredoms are unclassifiable yeah but became well-known because they were championed by nirvana.
maybe you should click the link for silversun pickups.

― chris, Thursday, 26 April 2007 15:55 (eighteen years ago)

more specifically, the new ponys is a lot like grunge-era sonic youth.

― chris, Thursday, 26 April 2007 15:56 (eighteen years ago)

are you, by any chance, a member of silversun pickups?

the ponys are pony.

― CharlieNo4, Thursday, 26 April 2007 15:57 (eighteen years ago)

grunge-era sonic youth != grunge

― pretzel walrus, Thursday, 26 April 2007 15:58 (eighteen years ago)

i beg to differ, but if you're going to define grunge as strictly Tad or something then I guess you're right

― chris, Thursday, 26 April 2007 16:00 (eighteen years ago)

by right i mean right about your wrongness, not right about reality

― chris, Thursday, 26 April 2007 16:00 (eighteen years ago)

no i'm sorta defining grunge as sludgy metal songs played punk rock stylee

― pretzel walrus, Thursday, 26 April 2007 16:01 (eighteen years ago)

aka, you know, what it is/was

― pretzel walrus, Thursday, 26 April 2007 16:02 (eighteen years ago)

you don't even have to bend over backwards so much as to include the Pumpkins, SY, and Dinosaur Jr. as "grunge" to make a case for this, considering that most of the bands you hear on active radio formats these days are warmed over Nth generation Pearl Jam/Alice In Chains ripoffs. grunge never left!

― Alex in Baltimore, Thursday, 26 April 2007 16:03 (eighteen years ago)

i mean, honestly, who's more nu-grunge, Silversun Pickups or HINDER?

― Alex in Baltimore, Thursday, 26 April 2007 16:04 (eighteen years ago)

i really don't see how referring to pumpkins, sy and esp. dinosaur jr. as grunge is bending over backwards. at the time anyway, to deny they were generally considered to be grunge bands in the early/mid-90's is totally revisionist history.

― chris, Thursday, 26 April 2007 16:06 (eighteen years ago)

i'd argue that grunge included a lot of stuff that wasn't "sludgy metal songs played punk rock stylee" like for instance breeders, sugar, sebadoh, lemonheads, buffalo tom, pavement, etc. even mudhoney - the quintessential grunge band at one point - was more than that.

the identification of it as strictly for knuckledraggers came later

― chris, Thursday, 26 April 2007 16:11 (eighteen years ago)

grunge-era ~~sonic youth~~ dinosaur jr != grunge

^ also true

― stephen, Thursday, 26 April 2007 16:12 (eighteen years ago)

even if I give you a pass on who you consider grunge (which would seem to be anybody who was on alt-rock radio in that 5 year period), I'm still gonna have to go with "imagined," just because i'm wary any time someone attaches revival/trend status to the fact that bands from a certain bygone era are still around or appreciated in any capacity (even if, for the most part, that capacity is far far less than what it was at their commercial peak during that era).

― Alex in Baltimore, Thursday, 26 April 2007 16:13 (eighteen years ago)

any alternative or underground music released between 1991 and 1995 is grunge. don't you people know that the world revolved around grunge. nothing existed without grunge. grunge was the alpha and the omega, the blessed ground from which all flowers grew. also, kurt cobain listened to the raincoats, so raincoats = grunge. get with it.

― Edward III, Thursday, 26 April 2007 16:14 (eighteen years ago)

boredoms are unclassifiable yeah but became well-known because they were championed by nirvana.

so that would make devo grunge LOL

― braveclub, Thursday, 26 April 2007 16:15 (eighteen years ago)

I mean, if the next Pumpkins or Dinosaur or Pearl Jam albums sell anywhere near what they sold in the early 90's, then we'll talk "revival" and not "hey look, they haven't all died or retired from music." (xpost)

― Alex in Baltimore, Thursday, 26 April 2007 16:15 (eighteen years ago)

breeders, sugar, sebadoh, lemonheads, buffalo tom, pavement, etc.

I believe this may be the elusive musical genre known as "lol indie rock".

― Colonel Poo, Thursday, 26 April 2007 16:16 (eighteen years ago)

fwiw, wikipedia agrees with me that "grunge" = Seattle bands and just a handful of others (L7, Stone Temple Pilots, etc.):

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Grunge

― Alex in Baltimore, Thursday, 26 April 2007 16:18 (eighteen years ago)

to deny they were generally considered to be grunge bands in the early/mid-90's is totally revisionist history.

the, uh, "grunge revolution" hit me hard back in '92 and early '93, and I honestly don't remember considering the Pumpkins grunge. The heads who turned me on to Gish were basically neo-hippie, jam band types who dabbled in the alternative nation. I mean, sure, they appeared on the Singles soundtrack, but so did the sisters from Heart.

As for the band's Siamese Dream days, well, they definitely were part of some thing often call the "alternative rock revolution," but not grunge, really. In fact, by the end of '93, I don't remember anyone really using the word grunge anymore.

― QuantumNoise, Thursday, 26 April 2007 16:20 (eighteen years ago)

yeah "alternative" was the catch-all buzzword for most of the decade, whereas "grunge" was the catch-all buzzword for a year, two tops.

― Alex in Baltimore, Thursday, 26 April 2007 16:21 (eighteen years ago)

maybe defining the word "grunge" as some pervasive genre tag that tons of kids used back in the day is actually revisionist history.

i mean, outside of mainstream media and parents trying to be hip, did kids even take the word grunge all that seriously? we knew it was a sham; cobain and vedder told us it was -- which kinda sounds silly, but it's kinda true, too.

― QuantumNoise, Thursday, 26 April 2007 16:27 (eighteen years ago)

I remember babbling about this somewhere before, turns out it was here:
http://www.ilxor.com/ILX/ThreadSelectedControllerServlet?boardid=41&threadid=47847

Prior to the Seattle explosion in '88, the "grunge" term was already in use, and it referred to any band that aped the slower rhythms and dirty guitar sounds of classic rock - bands like Kilslug, Raging Slab, Halo Of Flies, The Bastards, and Dinosaur. Even Butthole Surfers and Scratch Acid were described as "grungey". This was a pre-existing strain in the underground. Sub Pop just positioned it as a defining style, and like the true marketing geniuses they were, branded Seattle as grunge central.

I'd agree with the perception that there were grunge bands who looked towards Stooges, Sabbath, etc as inspiration (Mudhoney), and those who aspired towards more of a Led Zep / BTO orientation (Mother Love Bone, and by extension Pearl Jam). Once it got into the mainstream all these subtle subcultural differentiations melted and anybody wearing plaid and playing a guitar was grunge.

apparently grunge now includes the boredoms and sonic youth. I learn something new every day!

― Edward III, Thursday, 26 April 2007 16:45 (eighteen years ago)

as a person that owned several flannel shirts in the 1990s, i think i get to decide what grunge is and isn't.

this thread is wrong.

― M@tt He1ges0n, Thursday, 26 April 2007 16:48 (eighteen years ago)

and nirvana championed all sorts of stuff! are the vaselines grunge? are the raincoats grunge?

sonic youth were already a pretty established thing way before grunge even happened.

― M@tt He1ges0n, Thursday, 26 April 2007 16:49 (eighteen years ago)

i bet i owned more flannel shirts than u

― strongohulkington, Thursday, 26 April 2007 16:53 (eighteen years ago)

sonned in a flannel beef!

― M@tt He1ges0n, Thursday, 26 April 2007 17:09 (eighteen years ago)

the fat kid's friend!

― strongohulkington, Thursday, 26 April 2007 17:11 (eighteen years ago)

The real question is why anyone would ever want a grunge revival in the first place.

― Curt1s Stephens, Thursday, 26 April 2007 17:19 (eighteen years ago)

[insert genre]: real or imagined?

could go far....

― fandango, Thursday, 26 April 2007 17:19 (eighteen years ago)

Nu Rave?
Fidget House?

― fandango, Thursday, 26 April 2007 17:20 (eighteen years ago)

Real! Don't forget My Chemical Romance.

― sonderangerbot, Thursday, 26 April 2007 17:21 (eighteen years ago)

wow, there's some serious grunge denial going on here, as there was at the time.

are you guys seriously arguing dinosaur jr. and sonic youth had nothing to do with the genre of music widely known as "grunge"? come on.

<I>i mean, outside of mainstream media and parents trying to be hip, did kids even take the word grunge all that seriously? </I>

judging from the hair-splitting defensive responses on this thread, it seems some former kids still take it all too seriously. jeezus.

― chris, Thursday, 26 April 2007 17:43 (eighteen years ago)

there's a difference between hysterical denial and everyone pretty much agreeing that you're wrong. yeah, of course SY and Dinosaur didn't have "nothing" to do with grunge, but you're crazy if you think it isn't almost universally agreed on that those bands are either not grunge or at least 'less grunge' than Pearl Jam/Nirvana/etc.

― Alex in Baltimore, Thursday, 26 April 2007 17:49 (eighteen years ago)

didn't have "nothing" to do with grunge

oh al, no.

― strongohulkington, Thursday, 26 April 2007 17:52 (eighteen years ago)

i take grunge mad seriously son. get yr mind correct. shit is real.

― M@tt He1ges0n, Thursday, 26 April 2007 17:53 (eighteen years ago)

what's wrong? the double negative? the scare quotes? I was just saying, duh, they both toured with/were friends with Nirvana, etc., so it's not like there's no relation at all.

― Alex in Baltimore, Thursday, 26 April 2007 17:53 (eighteen years ago)

(xpost)

― Alex in Baltimore, Thursday, 26 April 2007 17:54 (eighteen years ago)

fwiw, alex, the same wiki entry you refer to above says:

"Such Northeastern bands as Sonic Youth and Dinosaur Jr. are considered important influences on the grunge sound and both groups championed many Seattle grunge bands."

(as if wiki proves anything anyway)

― chris, Thursday, 26 April 2007 17:54 (eighteen years ago)

the double negative

― strongohulkington, Thursday, 26 April 2007 17:55 (eighteen years ago)

influences being the operative word [xpost]

― braveclub, Thursday, 26 April 2007 17:55 (eighteen years ago)

somewhere the member of the toadies who was a former english major is crying

― strongohulkington, Thursday, 26 April 2007 17:56 (eighteen years ago)

hairsplitting being the operative word

― chris, Thursday, 26 April 2007 17:56 (eighteen years ago)

are considered important influences on the grunge sound
are considered important influences on the grunge sound
are considered important influences on the grunge sound
are considered important influences on the grunge sound

xposts

― Curt1s Stephens, Thursday, 26 April 2007 17:56 (eighteen years ago)

does anyone else constantly flash back during conversations like this to the MTV News segment where they asked every band on Lollapalooza that year what "grunge" was and they all gave vague or sarcastic answers?

(xpost - i'm not denying influence/association! it would be pretty dumb of me to insist that Sonic Youth and Nirvana resided in completely seperate universes)

― Alex in Baltimore, Thursday, 26 April 2007 17:56 (eighteen years ago)

do not feed the flannel-clad troll everyone

― strongohulkington, Thursday, 26 April 2007 17:57 (eighteen years ago)

Skipping 170 messages at this point... Click here if you want to load them all.

i think college rock was before modern rock?

― M@tt He1ges0n, Thursday, 26 April 2007 22:12 (eighteen years ago)

what about pissed jeans and clockcleaner? what about comets on fire? i mean, if screaming trees and dinosaur jr get to be grunge... were the tar babies grunge?

― ian, Thursday, 26 April 2007 22:13 (eighteen years ago)

modern rock --> grunge --> alternative --> pop-punk (bit of an overlap here) --> ska --> alternative pop --> (electronica detour) --> rap-rock --> nu-metal --> emo

Big Bad Voodoo Daddy is gonna be pissed.

― C0L1N B..., Thursday, 26 April 2007 22:14 (eighteen years ago)

This thread is like a weird American rock parallel version of those dance music threads where Doglatin used to come on and call everything under the sun minimal house in that hope that he'd eventually hit the nail on the head.

― Matt DC, Thursday, 26 April 2007 22:17 (eighteen years ago)

i really need to work out some sort of actual diagram

― strongohulkington, Thursday, 26 April 2007 22:18 (eighteen years ago)

cuz, you know, i don't have enough work to do

― strongohulkington, Thursday, 26 April 2007 22:18 (eighteen years ago)

Jesus --> the dude from live

― QuantumNoise, Thursday, 26 April 2007 22:21 (eighteen years ago)

what about pissed jeans and clockcleaner?

TOO SLOW RESPONSE, GRUNGE REVIVAL HAS PASSED YOU BY

anyway I don't think the thread is totally off base as we've been talking elsewhere about all the Amrep type revival bands (Pissed Jeans Clockcleaner etc)

-- dmr, Thursday, April 26, 2007 2:06 PM (4 hours ago)

― dmr, Thursday, 26 April 2007 22:23 (eighteen years ago)

seven mary three-------->nickelback

― M@tt He1ges0n, Thursday, 26 April 2007 22:24 (eighteen years ago)

Walter Raleigh -----> "Meet Virginia"

― ghost rider, Thursday, 26 April 2007 22:29 (eighteen years ago)

FOMA

― strgn, Thursday, 26 April 2007 22:38 (eighteen years ago)

http://img248.imageshack.us/img248/9196/rockchartdb8.png

― strongohulkington, Thursday, 26 April 2007 22:41 (eighteen years ago)

hahahahahaha

― strgn, Thursday, 26 April 2007 22:41 (eighteen years ago)

i'm sure i forgot something

― strongohulkington, Thursday, 26 April 2007 22:43 (eighteen years ago)

haha awesome!

― M@tt He1ges0n, Thursday, 26 April 2007 22:44 (eighteen years ago)

THE 90S

― strongohulkington, Thursday, 26 April 2007 22:44 (eighteen years ago)

http://blogs.smh.com.au/mashup/images/applause.gif

― ghost rider, Thursday, 26 April 2007 22:46 (eighteen years ago)

roflz

― Shakey Mo Collier, Thursday, 26 April 2007 22:50 (eighteen years ago)

"Sabotage" video OTM

― sexyDancer, Thursday, 26 April 2007 22:51 (eighteen years ago)

http://i5.photobucket.com/albums/y153/struggin/rockchartdb8.png

― strgn, Thursday, 26 April 2007 22:51 (eighteen years ago)

The Nixons are one of the few bands hailing from Norman/Oklahoma City, but the foursome has nothing in common with the twisted psychedelia of the Flaming Lips or the transvestite punk of the Chainsaw Kittens. Its debut, Foma, is soulless, generic grunge. The album takes its title from author Kurt Vonnegut's phrase for meaningless lies that people live with to make themselves feel better-appropriate for a band that, given a different commercial environment, would probably sound like Poison. --Jim DeRogatis

― strgn, Thursday, 26 April 2007 22:52 (eighteen years ago)

pearl jam : nirvana :: "hippies" : "punks" ?

― strgn, Thursday, 26 April 2007 22:54 (eighteen years ago)

fisheye how i miss you

― strgn, Thursday, 26 April 2007 22:55 (eighteen years ago)

omg my chest hurts

― strongohulkington, Thursday, 26 April 2007 22:55 (eighteen years ago)

i hope to god there was a grunge band called 'fisheye'

― strgn, Thursday, 26 April 2007 22:57 (eighteen years ago)

http://www.adequacy.net/images/feature/39-1.jpg

― strgn, Thursday, 26 April 2007 22:58 (eighteen years ago)

next time i think ilm is a waste of time, i'll remember this thread

― M@tt He1ges0n, Thursday, 26 April 2007 23:22 (eighteen years ago)

i love that monsterland album - i even wrote some 'undiscovered treasure' piece on it in NME. i met greg vegas at SXSW a few years back and told him of my love for his old band. he look unsettled by my fervour.

― stevie, Thursday, 26 April 2007 23:25 (eighteen years ago)

I was in the Soundgarden fan club, and they sent us all a three-song cassette promoting this "new band from Seattle" Pearl Jam ("Alive"/"Wash"/"I've Got a Feeling"). They shared the same management, Susan Silver. I thought it was cool, thought they sounded like Bad Company.

― Stormy Davis, Thursday, 26 April 2007 23:29 (eighteen years ago)

I freakin love the Screaming Trees, man they had a good run.

someday I will Leonardo my compilation of all the B-side covers from their Sony period (including epic cover of "Freedom" by Buffalo!)

― Stormy Davis, Thursday, 26 April 2007 23:31 (eighteen years ago)

when watching the pearl jam unplugged, my step-dad was insistent that eddie vedder sounded like richie havens. being an irascible 14-year-old, i would hear none of this

― strongohulkington, Thursday, 26 April 2007 23:33 (eighteen years ago)

maybe i'm on drugs and i don't know it, but jackson c. frank's "yellow walls" sounds like proto-pearl jam circa "Daughter"

― QuantumNoise, Thursday, 26 April 2007 23:37 (eighteen years ago)

hm, I can see the Richie Havens thing.

― Stormy Davis, Thursday, 26 April 2007 23:46 (eighteen years ago)

a little bit

― Stormy Davis, Thursday, 26 April 2007 23:47 (eighteen years ago)

keep in mind my step dad listened to almost nothing but smooth jazz and sports talk

tho he did own a hot tuna album

― strongohulkington, Thursday, 26 April 2007 23:49 (eighteen years ago)

WAIT

WHO IS STRGN

IF HE IS NOT STRONGO

― David R., Friday, 27 April 2007 02:05 (eighteen years ago)

I had never bothered to listen to Silversun Pickups before - good lord what a shitty band

― Hurting 2, Friday, 27 April 2007 02:31 (eighteen years ago)

WAIT

WHO IS STRGN

IF HE IS NOT STRONGO

-- David R., Thursday, April 26, 2007 9:05 PM (Yesterday)

it's a tiny mini-me version of strongo. it kinda looks like that dancing baby from ally mcbeal.

― latebloomer, Friday, 27 April 2007 08:23 (eighteen years ago)

someday I will Leonardo my compilation of all the B-side covers from their Sony period (including epic cover of "Freedom" by Buffalo!)

that wld be AWESOME

― stevie, Friday, 27 April 2007 08:38 (eighteen years ago)

WOW I DID NOT THINK THIS WOULD BE SO HARD, strgn = struggin from old board = matt, SORRY FOR THE CONFUSION

― strgn, Friday, 27 April 2007 17:58 (eighteen years ago)

I want to see grunge fashion comeback. Maybe not all these examples...
http://img443.imageshack.us/img443/7486/untitled11ka8.jpg
http://img249.imageshack.us/img249/2029/00240mrd7.jpg
http://img106.imageshack.us/img106/3765/00070mzo4.jpg
I would buy into grunge fashion if I had the time and money to care about what clothes I wear.

― CaptainLorax, Friday, 27 April 2007 22:30 (eighteen years ago)

Don't call it a comeback, I been here for years.

― I eat cannibals, Friday, 27 April 2007 22:48 (eighteen years ago)

When the Ultimate ILM Quiz Bowl is finally assembled, there will totally be a category called "Grunge or Not Grunge?"

And the first question will be: "St. Johnny."

― nabisco, Friday, 27 April 2007 22:58 (eighteen years ago)

they came up on my shuffle the other day!

I'd say not-grunge.

Put 'em under "SY disciples" along with that band Cell.

― dmr, Saturday, 28 April 2007 01:26 (eighteen years ago)

two years pass...

so how's this revival going?

― CaptainLorax, Thursday, 8 April 2010 00:14 (fifteen years ago)

The Fluid sold out the Bowery last week IIRC

― Twink Will Ferrell (J0hn D.), Thursday, 8 April 2010 00:24 (fifteen years ago)

dang, I thought you were serious J0hn. that's cruel, I thought that somehow I'd missed 'em again -- flew out to Seattle for their Feb '09 show but totally missed their Denver June '09 show because I didn't even know about it :(

but I check their Facebook page regularly and no New York shows posted. However, just checking the Bowery website just now -- holy fuck, Caetano Veloso playing tomorrow @ Terminal 5! Apparently he's doing a five show tour of the states?? dang, waay too late now to make travel arrangements / get off work, etc. How can it be that I find out about crap like this so late? Even reading ILM regularly? I expect to see all news here i guess. must be doing something wrong

― Stormy Davis, Thursday, 8 April 2010 04:07 (fifteen years ago)

Lorax is trolling iirc

― ksh, Thursday, 8 April 2010 04:08 (fifteen years ago)

yeah no shit. thanx for the info. but John's post seemed at least possible, since they are actually reformed and playing, and I think they did sell out the Neumo's show in Seattle last year (granted that is Seattle.) No idea how many people were at the Denver show.

― Stormy Davis, Thursday, 8 April 2010 04:23 (fifteen years ago)

my comment was not directed at you

― ksh, Thursday, 8 April 2010 04:24 (fifteen years ago)

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