Best 1978 P&J Album (POLL Closes 11 May)

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P&J Album Poll No. 6.

New Wave!?!

Poll Results

Option	Votes
Wire: Pink Flag (Harvest)	15
Blondie: Parallel Lines (Chrysalis)	15
Elvis Costello: This Year's Model (Columbia)	10
Funkadelic: One Nation Under a Groove (Warner Bros.)	9
Pere Ubu: The Modern Dance (Blank)	8
Talking Heads: More Songs About Buildings and Food (Sire)	4
Nick Lowe: Pure Pop for Power People (Columbia)	4
Devo: Are We Not Men? We Are Devo! (Warner Bros.)	3
Brian Eno: Before and After Science (Island)	3
Captain Beefheart and His Magic Band: Shiny Beast (Bat Chain Puller)	3
Warren Zevon: Excitable Boy (Asylum)	3
The Cars: The Cars (Elektra)	2
The Rolling Stones: Some Girls (Rolling Stones)	2
Patti Smith Group: Easter (Arista)	2
The Clash: Give 'Em Enough Rope (Epic)	2
Willie Nelson: Stardust (Columbia)	1
Lou Reed: Street Hassle (Arista)	1
Neil Young: Comes a Time (Reprise)	1
Van Morrison: Wavelength (Warner Bros.)	0
Generation X: Generation X (Chrysalis)	0
Cheap Trick: Heaven Tonight (Epic)	0
Bob Dylan: Street Legal (Columbia)	0
Television: Adventure (Elektra)	0
The Who: Who Are You (MCA)	0
Dave Edmunds: Tracks on Wax 4 (Swan Song)	0
Ian Dury: New Boots and Panties! (Stiff)	0
David Johansen: David Johansen (Blue Sky)	0
Ramones: Road to Ruin (Sire)	0
Bruce Springsteen: Darkness at the Edge of Town (Columbia)	0
Al Green: Truth 'n Time (Hi)	0

― JN$OT, Monday, 7 May 2007 11:12 (eighteen years ago)

http://www.robertchristgau.com/xg/pnj/pj78.php

― JN$OT, Monday, 7 May 2007 11:14 (eighteen years ago)

This was the poll (and the Xgau essay) that single-handedly led me to make my career choice.

I just voted for Pere Ubu.

― xhuxk, Monday, 7 May 2007 11:15 (eighteen years ago)

I voted for the most obvious choice, again.

― JN$OT, Monday, 7 May 2007 11:16 (eighteen years ago)

wotta year! i was working in record store and starting to write revues.

torn between Dub Housing and One Nation Under a Groove, though many of these albums hold up after years of heavy listening. still, I'd probably give the retrospective nod to 1977.

suprised there's not more non-Marley reggae on this list and 76-77 as well, weren't rock critics were all over this stuff? I sure was...

― m coleman, Monday, 7 May 2007 11:25 (eighteen years ago)

What's the obvious choice?

― Rockist Scientist, Monday, 7 May 2007 11:31 (eighteen years ago)

Parallel Lines, I guess.

― Alba, Monday, 7 May 2007 11:33 (eighteen years ago)

I think you must mean The Modern Dance. You don't want to vote for the wrong Ubu album after all. (Dub Housing made the '79 list, I think.)

― JN$OT, Monday, 7 May 2007 11:34 (eighteen years ago)

Obvious choice? Er, I meant the winner, TYM.

― JN$OT, Monday, 7 May 2007 11:35 (eighteen years ago)

xp: Nah, rock critics didn't seem to be paying attention to reggae all that much then. (Honestly, it never scored very big on Pazz & Jop in the '70s; I'm not even sure that changed much later.) (I've been kind of surprised by all the "where's the Marley albums?" on these threads, to be honest. But then Marley was never close to my reggae favorite, and I've never paid much attention to his individual albums myself; hard for me to think of them as major, though that's my own fault probably.)

And the 1978 Ubu album is Modern Dance, not Dub Housing, which apparently didn't actually come out in the States until 1979 (and finished notably higher in Pazz & Jop, when it did.)

I devoured not only the main list that year, but these voters' lists, which still look way cool to me; I can barely count how many LPs I bought through the '80s on the basis of these lists alone (and Xgau's 1978 list as well, of course):

VINCE ALETTI: USA-European Connection (Marlin) 10; Don Ray: Garden of Love (Polydor) 10; Musique: Keep on Jumpin' (Prelude) 10; Voyage (Marlin) 10; Sylvester: Step II (Fantasy) 10; Alec Costandinos & the Syncophonic Orchestra: Romeo and Juliet (Casablanca) 10; Steve Reich: Music for 18 Musicians (ECM) 10; James Wells: True Love is My Destiny (AVI) 10; Ashford & Simpson: Is It Still Good to Ya (Warner Bros.) 10; Cerrone: Cerrone IV: The Golden Touch (Cotillion) 10.

LESTER BANGS: The Clash: Give 'Em Enough Rope (Epic) 30; Ramones: Road to Ruin (Sire) 20; Joe "King" Carrasco and El Molino: Tex-Mex Rock-Roll (Lisa) 15; David Johansen (Blue Sky) 5; Bob Seger & the Silver Bullet Band: Stranger in Town (Capitol) 5; Lou Reed: Street Hassle (Arista) 5; Television: Adventure (Elektra) 5; Pere Ubu: The Modern Dance (Blank) 5; Brian Eno: Before and After Science (Island) 5; No New York (Antilles) 5.

PABLO "YORUBA" GUZMAN: Parliament: Motor-Booty Affair (Casablanca) 15; Funkadelic: One Nation Under a Groove (Warner Bros.) 15; Bootsy's Rubber Band: Bootsy? Player of the Year (Warner Bros.) 15; Tito Puente: Homonajo a Beny (Tico) 10; Eddie Palmieri: Lucumi Macumba Voodoo (Epic) 10; Gil Scott-Heron and Brian Jackson: Secrets (Arista) 10; Chick Corea: Secret Agent (Polydor) 10; Tipico Ideal: Out of This World (Coco) 5; Van Morrison: Wavelength (Warner Bros.) 5; Neil Young: Comes a Time (Reprise) 5.

TOM HULL: Talking Heads: More Songs About Buildings and Food (Sire) 15; Pere Ubu: The Modern Dance (Blank) 15; Ramones: Road to Ruin (Sire) 14; Nick Lowe: Pure Pop for Now People (Columbia) 12; Blondie: Parallel Lines (Chrysalis) 12; The Clash: Give 'Em Enough Rope (Epic) 9; Brian Eno: Before and After Science (Island) 8; Dave Edmunds: Tracks on Wax 4 (Swan Song) 5; Silver Convention: Love in a Sleeper (Midsong International) 5; Captain Beefheart & the Magic Band: Shiny Beast (Bat Chain Puller) (Warner Bros.) 5.

DAVID JACKSON: Ornette Coleman: Body Meta (Artists House) 30; Captain Beefheart & the Magic Band: Shiny Beast (Bat Chain Puller) (Warner Bros.) 10; Funkadelic: One Nation Under a Groove (Warner Bros.) 10; D.J. Rogers: Love Brought Me Back (Columbia) 10; George Thorogood and the Destroyers: Move It on Over (Rounder) 9; Sun Ra: St. Louis Blues: Solo Piano (Improvising Artists) 8; Joan Armatrading: To the Limit (A&M) 8; Television: Adventure (Elektra) 5; 21st Century Singers: Saturday Night Fever (Creed) 5; Peabo Bryson: Reaching for the Sky (Capitol) 5.

JOHN MORTHLAND: David Johansen (Blue Sky) 17; Joe "King" Carrasco and El Molino: Tex-Mex Rock-Roll (Lisa) 16; The Clash: Give 'Em Enough Rope (Epic) 12; Eric Dolphy: The Berlin Concerts (Inner City) 12; Captain Beefheart & the Magic Band: Shiny Beast (Bat Chain Puller) (Warner Bros.) 12; Bob Seger & the Silver Bullet Band: Stranger in Town (Capitol) 10; Raydio (Arista) 6; Jack Clement: All I Want to Do in Life (Elektra) 5; Delbert McClinton: Second Wind (Capricorn) 5; Professor Longhair: Live on the Queen Mary (Harvest) 5.

JON PARELES: Captain Beefheart & the Magic Band: Shiny Beast (Bat Chain Puller) (Warner Bros.) 10; Air: Open Air Suit (Arista Novus) 10; NRBQ: At Yankee Stadium (Mercury) 10; Steve Reich: Music for 18 Musicians (ECM) 10; Brian Eno: Before and After Science (Island) 10; Happy the Man: Crafty Hands (Arista) 10; Jules & the Polar Bears: Got No Breeding (Columbia) 10; Weather Report: Mr. Gone (Columbia) 10; Talking Heads: More Songs About Buildings & Food (Sire) 10; Carla Bley: European Tour 1977 (Watt) 10.

TOM SMUCKER: Willie Nelson: Stardust (Columbia) 17; Funkadelic: One Nation Under a Groove (Warner Bros.) 14; Kraftwerk: The Man-Machine (Capitol) 12; The Gospel Keynotes: Gospel Fire (Nashboro) 11; Bonnie Koloc: Wild and Reculse (Epic) 10; Alec R. Costandinos & the Syncophonic Orchestra: The Hunchback of Notre Dame (Casablanca) 9; Ramones: Road to Ruin (Sire) 8; Rolling Stones: Some Girls (Rolling Stones) 8; Television: Adventure (Elektra) 6; Elvis Costello: This Year's Model (Columbia) 5.

― xhuxk, Monday, 7 May 2007 11:36 (eighteen years ago)

xp: Nah, rock critics didn't seem to be paying attention to reggae all that much then.

Didn't it become a cliche that reggae was every pro-punk critics other favourite music? Maybe not in the US.

― Alba, Monday, 7 May 2007 11:45 (eighteen years ago)

Wow, that's some list. I'll go with More Songs About Buildings and Food by a slight margin over Darkness on the Edge of Town and Comes a Time, which may be Neil's most underrated record. Of course, This Year's Model, Stardust, Who Are You, Are We Not Men? and The Cras are awfully great, too.

― Jiminy Krokus, Monday, 7 May 2007 12:20 (eighteen years ago)

Pareles' list is delightfully peculiar, btw. Big ups to Steve Reich!

― Jiminy Krokus, Monday, 7 May 2007 12:21 (eighteen years ago)

Pareles was totally prog in those days!

― xhuxk, Monday, 7 May 2007 12:24 (eighteen years ago)

Can I pick from Pablo "Yoruva" Guzman's list? (Actually, "78 is one of my favorite years for salsa, and some major albums are missing from his list, not that he was just doing salsa to begin with, but no Siembra? The weird but great Palmieri album makes up for it though.)

― Rockist Scientist, Monday, 7 May 2007 12:26 (eighteen years ago)

Yoruba I mean. (Typing standing up while putting on my belt.)

― Rockist Scientist, Monday, 7 May 2007 12:27 (eighteen years ago)

Voted Nick Lowe, but not having "All Mod Cons" in the list is a crime towards music.

― Geir Hongro, Monday, 7 May 2007 12:30 (eighteen years ago)

Or a crime against anglophilia, y'mean.

― JN$OT, Monday, 7 May 2007 12:33 (eighteen years ago)

ZEVON ZEVON ZEVON ZEVON ZEVON ZEVON ZEVON ZEVON ZEVON ZEVON ZEVON ZEVON ZEVON ZEVON ZEVON ZEVON ZEVON ZEVON ZEVON ZEVON ZEVON ZEVON ZEVON ZEVON ZEVON ZEVON ZEVON ZEVON ZEVON ZEVON ZEVON ZEVON ZEVON ZEVON ZEVON ZEVON ZEVON ZEVON ZEVON ZEVON ZEVON ZEVON ZEVON ZEVON ZEVON ZEVON ZEVON ZEVON ZEVON ZEVON ZEVON ZEVON ZEVON ZEVON ZEVON ZEVON ZEVON ZEVON ZEVON ZEVON ZEVON ZEVON ZEVON ZEVON ZEVON ZEVON ZEVON ZEVON ZEVON ZEVON ZEVON ZEVON

― Dom Passantino, Monday, 7 May 2007 12:34 (eighteen years ago)

Wasn't Frampton Comes Alive from '78? Or was that '77?

― Jiminy Krokus, Monday, 7 May 2007 12:34 (eighteen years ago)

The Zevon is really good, yes.

x-post

FCA was '77, I believe. Not that it would have made P&J either way.

― JN$OT, Monday, 7 May 2007 12:36 (eighteen years ago)

Major props to the sponsors of these polls ... has me posting on ILM about somthing other than VVM-New Times again. That is a relief. Music is king. :-)

― Jiminy Krokus, Monday, 7 May 2007 12:36 (eighteen years ago)

FCA should have ... killer rock record!

― Jiminy Krokus, Monday, 7 May 2007 12:36 (eighteen years ago)

FCA was released in 1976, it was inescapable that summer :-(

I like Modern Dance a lot, the first time I heard UBU was when that album came into the rec store and innocently played it on the store system...whoa they're from CLEVELAND wtf but I voted for One Nation Under A Groove.

loved seeing the lists from Aletti, Morthland and Guzman though I'm surprised Pablo didn't vote for DEVO! forgot what a critics fave that first Johansen record was, it's kind of a bar-band classic I guess.

but where oh where are Burning Spear Mighty Diamonds Culture Agustus Pablo etc etc etc tho i bet LK Johnson shows up on 1979

― m coleman, Monday, 7 May 2007 12:44 (eighteen years ago)

A crime against Anglophilia is a crime against music.

― Geir Hongro, Monday, 7 May 2007 12:46 (eighteen years ago)

Ha ha.

― JN$OT, Monday, 7 May 2007 12:51 (eighteen years ago)

will you arrest me you big ol racist?

― 600, Monday, 7 May 2007 12:52 (eighteen years ago)

Voted for Talking Heads, but just as easily could have voted for Pere Ubu, EC, Funkadelic, or Parallel Lines.

― Alfred, Lord Sotosyn, Monday, 7 May 2007 12:58 (eighteen years ago)

Parallel Lines. Thought Zevon was a close contender.

― Joe, Monday, 7 May 2007 13:19 (eighteen years ago)

Total life-changing year for me--the start of the best five-year stretch of music that I've ever experienced first-hand: '78-'82. I think even the next two or three lists are better than this, but I love this one lots. Not sure what to vote for.

― sw00ds, Monday, 7 May 2007 13:48 (eighteen years ago)

I still hadn't seen or heard of P&J or Village Voice or Robert Christgau in 1978 (and had no concept of, or interest in, "black music," either, to be honest), but back then I filled out (though never sent in) [i]Creem reader polls, which were a lot of fun. To my disappointment and horror, however, I came across the '78 one a few years ago, and discovered that I had written in a tie between Abba and the Bee Gees for "worst group." Which is weird, because I don't even remember thinking that much about them. If [i]Saturday Night Fever was on this list, I'd probably vote for it, just to atone for my sins against disco.

― sw00ds, Monday, 7 May 2007 13:58 (eighteen years ago)

Ah yes, sins against disco. I'm quite sure many of us old-timers have been there at one time or another.

― JN$OT, Monday, 7 May 2007 14:01 (eighteen years ago)

This list is fucking hopeless, by the way.

Just had a look at my iTunes library and found that the following key things are missing:

Marvin Gaye - Here, My Dear
Kraftwerk - The Man Machine
Chic - C'est Chic
Nina Simone - Baltimore
Gang of Four - Entertainment

Never mind The Only Ones, Buzzcocks, Magazine, Undertones et al. And Althea & Donna. And The Rutles.

― Alba, Monday, 7 May 2007 14:02 (eighteen years ago)

Clearly, I also need to keep in check my sins against italics.

― sw00ds, Monday, 7 May 2007 14:03 (eighteen years ago)

Christgau really sounds like a psycho in that essay with all the name-calling.

― Rockist Scientist, Monday, 7 May 2007 14:04 (eighteen years ago)

The Marvin and GO4 records were '79 releases, I believe.

x-post

― JN$OT, Monday, 7 May 2007 14:04 (eighteen years ago)

xxx-post

Entertainment
Are you sure? did you engineer that album or something? Because I think that was '79 in the UK and it shows up in the '80 P&J.

Never mind The Only Ones, Buzzcocks, Magazine, Undertones et al. And Althea & Donna. And The Rutles
You might have heard of this country. It's called America.

― sw00ds, Monday, 7 May 2007 14:06 (eighteen years ago)

Christgau really sounds like a psycho in that essay with all the name-calling.

I don't see why.

― JN$OT, Monday, 7 May 2007 14:07 (eighteen years ago)

there are some good ones missing, but a great list and I remember being constantly surprised by 1978...Costello, Lowe, Ubu, a new Beefheart record! I voted for Ubu and feel bad I didn't for Funkadelic. Anyway, the Gaye record is surely great and Big Star's Thirdwas released that year, altho recorded four years earlier. My fave of the Big Star records. But the Ubu stuff strikes me as the most prescient.

― whisperineddhurt, Monday, 7 May 2007 14:09 (eighteen years ago)

You might have heard of this country. It's called America.

Well, that's why I put those in the "never mind..." list. But Dave sodding Edmunds made the list.

Oops, re: Entertainment. Here My Dear was '78 though.

― Alba, Monday, 7 May 2007 14:14 (eighteen years ago)

Yeah, yer right about the Marvin. Although it was released in Dec., so I assume many critics wouldn't have had a chance to hear it in time for the poll.

― JN$OT, Monday, 7 May 2007 14:16 (eighteen years ago)

Also, I think Here, My Dear was received pretty poorly at the time; it was considered nothing more than the ultimate fuck-off album due to its backstory. Silly critics.

― Dimension 5ive, Monday, 7 May 2007 14:20 (eighteen years ago)

Although that certainly doesn't explain why it didn't make the '79 poll.

x-post

― JN$OT, Monday, 7 May 2007 14:21 (eighteen years ago)

But Dave sodding Edmunds made the list.

True enough... it always seemed like he snuck in the door riding on Nick Lowe's coattails.

― sw00ds, Monday, 7 May 2007 14:22 (eighteen years ago)

Were Kraftwerk obscure in the US or did they just not like The Man Machine?

I thought rock critics kind of liked Chic, too.

― Alba, Monday, 7 May 2007 14:24 (eighteen years ago)

Pretty sure that Kraftwerk were mostly considered a novelty by US critics at that time. They even had a novelty top 40 hit ("Autobahn").

― sw00ds, Monday, 7 May 2007 14:31 (eighteen years ago)

No one, outside of Lester Bangs, I don't think, thought they were in any way important... someone should correct me if I'm wrong.

― sw00ds, Monday, 7 May 2007 14:32 (eighteen years ago)

Christgau really sounds like a psycho in that essay with all the name-calling.

I'm curious what name-calling you're referring to. Do you mean his notion that the anti-disco backlash was closet racist?

― o. nate, Monday, 7 May 2007 15:15 (eighteen years ago)

These assholes are such fanatics that they seize upon the first hint of synthesized percussion or rhythmic strings or chukka-chukka guitar--hell, the first lilt--as proof that anybody from Bowie to Poco has "gone disco," though most often the discos could care less even when it's true. . . .
. . .True, most music bizzers are relieved that the Sex Pistols have vanished into infamy; they still find the Clash strident and the Ramones simplistic, declaring such bands unacceptable to the imaginary consumer who personifies their own complacency and cowardice. But because it's the nature of complacent cowards to hedge all bets--and because they want to prove they're not, you know, square--they reassert their own putative attachment to "good" rock and roll at the same time, thus easing the sales breakthrough of 'twixt-wave-and-stream bands like the Cars and Cheap Trick.

― Rockist Scientist, Monday, 7 May 2007 15:33 (eighteen years ago)

Sure he sounds a little pissed-off, but psycho? I don't think so.

― JN$OT, Monday, 7 May 2007 15:36 (eighteen years ago)

Skipping 146 messages at this point... Click here if you want to load them all.

Wasn't reggae sort of considered a commercial failure in the US by that time (even though Marley's Exodus album had apparently gone top 10 in '77)?

― JN$OT, Wednesday, 9 May 2007 16:41 (eighteen years ago)

American critics got it, I think--Exodus is a fucking bore.

― sw00ds, Wednesday, 9 May 2007 16:44 (eighteen years ago)

I don't believe Ian Dury, Wire, Captain Beefheart or Pere Ubu were exactly huge commercial success stories....

― Stewart Osborne, Wednesday, 9 May 2007 16:47 (eighteen years ago)

Yeah, the critics got it, but commercial failure meant fewer releases in the US by Island and others. Also, the heavier, dub-oriented stuff, was pretty much completely ignored.

BTW, it was actually Rastaman Vibration that went top 10 (in '76, I think) not Exodus. Still pretty boring, I know.

xp

― JN$OT, Wednesday, 9 May 2007 16:50 (eighteen years ago)

Rastaman Vibration went #8; Exodus went #20; Kaya in 1978 (which Xgau put in his top 30 that year, looks like) went #50.

Was reggae ever considered a commercial success Stateside in the pre-Musical Youth/Eddy Grant era, outside of the isolated Desmond Dekker or Millie Small or Johnny Nash single? Marley never got much rock or r&b airplay in the '70s when he wasn't being covered by Eric Clapton, did he?

― xhuxk, Wednesday, 9 May 2007 16:57 (eighteen years ago)

Not real reggae, I guess. The Police probably don't count.

― JN$OT, Wednesday, 9 May 2007 17:03 (eighteen years ago)

"Magnet and Steel" by Walter Egan was a big hit...and come to think of it, it's one of my favourite singles of 1978.

― sw00ds, Wednesday, 9 May 2007 17:04 (eighteen years ago)

Though it might've come out in 1977 in Britain...I forget.

― sw00ds, Wednesday, 9 May 2007 17:05 (eighteen years ago)

Also "Hotel California" went to #1 way back in 1976.

― xhuxk, Wednesday, 9 May 2007 17:08 (eighteen years ago)

We are Devo

― whatever, Wednesday, 9 May 2007 19:42 (eighteen years ago)

most of xgau's essay is right on. but to employ a popular neologism he implicitly "privileges" rock & roll over disco. of course he doesn't have the 20/20 hindsight I'm enjoying right now which affords a view of how disco utterly transformed pop music and the music business.

I think this is really smart and gets at the heart of the problems some people are having with Xgau placing disco in a rock & roll continuum. It renders rock & roll normative, unquestioned, always there. A good analogy is a computer operating system (I'm on a Mac so e.g. OSX). Unless there's something fundamentally wrong with your computer, you don't think about your operating system. You can't even really see it. It helps your computer work, allows your programs to run. (Foucault would call this the episteme.)

Xgau isn't exactly saying that rock & roll allowed disco to operate. But the effect of his words transform rock & roll into a sort of OSX. In 1978, this was a necessary move to counter those "people out there...setting "rock" up against disco." But even if those people eventually came around to disco, there's a way in which rock & roll is still the victor because it supersedes disco in this scenario.

The real challenge would be to get these people to come around to the most un-rock & roll disco available in 1978. Which would be what, though? "I Feel Love?" But Jon Savage said punks at least dug that record (along with "Magic Fly" or whatever that Space song was called).

But again, this essay was written in 1978 (actually 1979, right?). As Coleman suggests, we can now treat disco as its own operating system and place all sorts of things in its continuum - rap (esp. early), post-punk, house (duh), Debbie Gibson, Moby, almost all strains of techno (even Ricardo Villalobos whom I'm told people dance to), etc. Then we can go back and call things like Wilson Pickett's "Land of 1000 Dances" (best version, btw) disco. And clubs/nights like Squeezebox/Don Hill's in Manhattan and Saphir in Montréal play AC/DC, The Sex Pistols, and Billy Childish for your disco delectation. I doubt Xgau would have problems with any of this.

Also, compare the 1978 P&J to his brilliant review of Red Hot + Blue: A Tribute to Cole Porter here:

http://robertchristgau.com/get_album.php?id=675

Written over a decade later, he places rock in a pop continuum (although I still don't get what's so great about Sinead O'Connor's "You Do Something to Me").

― Kevin John Bozelka, Wednesday, 9 May 2007 19:47 (eighteen years ago)

I've always loved Vince Aletti's lists. They're so damn silly (would calling them "punk" amount to the epistemic pumping outlined above?). I think disco is the greatest popular music genre of the latter half of the twentieth century. But it's just not an album genre and all of the disco albums on his list (which is most of it) contain some wretched minutes (althought I've never even heard of James Wells...who was he? disco?). Still, I'm glad they're there. Must have pissed off a lot of critics/readers.

― Kevin John Bozelka, Wednesday, 9 May 2007 19:56 (eighteen years ago)

the most un-rock & roll disco available in 1978. Which would be what, though? "I Feel Love?"

Only if you never heard Kraftwerk (which many critics, admittedly, probably hadn't at that point.)

― xhuxk, Wednesday, 9 May 2007 20:01 (eighteen years ago)

Same with ABBA. I've heard all of their albums many, many times. But there's not a single one consistently great from beginning to end. The early ones are reliable in their kookiness but they offer less highlights. Christ, even ABBA Gold demands the sue of the skip button.

― Kevin John Bozelka, Wednesday, 9 May 2007 20:02 (eighteen years ago)

Oh yeah, the poll. I can't think of a more blandly great year than 1978. Not really married to any of these even though I dig many. I'd go with X-Ray Spex if I could (that I'm married to!). So I'll go with Funkadelic.

― Kevin John Bozelka, Wednesday, 9 May 2007 20:08 (eighteen years ago)

Geir's a busy guy this week. On the Stargate thread he dismissed r'n'b and hiphop producers plus he shrugged his shoulders at Brill Building, Motown, and Stax songwriters, and now his theories here.

Not Brill Building and Motown, no. They predated The Beatles, and as such they are forgiven. The Beatles changed music forever, and after The Beatles everyone should do like The Beatles.

― Geir Hongro, Wednesday, 9 May 2007 20:09 (eighteen years ago)

the most un-rock & roll disco available in 1978. Which would be what, though? "I Feel Love?"

I'd rather say Baccara and Boney M

― Geir Hongro, Wednesday, 9 May 2007 20:14 (eighteen years ago)

Also, if I remember right, The Rolling Stone Illustrated History of Rock'n'Roll (ha, is that what it was called?), which came out a couple years, later, included "I Feel Love" in its art-rock discography.

And Boney M (who I loved) covered several rock songs (by Neil Young, Creedence, Yardbirds, etc), not to mention Bob Marley. And their beats were often not that far from Gary Glitter-style glam rock, either.

― xhuxk, Wednesday, 9 May 2007 20:24 (eighteen years ago)

it's just not an album genre and all of the disco albums on his list (which is most of it) contain some wretched minutes

I totally disagree with this too, by the way. Don't see how they contain any more minutes of wretchedness than most of the rock records above. And disco, when it's good, sounds as listenable and consistent to me on album as punk, reggae, or AOR ever did. But yeah, Aletti's lists were always awesome - no argument there.

― xhuxk, Wednesday, 9 May 2007 20:31 (eighteen years ago)

Before & After Science

... which is the best crossbreed of Eno's pop and ambient leanings, evar.

― stephen, Wednesday, 9 May 2007 20:32 (eighteen years ago)

Wire Wire Wire Wire Wire. (wotta year tho)

― Maciej, Wednesday, 9 May 2007 20:58 (eighteen years ago)

Don't see how they contain any more minutes of wretchedness than most of the rock records above.

Well, we'll just have to disagree then. I'll take Machine's "There But For The Grace Of God Go I" over ANY of the albums on the P&J album poll. But the Machine album is worse than practically any of them.

Or to keep it to 1978, "You Make Me Feel (Mighty Real)" smokes all the P&J albums. But Step II smokes only a few.

I do like the Don Ray, Voyage, and Cerrone albums. But they're not great. And I never figured out what the big whoop was on USA-European Connection.

And is Keep On Jumpin' even an album? I know it is an album but it doesn't signify as an album - two great singles each accompanied by an awful b-side, the SAME awful b-side.

Or take Tantra's The Double Album.The very title tries valiantly to enforce a gestalt that just isn't there. Don't get me wrong - I adore every loopy minute of it (used to spin "The Hills of Katmandu" in and out of "Wishbone" into boogie perpetuity on dead nights at a leather bar). But again, it feels more like two 12" singles doubled up with some remarkable b-sides.

I don't even think disco works in comp form as much as people let on. Rhino's Disco Years series is genius. But their Disco Box is a mess. And Barry Walters went waaaay overboard giving a 10 to that Give Your Body Up series in Spin - too damn R&B overall. Same with the two Super Disco comps. That Tom Moulton comp from last year was wildly ocerrated. Etc.

Or even my fave disco band Chic. Most of their albums work as albums. But I'm taking The Best of Chic Vol. 2 (Rhino 1992) to that desert island.

― Kevin John Bozelka, Wednesday, 9 May 2007 21:43 (eighteen years ago)

Also, if I remember right, The Rolling Stone Illustrated History of Rock'n'Roll (ha, is that what it was called?), which came out a couple years, later, included "I Feel Love" in its art-rock discography.

It's actually in John Rockwell's essay. He mentioned a version of it was "performed in New York (?) by Blondie and Fripp." Wuzdat?

But yeah, Baccara is the disco of rockist nightmare. Also Madleen Kane? France Joli?

― Kevin John Bozelka, Wednesday, 9 May 2007 21:46 (eighteen years ago)

know it is an album but it doesn't signify as an album

I adore every loopy minute of it...[but] it feels more like two 12" singles doubled up with some remarkable b-sides.

Most of their albums work as albums

Ha ha, I don't even know what these mean! A good album is a good album is a bunch of good songs that sound good together. (I'd accuse you of being a rockist, actually, if I believed there was such a thing.)

Then, again, I never understood The Wall, either.

― xhuxk, Wednesday, 9 May 2007 22:02 (eighteen years ago)

And oh yeah, Don Ray's album is great!

― xhuxk, Wednesday, 9 May 2007 22:03 (eighteen years ago)

know it is an album but it doesn't signify as an album

I adore every loopy minute of it...[but] it feels more like two 12" singles doubled up with some remarkable b-sides.

Most of their albums work as albums

Ha ha, I don't even know what these mean!

O Teena Marie, grant me the serenity!

Come on, Chuck, you know exactly what those mean. The keyword above is "gestalt." None of the albums I mentioned in that post have it (except the Chic ones..and some of those Disco Years comps). And while the Voyage and, esp., Costandinos albums on Aletti's list do have gestalt, they feature (some) bad songs, IMO (p.s. that Hunchback album on Smucker's list is barely even disco).

For further comment, check out Xgau on Golden Afrique, Vol. 2[/i] here:

http://robertchristgau.com/get_album.php?id=13338

But so what? Who gives a toss about albums? Singles have always meant more to me than albums which is one of 1,234,567 reasons why I said "I think disco is the greatest popular music genre of the latter half of the twentieth century." Now I ask you: could a rockist utter that statement? And besides, gay people can't be rockists (except those that are).

In short, please don't write Love is the Message: The 500 Greatest Disco Albums in the Universe. But do write Mighty Real: The 500 Greatest Singles Albums in the Universe .

― Kevin John Bozelka, Thursday, 10 May 2007 01:08 (eighteen years ago)

Ah ha! Look at this stolen from the 1979 P&J poll thread:

Mike Freedberg ("it's impossible to poll disco, or even black slow music, fairly from LPs alone")

'Nuff said.

― Kevin John Bozelka, Thursday, 10 May 2007 01:30 (eighteen years ago)

It's impossible to poll any music from LPs alone!

That doesn't mean there's no such thing as good albums, though.

― xhuxk, Thursday, 10 May 2007 01:31 (eighteen years ago)

But especially disco!

― Kevin John Bozelka, Thursday, 10 May 2007 01:33 (eighteen years ago)

No one noticed this:

Nick Lowe: Pure Pop for Power People

― Kevin John Bozelka, Thursday, 10 May 2007 01:33 (eighteen years ago)

Apparently a (great) typo from the original poll.

― Kevin John Bozelka, Thursday, 10 May 2007 01:35 (eighteen years ago)

The statement "disco is sometimes great rock and roll" could only be problematic to people who hate either disco or rock and roll. Fuck 'em both.

And I'm totally convinced that many of the catchiest punk bands could have become big in the US if given the chance. It ended up becoming "music that appealed to a niche audience" (to quote Sundar) because nobody got to hear it.

― Patrick, Thursday, 10 May 2007 02:30 (eighteen years ago)

The statement "disco is sometimes great rock and roll" could only be problematic to people who hate either disco or rock and roll.

Also problematic to people who insist that all disco is great, and that no disco has more artistic merit than other disco.

― Geir Hongro, Thursday, 10 May 2007 12:12 (eighteen years ago)

[i]Nick Lowe: Pure Pop for Power People[(i]

Nope. The actual title of that album is "Jesus Of Cool" though ;) and it's damn about time it is remastered an rereleased!

― Geir Hongro, Thursday, 10 May 2007 12:13 (eighteen years ago)

It was entitled Pure Pop For Power People in America.

It is not unknown for albums to be given different titles in different countries.

Were you aware that there were other countries in the world?

― Marcello Carlin, Thursday, 10 May 2007 12:33 (eighteen years ago)

Pure Pop for Now People, actually.

― JN$OT, Thursday, 10 May 2007 12:36 (eighteen years ago)

Quite.

― Marcello Carlin, Thursday, 10 May 2007 12:44 (eighteen years ago)

The Comstock of Cool

― James Redd and the Blecchs, Thursday, 10 May 2007 14:47 (eighteen years ago)

that "power" typo is mine, I'm afraid. I retyped that thing for the Xgau site back when I had more time on my hands.

KJB and Cheddy need to start their own "arguing about disco" thread and let the rest of us watch.

― Matos W.K., Thursday, 10 May 2007 21:40 (eighteen years ago)

and btw, Christgau is totally wrong about GA2, thing moves wonderfully

― Matos W.K., Thursday, 10 May 2007 21:42 (eighteen years ago)

That "power" typo is mine, I'm afraid. I retyped that thing for the Xgau site back when I had more time on my hands.

Was the "Back To Boredom" by James Runt your "typo" too? ;)

― Geir Hongro, Thursday, 10 May 2007 22:12 (eighteen years ago)

KJB and Cheddy need to start their own "arguing about disco" thread and let the rest of us watch.

Was this a mean comment or a friendly one? Your answer will determine whether or not I'll tell everyone about the Don Ray meets Cerrone dream I just had.

― Kevin John Bozelka, Thursday, 10 May 2007 23:00 (eighteen years ago)

Excellent. 9 votes for Funkadelic

― Brigadier Lethbridge-Pfunkboy, Thursday, 10 May 2007 23:15 (eighteen years ago)

Kevin, who precisely do you think wrote this? Captain I Hate Disco? I don't think so.

― Matos W.K., Friday, 11 May 2007 04:48 (eighteen years ago)

Was the "Back To Boredom" by James Runt your "typo" too? ;)

in the 1978 P&J? what?

― Matos W.K., Friday, 11 May 2007 04:49 (eighteen years ago)

Nice. Wire & Blondie tied for first place--Xgau would be in heaven.

― JN$OT, Friday, 11 May 2007 06:25 (eighteen years ago)

Ok then, Captain I Love Disco, here's my dream:

I brought both Cerrone and Don Ray into town to spin (that's how you know it's a dream - Austin is hardly a disco inferno). It was daytime so presumably we were killing time before moving to the club. We were all chilling in my living room making polite but mildly awkward chit chat. One reason for the awkwardness was because they didn't know one another!

Me: Oh, I'm sorry. I just assumed you knew each other. (To Cerrone) This is Don Ray (spoken with reverence as if dropping a silent "The Great" before his name).

Cerrone's jaw dropped. He stood up and shook Ray's hand.

Cerrone: Oh wow. Don Ray. It's such an honor to meet you.

But Don Ray remained seated and rather unmoved by this adulation.

Me: Don, this is Cerrone (spoken with same reverence as above).

But Don just smiled weakly as if he didn't know who Cerrone was. So Cerrone just sat back down, rather dejected. Mildly awkward morphed into VERY awkward. So awkward, in fact, that I woke up at this point.

The end.

P.S. Both looked nothing like they did on their album covers; they were much prettier.

― Kevin John Bozelka, Friday, 11 May 2007 07:16 (eighteen years ago)

Nice result!

― Mark G, Friday, 11 May 2007 08:50 (eighteen years ago)

fave full-length disco album thread:

http://www.ilxor.com/ILX/ThreadSelectedControllerServlet?boardid=41&threadid=50423

― scott seward, Friday, 11 May 2007 14:20 (eighteen years ago)

"And I never figured out what the big whoop was on USA-European Connection."

it's, like, PERFECT or something. so amazing. listen again!

― scott seward, Friday, 11 May 2007 14:24 (eighteen years ago)

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