Lennon vs Lydon vs Morrissey vs Gallagher

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The frontman of the "most" "important" British bands of the 60s, 70s, 80s, and 90s was a second generation Irishman who fancied himself as a bit of a wit and social commentator.

Please discuss who's better, who's best, and what this actually means.

― Dom Passantino, Tuesday, 8 May 2007 13:07 (eighteen years ago)

Lennon wasn't a second generation Irishman

― Tom D., Tuesday, 8 May 2007 13:08 (eighteen years ago)

Third, then. Picky picky picky.

― Dom Passantino, Tuesday, 8 May 2007 13:11 (eighteen years ago)

lennon, morrissey and gallagher always seemed like pastiches, not so much of themselves as such. lydon, the most cartoonish, somehow seems less of a pastiche

morrissey is the most appealing because of his interest in visual imagery, and this sense of being 'a working class man playing at being a working class man'. could argue same for gallagher as well, except with him it seems unintentional.

theres something a bit martin parr about morrissey, and this was only accentuated by his los angeles relocation

― 600, Tuesday, 8 May 2007 13:13 (eighteen years ago)

Well it is a good idea, but it falls down there... he wasn't even a Catholic! (xp)

― Tom D., Tuesday, 8 May 2007 13:13 (eighteen years ago)

everyone in the northwest is x generation irish, is this what its like in boston or chicago. its the big difference between over there and my side of the pennines, where xgeneration irishness is rare

― 600, Tuesday, 8 May 2007 13:15 (eighteen years ago)

Lydon seemed to be the one most comfortable with the "end" of his band. Lennon and Morrissey were always "that guy from The Beatles/The Smiths", Gallagher would possibly crumble to dust if Oasis split.

― Dom Passantino, Tuesday, 8 May 2007 13:17 (eighteen years ago)

Lydon and Morrissey seem the most Irish to me

― Tom D., Tuesday, 8 May 2007 13:18 (eighteen years ago)

Gallagher would fail the cricket bat test though, he's said before that in an England/ROI game he'd throw his weight behind Staunton's boys. Morrissey is obviously "Irish Blood, English Heart", Lydon called his autobiography "No Blacks No Dogs No Irish".

― Dom Passantino, Tuesday, 8 May 2007 13:20 (eighteen years ago)

and Lennon wrote "the luck of the irish"

― Mark G, Tuesday, 8 May 2007 13:22 (eighteen years ago)

And Lydon wrote "Rise". I probably like Lydon's work most of the four, but 600's points about Morrissey as a character are inneresting. I wonder if "working class man playing at being a working class man" is something that happens to every wc person who ends up outside of the grind of the factory. You could def make the same observation about Mark E. Smith for example.

― Noodle Vague, Tuesday, 8 May 2007 13:26 (eighteen years ago)

Not too sure about *every* working class man, but it's certainly a peculiarity specific to the north. Think of your blue comedians: yr Bernard Mannings et al.

The southern stereotype tends to lean more to Cockney Wanker style nouveau richedom, maybe?

― Dom Passantino, Tuesday, 8 May 2007 13:28 (eighteen years ago)

Okay but you can still be playing on your "salt of the earth, guv" roots from a bungalow in Surrey? But thinking about it there's plenty of other ways of playing class alienation; pretending to be something else altogether for a start.

― Noodle Vague, Tuesday, 8 May 2007 13:30 (eighteen years ago)

[Resists temptation to post image of the mallet-wielding melon-smasher going under the professional name of Gallagher]

― James Redd and the Blecchs, Tuesday, 8 May 2007 13:30 (eighteen years ago)

Gallagher is, by some considerable distance and in every conceivable way, the least interesting of the four

― Tom D., Tuesday, 8 May 2007 13:32 (eighteen years ago)

i dont think 'wc man playing at being wc man' is attributable to that many people, and i dont see it describing mark e smith (perhaps in some interviews), i think it desribes morrissey in a way it doesnt describe MES. its possible/probable that morrissey was conflicted about class before his success, the fascination with the other etc

― 600, Tuesday, 8 May 2007 13:57 (eighteen years ago)

What made Morrissey more "other" than normal then? His Irishness? His homosexuality? Or his general "Morrissey"ness?

― Dom Passantino, Tuesday, 8 May 2007 14:38 (eighteen years ago)

no, he wasnt 'the other'. he had interest in 'the other'

― 600, Tuesday, 8 May 2007 14:50 (eighteen years ago)

Morrissey's fetishisation of 1950s and 60s kitchen sink British culture always creeped me out, though. I feel the same for northern kids today who live their life out in DVDs of, I dunno, Saturday Night, Sunday Morning and The Loneliness of the Long Distance Runner. Just seems like stealth conservatism.

― Dom Passantino, Tuesday, 8 May 2007 14:52 (eighteen years ago)

wait, Morrissey is gay? WHOA

― Dimension 5ive, Tuesday, 8 May 2007 14:53 (eighteen years ago)

Yeah, but he's old enough to remember it actually being like that.

xpost actually.

― Mark G, Tuesday, 8 May 2007 14:54 (eighteen years ago)

Plus he's interested in (among) the first (fairly) genuine portrayals of working class life in British culture?

― Tom D., Tuesday, 8 May 2007 14:56 (eighteen years ago)

Morrissey was born... 59? No way could he have remembered at first hand 95% of the Smiths' cover stars.

(xp)

― Dom Passantino, Tuesday, 8 May 2007 14:56 (eighteen years ago)

Well, I was born in 61, and I remember the style of things (the town, etc) being much like life as portrayed by those films. Not 'going to see the actual films themselves', nur.

― Mark G, Tuesday, 8 May 2007 15:02 (eighteen years ago)

Seems like a lot of people I knew were really into "Saturday Night, Sunday Morning", "A Taste of Honey" and "Billy Liar" etc... esp. "Billy Liar"

― Tom D., Tuesday, 8 May 2007 15:04 (eighteen years ago)

... indie kids, mods etc

― Tom D., Tuesday, 8 May 2007 15:06 (eighteen years ago)

You know, for years I could not get off a train I was due to travel out on. (You know, to grab a case or a newspaper close or whatever).

Years later, I found out why: It was in fear of Julie Christie leaving town without me!

― Mark G, Tuesday, 8 May 2007 15:07 (eighteen years ago)

Oh man, Julie Christie in "Billy Liar"!

― Tom D., Tuesday, 8 May 2007 15:09 (eighteen years ago)

Yes.

― Mark G, Tuesday, 8 May 2007 15:09 (eighteen years ago)

stealth american anglophiles are lurking, taking notes

― sexyDancer, Tuesday, 8 May 2007 15:10 (eighteen years ago)

Morrissey was probably more interested in Leonard Rossiter in "Billy Liar" mind you

― Tom D., Tuesday, 8 May 2007 15:11 (eighteen years ago)

Modern day attempts at "hey, remember culture of 25 years ago" in indie always fall far far further down than The Smiths. See: The Others - Stan Bowles, The Libertines - Whatever Happened To The Likely Lads, etc.

― Dom Passantino, Tuesday, 8 May 2007 15:15 (eighteen years ago)

And so they should.

"Always" is pushing it. Mind you, it's "Thesedays" so maybe they tend to swerve past the "hey let's copy the Smiths" and so they should.

― Mark G, Tuesday, 8 May 2007 15:18 (eighteen years ago)

The Libertines - Whatever Happened To The Likely Lads, etc.

i know 0 about this. how do you mean?

― 696, Tuesday, 8 May 2007 15:19 (eighteen years ago)

I think it was called "What became" or something like that. Barat et Doherty trying to paint themselves as modern day Bollams and Bewseseseses. Except Bolam and Bewes wouldn't be as pussy as to make up a three years after their break-up, those two motherfuckers still aren't talking 30 years hence.

― Dom Passantino, Tuesday, 8 May 2007 15:21 (eighteen years ago)

oh, ok. that was a good show

― 696, Tuesday, 8 May 2007 15:21 (eighteen years ago)

A classic. Dom Passantino's vote for 4th best British sitcom ever, fact fans.

― Dom Passantino, Tuesday, 8 May 2007 15:22 (eighteen years ago)

Barat & Doherty = Bob & Thelma

― Tom D., Tuesday, 8 May 2007 15:23 (eighteen years ago)

Polly and Manuel, morelike.

― Dom Passantino, Tuesday, 8 May 2007 15:24 (eighteen years ago)

George & Mildred, amirite?

― Tom D., Tuesday, 8 May 2007 15:25 (eighteen years ago)

Dom & Roland

― 696, Tuesday, 8 May 2007 15:26 (eighteen years ago)

http://image.guardian.co.uk/sys-images/Guardian/Pix/gallery/2005/02/18/carl300.jpg

"JY-HOOOOON!"

― Dom Passantino, Tuesday, 8 May 2007 15:27 (eighteen years ago)

http://futility.typepad.com/futility/images/pete_doherty.jpg
Que?

― Mark G, Tuesday, 8 May 2007 15:34 (eighteen years ago)

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