Indie jazz (jazz in indie) (indie kids trying to be jazz)

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What indie bands (or rock or pop bands) have successfully interpolated jazz ideas and / or techniques into their music?

By successful I mean "without being a horrendous mess or looking like cockfarmers", although it might be fun to name those too.

― Scik Mouthy, Tuesday, 8 May 2007 13:43 (eighteen years ago)

None because, by the nature of indie, "technique" doesn't come into the equation and without technique I'm afraid you can't do jazz successfully.

― Marcello Carlin, Tuesday, 8 May 2007 13:44 (eighteen years ago)

The post-Pop Group Bristol wave (Rip Rig, Pigbag, Maximum Joy) being the partial exception that proves the rule.

― Marcello Carlin, Tuesday, 8 May 2007 13:45 (eighteen years ago)

Other more recent examples I can think of are Diary and Pence Eleven, but neither is exactly a household name, even by indie standards.

― Marcello Carlin, Tuesday, 8 May 2007 13:46 (eighteen years ago)

I was thinking Talk Talk and Guillemots, perhaps.

― Scik Mouthy, Tuesday, 8 May 2007 13:47 (eighteen years ago)

the Zutons has a sax

― blueski, Tuesday, 8 May 2007 13:47 (eighteen years ago)

What about Tortoise and all that mob

― Tom D., Tuesday, 8 May 2007 13:48 (eighteen years ago)

Indie musicians aren't *supposed* to have technique but a lot of them secretly do.

― Hurting 2, Tuesday, 8 May 2007 13:50 (eighteen years ago)

James Chance maybe but not esp. successfully afaic

otherwise Steely Dan, quoting Horace Silver in "Rikki Don't Lose That Number" being the best-known example in the rock/pop sweepstakes.

there was a great comp LP ca. 1988 collecting vocal cuts from the Crusaders albums, "Street Life" etc, like jazz-fusion fused w/pop.

― m coleman, Tuesday, 8 May 2007 13:50 (eighteen years ago)

Less so postrock, I think. There have to be pop songs present, either before or during the interpolation of jazz. You have to be able to imagien them on Top of the Pops or maybe daytime Radio 1 / Radio 2. So not Tortoise.

― Scik Mouthy, Tuesday, 8 May 2007 13:53 (eighteen years ago)

HI DERE STING

― Noodle Vague, Tuesday, 8 May 2007 13:53 (eighteen years ago)

Comstock otm.

― James Redd and the Blecchs, Tuesday, 8 May 2007 13:54 (eighteen years ago)

Style Council

― Tom D., Tuesday, 8 May 2007 13:55 (eighteen years ago)

Working Week

― Tom D., Tuesday, 8 May 2007 13:55 (eighteen years ago)

The Specials

― Tom D., Tuesday, 8 May 2007 13:55 (eighteen years ago)

.. that era

― Tom D., Tuesday, 8 May 2007 13:55 (eighteen years ago)

There's the non-Krautrock Sand, who've got a thread somewhere on ILM I think.

― Noodle Vague, Tuesday, 8 May 2007 13:56 (eighteen years ago)

I'm not seeing any indie here.

― Marcello Carlin, Tuesday, 8 May 2007 13:56 (eighteen years ago)

I think he broadened it to pop and rock in general.

― Noodle Vague, Tuesday, 8 May 2007 13:56 (eighteen years ago)

Well I'm sticking to the thread title since if we're going to incorporate ALL rock and pop we'd be here forever.

― Marcello Carlin, Tuesday, 8 May 2007 13:58 (eighteen years ago)

On a purely indie basis there is also the Birthday Party.

― Marcello Carlin, Tuesday, 8 May 2007 13:58 (eighteen years ago)

Tied and Tickled Trio, who feature dudes from Notwist, are amazing. Check out Observing Systems on Morr Music.

― pgwp, Tuesday, 8 May 2007 13:59 (eighteen years ago)

I suppose Stereolab count, even though I preferred them when they were warped pop instead of ripping off Don Cherry riffs.

― Marcello Carlin, Tuesday, 8 May 2007 14:00 (eighteen years ago)

The Specials, Style Council, Working Week - they're all sort of indie, no?

― Tom D., Tuesday, 8 May 2007 14:01 (eighteen years ago)

Also Blurt, Clock DVA (early), shit like that

― Tom D., Tuesday, 8 May 2007 14:01 (eighteen years ago)

There's that Pavement instrumental that sounds like Take Five, but I don't know if you'd count htat.

― Hurting 2, Tuesday, 8 May 2007 14:03 (eighteen years ago)

Agree about Blurt and Clock DVA, but the Specials, Style Council and Working Week were never indie (except the Specials for one single) and I don't really see it in the Specials apart from the "East St Louis Toodle-Oo" influence on "Ghost Town."

The Style Council doing jazz were hopeless; painfully inept (though I suppose there might be a case for Everything But The Girl).

Working Week stopped being jazz after their first single, except for that 12-inch which came with their first album.

― Marcello Carlin, Tuesday, 8 May 2007 14:05 (eighteen years ago)

MC5 and the Stooges did "cover versions" of Sun Ra and Pharoah Sanders

― m coleman, Tuesday, 8 May 2007 14:05 (eighteen years ago)

Working Week cheated by using proper jazzers to do the hard bits anyway

― Tom D., Tuesday, 8 May 2007 14:06 (eighteen years ago)

When Working Week were Weekend (and on Rough Trade) they were pretty good, though they actually had to draft in Proper Jazzers to make it work (partial Tom D xpost).

― Marcello Carlin, Tuesday, 8 May 2007 14:06 (eighteen years ago)

Vic Godard!

― Tom D., Tuesday, 8 May 2007 14:08 (eighteen years ago)

Backed by those highly-rated jazzers who later went on to become JoBoxers.

― Marcello Carlin, Tuesday, 8 May 2007 14:11 (eighteen years ago)

how about the Necks?...I'm not sure if they are a jazzy rock *combo* (to use my dad's term) or the other way around...

I remember thinking that the first Moonshake LP post-Margaret Fiedler was jazzy, because it had lots of squonking sax...

― henry s, Tuesday, 8 May 2007 14:12 (eighteen years ago)

Well that was Terry Edwards who's sort of a law unto himself and doesn't really count.

― Marcello Carlin, Tuesday, 8 May 2007 14:13 (eighteen years ago)

"MC5 and the Stooges did "cover versions" of Sun Ra and Pharoah Sanders"

As did Yo La Tengo.

From the other way, folks like the Bad Plus and Chicago Underground Duo/Trio/whatever, along with the Flying Luttenbachers...

― I eat cannibals, Tuesday, 8 May 2007 14:15 (eighteen years ago)

Tied + Tickled OTM (although I'd probably just call them jazz or electronic before indie)

― Jordan, Tuesday, 8 May 2007 14:15 (eighteen years ago)

stirmonster played Blurt out last year at plastic people. it was good

― 600, Tuesday, 8 May 2007 14:16 (eighteen years ago)

Hmmm.

I think I'm looking for ways into jazz for a friend of mine who thinks that jazz is a hideous indulgent honking mess, but who likes Guillemots.

― Scik Mouthy, Tuesday, 8 May 2007 14:37 (eighteen years ago)

Even though Guillemots are themselves a hideous indulgent honking mess?

*ducks*

Needs to listen to my favoured Canadian diet of Broken Social Scene and their various spinoffs; improv approach and ethic but utterly approachable and accessible music. Then hit them with Wyatt-era Soft Machine and work outwards from there.

― Marcello Carlin, Tuesday, 8 May 2007 14:40 (eighteen years ago)

Cap'n Jazz, they have the word "jazz" in their name.

― Dom Passantino, Tuesday, 8 May 2007 14:45 (eighteen years ago)

Which reminds me - THE JAZZ INSECTS!

― Marcello Carlin, Tuesday, 8 May 2007 14:46 (eighteen years ago)

Bonzos!

― Tom D., Tuesday, 8 May 2007 14:47 (eighteen years ago)

Not indie.

― Marcello Carlin, Tuesday, 8 May 2007 14:49 (eighteen years ago)

But yes - "Eleven Moustachioed Daughters" shames the competition even now.

― Marcello Carlin, Tuesday, 8 May 2007 14:50 (eighteen years ago)

If "jazz ideas" can be taken to mean maj-7th chords and bossanova rhythms, then surely folks like the Sea and Cake count here.

― jaymc, Tuesday, 8 May 2007 14:51 (eighteen years ago)

Everything But the Girl
The Aluminum Group
Azita
Combustible Edison
The Legendary Jim Ruiz Group

― jaymc, Tuesday, 8 May 2007 14:55 (eighteen years ago)

If "jazz ideas" can be taken to mean maj-7th chords and bossanova rhythms
I hope not

― James Redd and the Blecchs, Tuesday, 8 May 2007 15:05 (eighteen years ago)

Minutemen
Sun City Girls
Cul De Sac

― Jon Lewis, Tuesday, 8 May 2007 15:10 (eighteen years ago)

Black Flag
The Minutemen
Descendents
most of SST records

― Steve Shasta, Tuesday, 8 May 2007 15:12 (eighteen years ago)

Where do you hear jazz in Descendents records?

― DJ Mencap, Tuesday, 8 May 2007 15:16 (eighteen years ago)

xhuxk eddy to thread!

― James Redd and the Blecchs, Tuesday, 8 May 2007 15:17 (eighteen years ago)

Oh, Christ, don't ever recommend Combustible Edison to anyone for any reason. Might as well tell 'em Soul Coughing while you're at it.

Though The Lounge Lizards might fit the criteria.

― I eat cannibals, Tuesday, 8 May 2007 15:19 (eighteen years ago)

Kevin Martin to thread...

― henry s, Tuesday, 8 May 2007 15:23 (eighteen years ago)

I like both Combustible Edison and Soul Coughing, to a certain point.

And Ken, why do you hope not?

― jaymc, Tuesday, 8 May 2007 15:26 (eighteen years ago)

Happy Apple and The Bad Plus are indie dudes that ended up being actual jazz

― M@tt He1ges0n, Tuesday, 8 May 2007 15:26 (eighteen years ago)

Results 1 - 10 of about 144 for "jazz-inflected" "sea and cake". (0.19 seconds)

― jaymc, Tuesday, 8 May 2007 15:27 (eighteen years ago)

elephant in the room: JAM BANDS

― Johnny Hotcox, Wednesday, 9 May 2007 00:06 (eighteen years ago)

Swans Way and Carmel and that bunch in and around "Absolute Beginners" were totally indie

― Morley Timmons, Wednesday, 9 May 2007 00:09 (eighteen years ago)

Jam Bands are indie music in the same way that Furries are indie comix. You just have to look away to be able to soldier on.

(xpost to hotcox)

― Jon Lewis, Wednesday, 9 May 2007 00:14 (eighteen years ago)

Stump?

― everything, Wednesday, 9 May 2007 00:22 (eighteen years ago)

Where do you hear jazz in Descendents records?

-- DJ Mencap, Tuesday, May 8, 2007 8:16 AM (9 hours ago)

"Theme"
"Impressions"
"All-O-Gistics"

etc.

― Steve Shasta, Wednesday, 9 May 2007 00:23 (eighteen years ago)

I know Steve said "most of SST Records" above, but I really want to say October Faction and I'm not gonna let that pre-empt me.

― Jon Lewis, Wednesday, 9 May 2007 00:43 (eighteen years ago)

You might as well ask, "What polka bands have successfully interpolated hip-hop ideas and / or techniques into their music?"

If you're buying into being "indie", it's likely going to preclude successfully bringing jazz elements into your conception (leaving aside the fact that the word "jazz" is vague as fuck after 90 years of recorded history). Rip Rig & Panic, in retrospect, sucked. They talked a good game, but that was it, aside from Mark Springer's piano chops. I ended up buying Rahsaan's Rip Rig & Panic and enjoying that 1000x more.

If you're buying into being "indie", then maybe that precludes looking into non-indie exemplars of improvisation in rock -- Mahavishnu, Television (live especially), Soft Machine (as Marcello brought up upthread), King Crimson, Grateful Dead, Allan Holdsworth, the Allmans, yadda yadda...

― mark 0, Wednesday, 9 May 2007 01:08 (eighteen years ago)

Does Elvis Costello count as indie?

― Geir Hongro, Wednesday, 9 May 2007 01:31 (eighteen years ago)

Joe Henry (His three most recent records especially)
Kay Dot
Arto Lindsay
Certain "noise jazz-y" moments from Old Time Relijun
Dismemberment Plan - Change

― Cliftonb, Wednesday, 9 May 2007 01:57 (eighteen years ago)

"We're Christians, and we'd like to buy our daughter a CD for her birthday. Is there a Christian artist who's trying to sound like Animal Collective?"

― mark 0, Wednesday, 9 May 2007 02:16 (eighteen years ago)

Rip, Rig & Panic were great. Dislocation Dance did a fair bit of jazzy stuff as well. James Blood Ulmer was on Rough Trade! Sun Ra was on Y Records!

― deedeedeextrovert, Wednesday, 9 May 2007 02:17 (eighteen years ago)

From the other way, folks like the Bad Plus and Chicago Underground Duo/Trio/whatever, along with the Flying Luttenbachers...

i can definitely see the latter two, but the bad plus? aren't they pretty much the vanilla ice of the 00s? without the kitschy entertainment value, i mean.

― Lawrence the Looter, Wednesday, 9 May 2007 02:34 (eighteen years ago)

laughing clowns.

― haitch, Wednesday, 9 May 2007 03:12 (eighteen years ago)

I'm glad I'm not the only person who finds the Bad Plus to be cornball bullshit

― Hurting 2, Wednesday, 9 May 2007 03:58 (eighteen years ago)

shudder to think
nels cline

― 6335, Wednesday, 9 May 2007 04:23 (eighteen years ago)

helmet

i seem to remember page hamilton saying something about trying to channel john coltrane in his guitar solos

― 6335, Wednesday, 9 May 2007 04:27 (eighteen years ago)

those yo la tengo w/ free-jazz tracks are pretty interesting in so far as neither side seems constrained by anything but their desire to make those tracks... ?

― Zoilus, Wednesday, 9 May 2007 04:48 (eighteen years ago)

I second Laughing Clowns.

― mrlynch, Wednesday, 9 May 2007 05:15 (eighteen years ago)

and: Lucky Dinosaurs

― mrlynch, Wednesday, 9 May 2007 05:16 (eighteen years ago)

i was gonna say happy apple but matt beat me to it

― river wolf, Wednesday, 9 May 2007 05:21 (eighteen years ago)

I'm glad I'm not the only person who finds the Bad Plus to be cornball bullshit

Cornball or not, they've at least got the Stanley Crouch Seal of Approval (FWIW), and they've shown in their blog to be unafraid of jazz, unlike this "I like my jazz neutered and superficial" vibe I get from this thread. It's an old story: Archie Shepp and Pharoah Sanders failed, decades ago, to retain their hipster audience once they switched to playing bebop/ballads/blues full time.

Squirrel Nut Zippers >>> the vast majority of the suggestions on this laundry list

― mark 0, Wednesday, 9 May 2007 11:14 (eighteen years ago)

The Bad Plus have their issues - I'm not into the clattery free stuff and I can see how their pop covers could be hateable, but they've done some great tracks too (Big Eater, Flim, the drum & bass one on the second record, a few others). And you ain't going to find a better drummer anywhere, for real.

That said they put out a new record yesterday and I'm not all that excited about it.

― Jordan, Wednesday, 9 May 2007 12:54 (eighteen years ago)

And their blog is gr8.

― Jordan, Wednesday, 9 May 2007 12:55 (eighteen years ago)

Another SST band, Universal Congress Of (with Joe Baiza from Saccharine Trust) put out some decent jazz rock. Check out their cover of James Blood Ulmer's "High Time"

― todd, Wednesday, 9 May 2007 14:42 (eighteen years ago)

andy partridge has a new sorta free jazz album i guess. i read about it on pitchfork.

― M@tt He1ges0n, Wednesday, 9 May 2007 15:06 (eighteen years ago)

"i can definitely see the latter two, but the bad plus? aren't they pretty much the vanilla ice of the 00s? without the kitschy entertainment value, i mean."

Didn't say they were great, just that they were indie kids trying to be jazz...

Speaking of which, no one's mentioned Birdsongs of the Mesozoic, or the Space Negros...

― I eat cannibals, Wednesday, 9 May 2007 15:15 (eighteen years ago)

Bad Plus are jazz dudes trying to be indie.

― Jordan, Wednesday, 9 May 2007 15:28 (eighteen years ago)

Bad Plus are jazz dudes trying to be indie.

-- Jordan, Wednesday, May 9, 2007 10:28 AM (38 seconds ago

playing in 12 Rods=yr indie 4 lyfe.

― M@tt He1ges0n, Wednesday, 9 May 2007 15:30 (eighteen years ago)

You're right, Dave King is from both worlds for sure. I'm thinking more about Iverson & Reid Anderson.

― Jordan, Wednesday, 9 May 2007 15:34 (eighteen years ago)

i think both those dudes are more jazz, but i'm fairly sure they do rock band stuff too.

king has done so much stuff you can't really pin him down...one of the happy apple dudes also does a doom metal band.

― M@tt He1ges0n, Wednesday, 9 May 2007 15:56 (eighteen years ago)

What about Tortoise and all that mob

I'm not too up on all of that scene, but it's always struck me as more of indie kids trying to be fusion - or maybe indie kids trying to be Miles Davis (electric period).

Some of the Sonic Youth members play in jazz-related side projects, though not too much under the name Sonic Youth.

I guess the more avant-garde end of jazz is sometimes hard to distinguish from experimental rock or just experimental music - and there's probably some cross-over there from the more experimental indie bands - for instance, bands like I Heart Lung. It's more rare I think to see indie bands attempting to play more mainstream jazz.

I don't think it's quite right to call Nels Cline an indie kid trying to be jazz, since he's been straddling the line for a while now.

― o. nate, Wednesday, 9 May 2007 19:36 (eighteen years ago)

i wouldn't call nels cline that either, o. nate...but i think he fits in this thread somehow. anyone heard that album him and gregg bendian did called 'interstellar space revisited'?

― 6335, Wednesday, 9 May 2007 19:44 (eighteen years ago)

The Thing is sorta rock/jazz or a jazz group doing kinda rock.

― M@tt He1ges0n, Wednesday, 9 May 2007 19:49 (eighteen years ago)

Medeski Martin and Wood could almost be called indie dudes, I think. John Medeski at least has dabbled in the rock and roll.

― nickalicious, Wednesday, 9 May 2007 19:50 (eighteen years ago)

Benevento/Russo Duo tour like an indie band but jam like a jazz band.

― nickalicious, Wednesday, 9 May 2007 19:51 (eighteen years ago)

What about Ninja Tooney stuff like Cinematic Orchestra and Kid Koala?

(nb I don't really know what the point of this thread is)

― Jordan, Wednesday, 9 May 2007 19:53 (eighteen years ago)

anyone heard that album him and gregg bendian did called 'interstellar space revisited'?

I haven't heard the album, but I saw them perform it at Tonic - I guess it was a few years back now. It was pretty good, though perhaps a bit monotonous - I think I prefer him with the Trio or one of his other bands, like the Nels Cline Singers. The drummer he plays with now, Scott Amendola, is pretty great. I'd recommend the Scott Amendola Band's Believe, featuring Nels and Jeff Parker (of Tortoise) on guitars. It's a bit more mellow than Interstellar Space - there's a bit more space in the tunes (space as in room for the musicians to stretch out, not space of the interstellar variety).

― o. nate, Wednesday, 9 May 2007 19:56 (eighteen years ago)

And you ain't going to find a better drummer anywhere, for real.

dave king is fucking siiiiiiiiiiiick

― river wolf, Wednesday, 9 May 2007 20:17 (eighteen years ago)

wow, i wish i had seen that. i haven't heard that scott amendola band album, thanks for the recommend. i do like me some jeff parker, as well.
xpost

― 6335, Wednesday, 9 May 2007 21:05 (eighteen years ago)

Sondre Lerche, innit?

― St3ve Go1db3rg, Wednesday, 9 May 2007 23:13 (eighteen years ago)

as far as dudes coming from the other way around, i.e jazz to 'indie,' how about shining? and a lot of rune grammofon for that matter. ecm via a sort of indie sensibility anyway.

also, i feel like a lot of the tim berne screwgun stuff, especially the bloodcount albums from the late nineties, overtly embraced the indie aesthetic of the time (at least in terms of packaging and image, not musically). in a lot of ways i feel like it was sort of a new and interesting swing at presenting fairly difficuly jazz-based music in a kind of indie, cool guy way. one that i don't think too many people picked up on or went for ulitmately. but I love that stuff.

― cunard, Wednesday, 9 May 2007 23:46 (eighteen years ago)

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