The Eleventh P&J Albums (and EPs) Poll!

A close call between Thriller, Legendary Hearts, and Murmur. Went with Murmur cuz it's the last time I would have voted for R.E.M.

this seems to be a particularly bloke-heavy list, even more so than usual.

Legendary Hearts and High Land, Hard Rain would have been my choices then, but I'd have to go with Field Day now.

Not as good a year as '82 or espeically '84. I chose Murmur by a hair over Lou Reed and X.

are you sure you didn't accidentally cut and paste a poll from musician magazine? what a blah list.

it's easier to recall now why chuck's printed comments had such an effect at the time... seriously, i don't remember this going off the rails so badly and so soon. i like a few albums up there, but i could live without almost every single one of them.

The only time I ever see T-Bone Burnett or Kid Creole and the Coconuts mentioned is in rock critic talk. I've always found both names really off-putting.

Richard Thompson: Hand of Kindness (Hannibal)
Bob Dylan: Infidels (Columbia)
Elvis Costello: Punch the Clock

What sorry inclusions!

if you cancel out thriller and 1999 for second-time-around votes, all that's left in my opinion are very good (and very underrated) Culture Club & Kid Creole albums, half an (also underrated) Elvis Costello album, an R.E.M. album that's probably great but which never had a huge impact on me--and that's it.

x-post on kid creole and elvis costello...those are good albums!

Yeah, 1983 does seem pretty weak in retrospect; note how many '82 repeats are on that list.

xp

Agreed on the KC and EC.

83 feels like a transitional year, from postpunk/late disco to new pop

Punch the Clock has four good songs, lots of busy horn charts, and too much Elvis braying.

Yeah, 1983 does seem pretty weak in retrospect; note how many '82 repeats are on that list

Avalon made Christgau's list!

Punch the Clock is a great album, probably Elvis' shining moment.

I am the only person who has this opinion.

you and Greil Marcus!

O NOES

Nile Rodgers: Adventures in the Land of the Good Groove (Mirage)

¿Que?

Not a lot of staying pwer on that list up there, is there? 20 years ago, the Tom Waits and X and Replacements and Violent Femmes LPs were among my favourites; now I'm almost totally indifferent to 'em all. (The real action was on the singles charts.) I'm not gonna vote for 1999 twice, so I guess it's gotta be Minutemen, with very outside chances for Ulmer, MJ and Eddy Grant.

I regret that I've never properly investigated Kid Creole.

Odyssey, people. Odyssey.

I went with Field Day, a huge favorite of mine in high school that I haven't played in forever. (Come on, Rhino, reissue the sucker!)

Linda Ronstadt: What's New

What on EARTH were the old-timers thinking???

Thriller is officially a 1982 release, right? But it's spiritually 1983 so it gets my vote despite the two or three crap cuts. I'm considering buying a couple million copies of it tonight so it reclaims best selling album of all-time status over that Eagles greatest hits.

P.S. That Nile Rodgers record holds its own against minor Chic which is pretty major compared to most music.

P.P.S. Please investigate Kid Creole and all his crazy offshoots even though every single one of albums is a mess. That was the 1980s.

How easy is it to find a used copy of the Nile album?

Matos: it's not Rhino but it sounds really good!

http://www.amazon.com/Field-Day-Marshall-Crenshaw/dp/B000AP302U/ref=pd_bbs_sr_1/103-7920397-0309469?ie=UTF8&s=music&qid=1181076794&sr=1-1

Odyssey, since my other choice, MJ, will get tons of votes.

How easy is it to find a used copy of the Nile album?

Apparently, not too easy. According to Amazon, it's not on CD. I don't see it around too often on vinyl either.

Automatic thread bump. This poll is closing tomorrow.

ILX System OTM.

Ha! Thriller, then Randy Newman, and I really need to hear DFX2 some time. Anybody know what they're all about?

Having already voted for Thriller in 1982, I selected a sentimental favorite of mine by DFX2 over another sentimental favorite of mine by Trio. Also rans: Blood Ulmer, Minor Threat, Jason and the Scorchers, X, Blasters (the last two of which I actually voted for in the year this came out, along with Richard Thompson and Nile Rodgers and Was [Not Was] and the Rolling Stones and others not on the list.) (Personally can't think of any Chic albums that the Nile Rodgers LP is better than, though. It definitely can't touch Take It Off or Real People or the first three. Did they put out any other ones?)

Also, I happen to be mentioned in Christgau's essay.

XGAU on DFX2, FYI:

DFX2
Emotion [MCA EP, 1983] A
Consumer Guide Reviews:
Emotion [MCA EP, 1983]
From a label that has never before issued an EP, a San Diego quartet who sound like the Stones--despite hints of Lou and Ig, the Some Girls Stones, irreverently bluesy as personal style and personal commitment, an odd an apt effect in a teenaged band for whom Now! and even Exile are artifacts. Less ironic, and funnier, than the originals, so that titles like "Emotion" and "No Dough" mean what they say, they're rock-is-lifers--not immune to sexism, with all the usual retrograde attitudes. And believe it or not they do it do it do it do it, which makes the attitudes seem somehow worthwhile, just like always. Let's hope they grow up right. A

Well, I've got that! (Thanks though.) Does anyone have personal anecdotes about seeing them rock the fuckin' Bowery or whatnot?

I still don't get The Blasters after quite a few tries. It just so blandly bar bandy. What AM I missing?

An appreciation for bar bands, no doubt (just like all the nitwits who make the same complaint about the Hold Steady these days.)

Seriously, though, on Nonfiction it's like their songwriting was channeling Tom T. Hall half the time. (Start with "Bus Station At Midnight," I think.) And the singing could be really lovely, as well. Plus, for that album and the one before it, as bar bands go, they were commendably eclectic (rockabilly, New Orleans r&b, honky-tonk, Tex-Mex, etc.) Definitely less bland (less stodgy vocals, more coherent lyrics, etc.) than Los Lobos would ever manage. Which isn't to say that, deep down, they weren't a bland bar band. Just that, for a couple albums, they were a pretty darn good one.

No Aztec Camera

(Shakes head) Americans!

Open your eyes, Geir.

Aztec Camera: High Land, Hard Rain (Sire)

(stops shaking head) Norwegians!

I'm surprised by how little of this list I know. The only two albums on here that I own are Thriller and More Fun in the New World, though I'm sure I've heard a few others. I'm going with Thriller.

I may have given More Fun... a second listen had it not been for that awful song about how MTV prefers English New Pop to American roots-rock.

That's my favorite song on the album. I liked the way it threw together a lot of different complaints, from their take on radio programming to what the US was doing in Central America at the time. But I also think that musically, it's the strongest song on there. It's not a great album though. I gave it many chances, but X drops off at that point and never recovers, at least as a band recording new material. (I never did see them perform live, though I saw a lackluster solo Exene show in the early 90s.)

I'm willing to accept that there's more honest worrying about the future (i.e. X's future) in "I Must Not Think Bad Thoughts" than aesthetic conservatism (their next record* proved they were right to worry), but I'm always surprised that THEY were surprised that Boy George played better on MTV.

* "4th of July" was used quite effectively over the end credits of a "Sopranos" episode last season.

I like the slow burn quality to "I Must Not Think Bad Thoughts," the way the tension gradually builds. (I don't like it so much that I can't easily imagine someone not liking it, plus I can easily imagine someone finding that singing about war and singing about not hearing American hardcore bands on the radio, in the same breath, might seem to trivialize large-scale slaughter.)

I can't stand people who bitch and whine was always a favorite line too (especially given the tone in which it is sung).

yeah but that was the whole point of the song, they were whining but they also realized how stupid it was to whine about it, but they also couldn't help it, it's like the way we all live our lives

love that song, that album, that band. also, 'aint love grand' is underrated but still kinda crappy, almost ran away with a hot record store clerk to that cassette

But there's something inexplicably ugly sounding about the whole album

(x-post: meaning More Fun. . .)

I always thought that X could have made it on commercial rock radio, but I was probably wrong. I guess they were just that little bit too different or something.

"True Love, Pt. 2" is pretty good.

I still like the X record, just not as much as the first three. "I Must Not Think Bad Thoughts" is endearing in its absurdity, not unlike several songs by the British haircut glitter disco synthesizer nightschool noble savage drum drum drum bands it complains about. It reads much stodgier than it sounds. But after this album, the only thing I love by X is "4th of July" (one of their best songs.) I need to hear *Aint Love Grand* again one of these days, though; that was their half-assed metal move, right? I have a feeling I might like it now. (And what about their "Wild Thing" cover? I should go back and check that out too. But not the Knitters, or John Doe's boring solo career.) (Did DJ Bonebrake or Billy Zoom ever have solo careers? Those might have been good, if they did!) (And how come no DJs ever stole DJ Bonebrake's name?)

Anyway, can we talk about the weirdness of Trio making the Pazz & Jop album list now? That is so wacky! I can't think of any real precedent, before or since. It's not like Falco or Nena or Lady Pank ever did anywhere near that well. Though I guess Les Rita Mitsouko scored on the video ballot list once.)

I need to hear *Aint Love Grand* again one of these days, though; that was their half-assed metal move, right?
"Burning House of Love" was their lame attempt to get some Motley Crüe bread.

Having just listened to it on my lunch break, I go back to my old opinion, which is that it's not all bad, just not nearly as good as the first three. (At the time it even seemed sort of promising: they were at least trying some things that sounded new.) One thing I think I notice about it is that because of the way the songs are sung, the wordplay draws more attention to itself than it did on the earlier albums, too much attention to itself, actually. Maybe it's just the tempo of the songs? More slow songs, so more time to think about puns which don't stand up under that much scrutiny ("Roses are red/Violence is too"--at least I think that's what it says).

xp: And "Girls Girls Girls" was Motley Crue's lame attempt to get some X bread!!

" AT THE HI-D-HI
& THE HULA GAL
BEE-HIVE BAR AND
THE ZIRCON LOUNGE
G.G.'S COZY CORNER &
THE GIFT OF LOVE
STOP N' DRINK, SIT N' SIP, REST N' PIECES
DEXTER'S NEW APPROACH
& THE GET DOWN LOUNGE
THE AORTA BAR, DETROIT'S MAIN VEIN"

-- X, "The Have Nots"

"At the Dollhouse in Ft. Lauderdale
Girls, Girls. Girls
Rocking in Atlanta at Tattletails
Girls, Girls, Girls
Raising Hell at the 7th Veil"

-- Motley Crue, "Girls Girls Girls"

I guess we're all in agreement that More Fun in the New World was a bit of a dip in quality then. I still like "Must not Think Bad Thoughts", even if the sentiments are questionable. The music totally carries it.

I am not in agreement with that statement, no. I love that record just as much as Under the Big Black Sun and more than the debut. Pretty hard to touch Wild Gift though.

Agreed about Wild Gift.

plus I can easily imagine someone finding that singing about war and singing about not hearing American hardcore bands on the radio, in the same breath, might seem to trivialize large-scale slaughter

Or the opposite: it attaches a significance to the music they love. I have no issue with that.

I like the music in "I Must Not Think Bad Thoughts" a lot (which lyrically comes from a similar place as the Smiths' "Panic," no?), but I've long wondered if they didn't just hire Joe Carducci to write the lyrics, you know, considering he wrote almost an entire book about the same thing.

Also, did Woody Guthrie really sing about beets? (Did his own music really have b-e-a-t-s to write about?)

"Talking Columbia" and "Talking Dust Blues" were rap songs, Scott! Woody was rhythmically astute -- "Subterranean Homesick Blues" took a lot from him. The tractor came and took his homeboys!

But nah, I don't know about the b-e-e-t-s.

I do know that the Beets on the Nickelodeon cartoon *Doug* sang about b-e-e-t-s, though.

Trio making the Pazz & Jop album list now? That is so wacky! I can't think of any real precedent, before or since.

Though Rammstein's "Du Hast" (which lyrically comes from the same place as "Da Da Da," honest!) later scored on the singles list, I believe. Unless it didn't.

But still, the Trio is especially weird because it's an album. I was struck by that one yesterday as well (at first I thought it might be that Dolly/Emmylou/Linda LP, but that was much later).

One last thing I can think to say about this list: much as I've said how boring it is, I don't mind the wimpy new wave bent of it in a way, the Bluebells (really loved the song "Cath"), Let's Active (who I'd like to hear again--I swear I don't remember anything by them), Aztec Camera, R.E.M., of course, and maybe--don't know this one at all--the Bongos? There's a sort of interesting conglomeration of this stuff, though maybe that's true of a lot of P&J years.

Don't know if I'm ready to revisit my Blasters/Los Lobos past just yet, though--I was huge on that stuff for a couple years.

"Du Hast" (which lyrically comes from the same place as "Da Da Da," honest!)

Heh--just got this.

Were critics really so fond of Speaking in Tongues? I always thought they defended it cuz there was residual Tom Tom Club/Remain in Light love. It's like their fourth or fifth best album.

I think at the time they were. It was probably the album that really broke them to a wider audience--at least that's what I seem to recall. Remain in Light was big, but I'm willing to bet that Speaking in Tongues sold in far greater numbers. Also, "Burning Down the House" got a lot of airplay, especially on video channels.

For me, at the time, SIT was initially amazing, but I grew out of it much quicker than the previous albums. But I'm guessing--and only guessing--that the critical response was initially fairly ecstatic. I don't think there was too much of a "residual" effect at that point.

(Or maybe what I've just described is in part a residual effect... I'm just saying that it seemed like it was genuinely well-liked on its own merits at the time.)

it was like 'wow talking heads are finally having fun yay'

YEah, that sounds right to me too.

That may be right. I sort of remember dancing more to Burning Down the House, but then I dance to Remain in Light too. Mostly by myself. Sometimes at parties, by myself.

I remember someone saying something to me like: "I don't know how to dance to that modern music."

But that was for Remain in Light, maybe.

SIT was the first one I owned too, but the song about moon rocks, "Pull Up the Roots" and the other one about outer space were limp then. Once I heard the versions of the others on Stop Making Sense, SIT was redundant.

I just reread the review in Rolling Stone; Dimension 5ive's right (their "party album").

David Fricke: "Imbued with an adventurous spirit that's as close to Television's Marquee Moon as it is to Michael Jackson's Thriller, Grand Master Flash's "The Message" and Nigerian high-life music, Speaking in Tongues gives new meaning to the word crossover."

don't know this one at all--the Bongos?

Ha ha, I never heard them until this week, when their '81 album Drums Along the Hudson was reissued. I've actually been talking about it a little on the rolling metal thread this week, though they have very little do with metal, and more to do with being post-Pylon and proto-REM and covering T. Rex. Hoboken jangle-pop, but with definite noble savage drum drum drum underneath. I'm actually liking it more than more I listen. Never heard the EP, though.

Speaking in Tongues (which I liked okay at the time, but I swear my own liking if nobody else's was mostly residual, and I haven't listened to the thing in decades) peaked at # 15 in Billboard; noble savage drum drum drum concept album Remain in Light went to #19. And "Burning Down the House" was a top 10 hit, wow, that's a surprise! Their biggest hit in the States by far, apparently -- "Take Me To the River" and "Wild Wild Life" both peaked in the mid 20s.

liking it more the more I listen, I mean

my favorite part of speaking in tongues remains the lyrics, best byrne ever managed except for the ones in the catherine wheel.

A bit of an off year for a lot of artists. I'm going to see The Police at Wrigley Field and was listening to everything but Synchronicity. I got so sick of that album I haven't heard it in 20 years and still don't want to.

Here's a few interesting underrated albums from that year:

Orchestral Manoevres In The Dark * Dazzle Ships
Kip Hanrahan * Desire Develops An Edge
The Chameleons * Script of the Bridge

Automatic thread bump. This poll's results are now in.

re: Heads--come on, Little Creatures WON in '85 FFS. critics in the '80s = suckers for Talking Heads (and solo). (as am I to some degree, though I never play anything past RIL for pleasure anymore)

A joint winner then, and I guess I was the only Computer Games voter. Where were you Shakey Mo? I love that Replacements album though, surprised it got the same amount as Thriller (and album I've not played in a looong time)

I thought someone on ILM would've voted Culture Club.

I thought I'd voted for George Clinton but it turns out I already voted for Violent Femmes!

But not the Knitters, or John Doe's boring solo career.) (Did DJ Bonebrake or Billy Zoom ever have solo careers? Those might have been good, if they did!)

the knitters' poor lil' critter in the road is a great album! it's largely responsible, along with dwight yoakam's first ep and album and the merle haggard 2-LP comp that i have no idea why i bought but that i instantly fell in love with, for getting me into country music.

dj bonebrake has went on to drum for a bunch of middling people like michael penn.

billy zoom went on to a successful career repairing and modifying guitar amps.

the Bongos?

they were a big deal around the northeast at the time. richard barone eventually turned into a boring adult pop dude, but for a short while in the bongos, he really had it going on. another bongo, james mastro, ran an excellent guitar shop in hoboken for many years, and maybe still does.

No love for the Blasters? Makes me kinda wish I had voted for Non Fiction.

I thought someone on ILM would've voted Culture Club.

I would've. In 1983. :)

XGAU'S EP LIST:

Yay for Hilary! (And okay, Husker Du and the Butthole Surfers.) But who were Cool It Reba?

EPs

Husker Du: Metal Circus (SST)
DFX2: Emotion (MCA)
Jason and the Scorchers: Fervor (Praxis)
Minutemen: Buzz or Howl Under the Influence of Heat (SST)
The Cucumbers: The Cucumbers (Fake Doom)
Los Lobos: . . . And a Time To Dance (Slash)
Butthole Surfers: Butthole Surfers (Alternative Tentacles)
The Bluebells: The Bluebells (Sire)
Hilary: Kinetic (Backstreet)
Cool It Reba: Money Fall Out the Sky (Hannibal)

Also, his album list reminds me that somebody really should mention Debarge on this thread. So I will.

Bless you for that! In A Special Way is my second fave album of all-time.

billy zoom went on to a successful career repairing and modifying guitar amps.

This sounds like a dis even though I'm sure it wasn't.