Sonic Youth vs Pet Shop Boys

PSBs for sure, even though SY have whole albums I can listen to front to back and I only own Pop Art by the PSBs, but I listen to it all the time whereas the Yoof aren't even in my iPod.

I just watched "1991: The Year Punk Broke" on Youtube in it's entirety and Thurston Moore will never be cool to me again. Pet Shop Boys by default.

Neil Tennant is about my last pop hero, and I listen to their records all the time. Sonic Youth I just admire really. Good comparisons though!

Love them both to death. Rather Ripped vs Fundamental might have been a more fair question -- both different takes on being middle aged, paunchy, when love and politics aren't as simple as they used to be.

I only have Discography by the Pet Shop Boys, but listen to that all the time. Sonic Youth are one of those "worthy" groups that I almost never listen to anymore. As I get older rock's rich tapestry gets more and more frayed. Come to think of it, Discography might the closest anyone's ever come to compiling the perfect CD.

I've never heard anything by Sonic Youth, but synths always win guitars, so it's Pet Shop Boys.

I have to admire SY for finally turning in a terrific album last year, but, the odd track aside, they've been a fairly arid proposition throughout their career.

PSBs are practically perfect from West End Girls until the mid-nineties, and still pretty damn great thereafter. Few others have been able to couple the personal and the political, soundtrack a precise moment, and to sound so huge and vital all at the same time - in this respect I'd say they're up with Smokey, The Temptations (Whitfield-era), Rolling Stones (1968-71), Ziggy-era Bowie, ABC (Lexicon & Beauty Stab), The Smiths, New Order from Temptation to True Faith.

Without having spent a lot of time (in some cases no time at all) with their recent albums, I have a feeling Sonic Youth are growing old a little more interestingly. But I continue to listen to the Pet Shop Boys way more often, and this is a Taking Sides between one of my three favourite groups of all-time vs. a group I just happen to like a bunch of songs by. But great comparison--makes a hell of a lot of sense.

sonic youth are in my musical blind spot. PSBs are burnt on my retina.

love em both equally, hear them as complements not competitors.

by the way, somewhere in a stash of files i have a page from Select magazine, wherein Thurston and Lee (I think) are doing blindfold reviews of that month's singles, and the Pet Shop Boys "Truck Driver and his Mate" comes up. The level of disgust they expressed towards the song and to the PSB in general kind of surprised me at the time, though Thurston did throw in one qualifying statement, something to the effect that he admired how they were fans who grew up making the sorts of records they were fans of (it sounded like he was talking about SY also).

no surpize there

I'd expect Neil & Chris to turn their noses up @ noisy SY b-side 2

A Neil Tennant "Invisible Jukebox" in the Wire would be awesome!

Yeah, I wish!

I have this feeling that Neil and Chris (er, let's say Neil) would be somewhat more charitable towards Sonic Youth, but that's just a guess. (Something to do with disco inclusiveness vs. punk exclusivity.)

I almost hurled my breakfast reading that tidbit, Scott. Coming from Moore and Ranaldo, that's a bunch of bullshit – this from the guys who covered "Into the Groove" and "Addicted to Love."

v badly in both cases

Hooray, I just found the item. (I had the song only partially right.)

[in progress, after Lee & Thurston have discussed records by Smashing Pumpkins, Super Furry Animals, Babylon Zoo, Sleeper, et al.]

"A drastic shift in pace arrives by order of the Pet Shop Boys 'Before.' Thurston kills it after just 20 seconds. 'That was positively evil. Aren't Pet Shop Boys journalist rock? He made records he wanted to hear which is commendable, in a way... but they totally gross me out. That song was extra sick.'

'Totally,' agrees Lee. 'But I kinda wanted to hear "The Truck Driver and His Mate"'..."

They sound like complete assholes to me, but whatever. Probably to be expected.

"Before" is a pretty bad song though! Lee is right - "Truck Driver" is loads better.

I like 'Before' but not as much as I would like a hyper-gay-piano-house remix of it.

can u imagine neil sitting thru more than 20 sec of kim gordon vox?

yeah, good point, esp. if it was one of her screamy songs. (i imagine he might be ok with her more arty-whispery things.)

ooh they both made films in the late 80s and they tied for 16th place on the 1986 pazz and jop singles poll:
16. Bangles: "Walk Like An Egyptian" (Columbia) 18
Ciccone Youth: "Into the Groovey"/"Burnin' Up"/"Tuff Titty Rap" (New Alliance/Blast First import) 18 *
Pet Shop Boys: "West End Girls" (EMI America) 18
Timex Social Club: "Rumours"/"Vicious Rumours" (Danya)

Huge SY fan in the 80's, hated PSB at the time. Have reached a point of relative indifference to both since.

FWIW I would like to hear PSB cover SY, but can't see it working the other way around.

Heh, that'd be good indeed. The mind boggles at the possibilities: Hi-NRG version of "Teenage Riot"?

I can almost hear Tennant gravely intoning 'Society is a hole . . "

Sonic Youth have always bored me shitless so PSB win without even thinking about it.

Or replace Chuck D with Neil on "Kool Thing" ("Yes. Tell it like it is. Yes.")

"Schizophrenia" would be nice, too ("His sister came over..."), maybe as a medley with "Catholic Block."

(By the way, did anyone mention Catholicism as a connecting theme?)

"It's a Sin" is way too didactic for SY though.

I can also hear Neil sing "Kissability."

I've never heard anything by Sonic Youth, but synths always win guitars, so it's Pet Shop Boys.

-- Tuomas,

I was going to ask if you were really The Lex, but of course even he likes Sonic Youth.

PSB covering the entirety of Sister would probably ammount to their best record since Very.

xp

Sonic Youth win because of this

Well, I've a hard time imagining Neil bellowing "I got a Catholic block/do you like to fuck?" He'd probably change the lyrics to "I got a Catholic block/that boys like to mock" or something.

The Pet Shop Boys are here?! In Ramsey Street?!

I've come to appreciate some PSB stuff. Still, SY, on a very immediate and intuitive level. Don't really see why disliking a Pet Shop Boys song is bullshit or makes them assholes.

(I've no doubt, however, that whatever the PSB put out most recently is better than Rather Ripped.)

http://www.losanjealous.com/wp-content/uploads/2006/09/sonicyouth.jpg

look kim gordon is tall!

okay I am insane now, Herman

The Pet Shop Boys remix is not as good as the Sonic Youth (Thurston, really) one, so SY wins. But um, I misread this thread thinking it said Beach Boys, not PSB, and got really excited about this unknown Blur remix.

Don't really see why disliking a Pet Shop Boys song is bullshit or makes them assholes

You're right, it's just the dismissiveness of their response (20 seconds in!) that bugged me but only because I've encountered far too many assholes in person who would do the exact same thing. Doesn't (and shouldn't) change in the slightest what I think of Sonic Youth, however.

Plus, Moore and Ranaldo seemed to be condemning their whole ethos, while their admiration for making music out of the music they love just stinks.

PSB fairly instinctively for me. I still regard SY as something I inherited rather than something that was 'mine' for lack of a better term. "It's a Sin" was what was blowing my mind on the radio in 1987, not "Schizophrenia." But SY's shows when I've seen them of late have been entertainments, so they're okay in a 'still going!' sense. It's an interesting comparison indeed but I think I'd always rather be beholden to something that emphasized beats over feedback.

You're most beholden to something that emphasizes both!

(I dunno, I have the impression that TM and LR seemed pretty familiar with the band and their [am I wrong in saying "fairly consistent?"] style if not the song. LR even liked one of their other songs.)

I'm getting back into NYC G&F. There's a lot there, with all its shadowy demimonde atmospherics, and the sound is great, so crisp and detailed.

You're most beholden to something that emphasizes both!

Damn straight.

...which the Boys aren't.

*rimshot*

I think I'd always rather be beholden to something that emphasized beats over feedback.

Ordinarily, I'd say the same for myself, but I've only heard a handful of Pet Shop Boys singles ("West End Girls" is awesome, the rest hasn't stood out: sorta like Erasure innit?), whereas I've been listening to Sonic Youth for nearly half of my life, and the last couple of records make me love them even more.

i love how kim looks SOO PISSED as a lego.

Don't really see why disliking a Pet Shop Boys song is bullshit or makes them assholes

hmmm i think the thing that rankles is the hypocrisy of the quote. was it "rock journalists" who gave the pet shop boys a trans-atlantic no 1? it seems a rather disengenous, though obviously rather flippant, comment taking into account the yoof's whole aesthetic.

jaymc, do you realize what a hole you've got in your life?

I'm no PSB fan either. I never understood why, because I love 80s synthpop, but the PSB never did anything for me, apart from "west end girls"/"opportunities"/"suburbia" right at the start of their career. There's something about Neil Tennant that bores me, or... something. Maybe like jaymc I just havent heard enough.

(I think this admission is going to dismay someone I know hehe)

I'm no PSB fan either. I never understood why, because I love 80s synthpop, but the PSB never did anything for me, apart from "west end girls"/"opportunities"/"suburbia" right at the start of their career. There's something about Neil Tennant that bores me, or... something. Maybe like jaymc I just havent heard enough.

^ OTMFM, i'm in the same boat

so it's SY for me then

Yeah same here, but somethign in me feels like a Bad Person for deciding this, I dont know why. But I guess my 20 bajillion SY albums/seen them live/tshirts/posters dont exactly shout "hey I dont like that sonic youth much".

You guys can find an inexpensive copyo of Discography online. This will absolve your apostasy.

Apostasy! Now, lets not be too hasty here :)

I will be fair though, and seeketh more PSB, as I did Joy Division recently. I feel ashamed of being such a crap 80s kid sometimes.

When I look back upon my life
It's always with a sense of shame
I've always been the one to blame

Did someone mention that both bands have names which they have seriously outgrown?

Choosing between them is like trying to run three times around the house without thinking of the word 'wolf': they please exactly complementary parts of my musical taste.

Although: I have more SY records, but the older I get the more I listen to PSB.

SY for me, not that this is any sort of easy call at all. I adore them both to pieces.

"It's a Sin" was what was blowing my mind on the radio in 1987, not "Schizophrenia."

haha yes "Schizophrenia" was all over the radio then

I object to the Boys' LEGO renditions. Is that Newt Gingrich next to Chris?

haha yes "Schizophrenia" was all over the radio then

But that's my point! You react to what is readily available first and foremost -- that's what most people do. Digging further into anything is the pursuit and luxury of those who want to do that. SY *weren't* on the radio/regular MTV/the daily paper (at least my daily paper), PSB were, and they were particularly appealing to me even as they fitted into a larger, equally familiar context, and they still almost effortlessly send me far removed from that context now. As I also tried to say but maybe very poorly, they were something I found by just simply tuning them in one day, not by hearing about in hushed whispers as something specifically to be sought out as the ne plus ultra of a scene and style I was barely aware of, as was the case when I first heard about Sonic Youth circa Daydream Nation. Now whether that has further colored my view of SY since, I don't know, but I do know I have appreciated and enjoyed Sonic Youth off and on over the years, they've never held my heart like PSB (or a host of other bands and performers) do.

was it "rock journalists" who gave the pet shop boys a trans-atlantic no 1? it seems a rather disengenous, though obviously rather flippant, comment taking into account the yoof's whole aesthetic.

I can sort of see what you mean, since SY were certainly rock-crit darlings as well. Maybe they were referring to NT's journalistic background, suggesting that he puts the words ahead of the music?

I like beats - I'm listening to Luke Vibert right now - but I don't know that what PSB I've heard strikes me as that interesting in terms of beats. Songcraft would seem to be the main selling point. I've only listened to some singles though. (They definitely emphasize beats more than feedback though!)

I dunno..."West End Girls" and "Opportunities" have pretty rockin' beats, especially in their 12" versions.

the Youth cuz i like guitars and NOIZE.

i have never heard anything by Sonic Youth that made me want to listen to more,except maybe the cover of Superstar, while most PSB (at least the singles from the first 5-6 years of their career, haven't really heard any of their later stuff) makes me want to turn off the radio - so SY in the most uninspiring victory ever......

When ILM is on trial 10 years hence for the crime of crawling up its own asshole, this thread will be exhibit #1.

yeah i don't see why it's so hard to really like both! although i understand people who are wrong about sonic youth much less than people who are wrong about the pet shop boys.

definitely Sonic Youth

though if we're just talking "Into the Groove-y" vs. "West End Girls," result is obv. very different

sonic youth.

psb are ok, they have their moments.

I object to the Boys' LEGO renditions. Is that Newt Gingrich next to Chris?

-- Alfred, Lord Sotosyn, Thursday, 14 June 2007 01:58 (5 hours ago) Bookmark Link

http://www.brickshelf.com/gallery/Dunechaser/Music/pet.shop.boys.2.jpg

Sonic Youth are easily one of my favorite bands ever, so they take this one easy. But I do wish it were otherwise. Unfortunately, even at their best, something about the PSB’s always seems kind of cold/distant/hesitant to me. Maybe it’s just because Neil’s vocals/lyrics are so fucking formal (British?), I don’t know; sometimes I wish he/they would just loosen up a little, I guess. Of course, the best PSB singles/tracks beat just about anything SY have ever recorded, as far as I’m concerned. However, Very aside, SY always made better albums.

didn't sy come in for fairly similar criticisms though? the main criticisms of them on this thread are really just that people find them dull but i had a look at some of the old ilx sy threads and the main things they get attacked for is being outsider hipsters. someone was saying on one of the P&J threads that SY were for a long time rather sneered at by the rock-crit community. is there much truth in that?

Yeah, for about 5 minutes. (and mainly by the more mainstream rock crits)

what was the main line of criticism? simply "ugh no tunes!" or something subtler? judging by what i've seen of these P&J lists i can't see that PBS would be the kind of thing the american crits would go for. also how were PBS regarded by the brit press (NME, Melody Maker etc) in the 80s? i remember a bit in Blissed Out where Grimey Simey call them odious or something, was that the general consensus? i guess Smash Hits might have been more favourable...

SY were for a long time rather sneered at by the rock-crit community. is there much truth in that?

cf. "kill yr idols" & thurston's village voice letter-to-the-editor of 1983 decrying "venereal journalism" lolz

what was his problem?

SY have always seemed to have this cooler than thou attitude. I find it uncomfortable but I love their stuff anyway.

Xgau's hilarious reviews of their early records:

Sonic Youth [Neutral EP, 1982]
You may not think Glenn Branca's proteges are a rock and roll band, but after all, why else would they essay a lyric like "Fucking youth/Working youth"? At their worst they sound like Polyrock mainlining metronome, at their best like one of Branca's early drafts. The best never last long enough. Not for nothing is the sonic grown-up so attached to phony grandeur. C
Confusion Is Sex [Neutral, 1983]
Back in 1970 I played Max Kozloff, a Cal Arts colleague of distinctly Yurrupean musical tastes, some singles I thought instructive--"Brown Eyed Girl," "California Earthquake," "Neanderthal Man," like that. The one he flipped for was "I Wanna Be Your Dog." So if you think the sonic cover here proves they're rockers at heart, you have a fine art critic on your side. The dull rock critic wants to mention that the cover doesn't rock too good. Of course, neither did King Crimson a lot of the time. C+

Kill Yr. Idols [Zensor EP, 1983]
Idolization is for rock stars, even rock stars manqué like these impotent bohos--critics just want a little respect. So if it's not too hypersensitive of me, I wasn't flattered to hear my name pronounced right, not on this particular title track--not pleased to note that, though "Brother James" is a dandy Glenn Branca tribute and one of the tracks lifted directly from Confusion Is Sex is a lot niftier than the other track lifted directly from Confusion Is Sex, the title cut's most likely to appeal to suckers for rock and roll as opposed to suckers for boho posers. Boho posers just shoot off their mouths a lot. With rock-and-rollers you never know. B-

Bad Moon Rising [Homestead, 1985]
They're sure to disagree--what else are they good for?--but despite all their apocalyptic integrity and unmediated whoziwhatsis, the achievement of their first halfway decent record is strictly formal: simple, rhythmic songs that neither disappear beneath nor get the better of the clanging and grinding of their brutal late-industrial guitars. Whatever credibility the guitars lend to their no doubt painful but nonetheless hackneyed manic depression is undermined by their usual sociopathic fantasies, and in the end the music isn't ugly or ominous or bombs bursting midair. It's just interesting. B

unintentionally hilarious

natch.

LR even liked one of their other songs.

no he didn't, he never heard it! they should have though, it's one of the PSB's twenty or forty greatest songs ever.