OK, is this the worst piece of music writing ever?

Argh, nu-ilx has shrunk it slightly past readable; here's a direct link - http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v236/njsouthall/Screengrabs/onsellingoutexepose.jpg

I just boggled at this over my lunch.

"Jonny" is a name for gaywads

This only proves again that editors and writers are two different professions. Hence the two names.

You are actually posting a scan of an article from a student newspaper as the basis for a thread, aren't you? Good lord.

It's a screengrab from the pdf off the website! They didn't have a normal text version...

can you link to the website? photobucket seems to be banned here.

http://www.exepose.ex.ac.uk

goes from strength to strength -- feeder mention is possibly the high point.

System of a Down's top 20 single was six and a half years ago, fact fans.

"Recent developments in music have given Architechs a top 5 single"

surely this can't be THE jonny garrett?

http://www.myspace.com/chasingfaces

(yeah, they have a myspace already, the sellouts)

I suspect it must be, StanM.

I assume, from their name that they like Snow Patrol and The Small Faces.

um, holding up articles by students as examples of 'bad music writing'? talk about shooting fish in a barrel. Matt DC OTM.

Following in the footsteps of West Country acts like Muse and Thirteen Senses by already winning over interest from various major and independent record labels, things are definitely looking good for the boys. Having recently been asked to support New Zealand favourites The Checks who have just finished touring with the likes of JET and Oasis.

"I know someone who knows someone who knows the guy from Young Heart Attack quite well"

blueski and Matt DC offtm, this is the new web2.0 media era, we're all critics now, user provided content is the new professionally written content.

Even in the realm of student media this is BAAAAAAAAD though, Steve - I flick through Exepose every week and this is BY FAR the worst thing I've ever seen in it; hence not starting a thread every week.

Haha I used to write for that paper. I wonder how long before he Googles his own name and finds it.

It would be so wonderful if he googled this thread and responded. What an utterly thrilling discussion and exchange of views that could lead to.

Hey, with any luck he might hop over to ILE and start posting about his sex life or something.

(my question: is the article motivated by his own band possibly signing to a major soon?)

Maybe I should unleash the views of Chris Erasmus at you all?

Haha, yeah, I'd imagine so, StanM.

Hello Jonny's mom! No, he hasn't posted about his sex life yet. Try again later. Bye, ILX.

blueski and Matt DC offtm, this is the new web2.0 media era, we're all critics now, user provided content is the new professionally written content.

-- Dom Passantino, Monday, 18 June 2007 12:36 (11 minutes ago) Link

Dom is entirely correct here. I mean, the chuckle factor is diminished by him being a student, but the democratization of criticism basically leaves us with this sort of landscape (coughcoughP.E.W.cough).

also why do nearly all student newspaper writers write in what feels like the same voice? there's certain syntax and word choices that only student newspapers ever seem to have.

Nobody knows how to sub-edit when they're 21, that's why.

^^not unrelated to why writers in the say, New York Times tend to sound the same. for that matter, ever read Blender? Despite the bylines it seems to be written by one many-armed poprockbot.

that really is quite incredible.

New York Times doesn't have sub-editors? That's crazy!

Hey Jonny, your band fucking suck.

Jonny Garrett of Exeter University, that is.

I think you mean <a href="OK, is this the worst piece of music writing ever?;>Jonny Garrett</a> of Exeter University.

BOO HTML

Kudos on sticking it to Westlife, tho, Jonny Garrett of Exeter University. Those bastards have had it their own way for too long.

Does Westlife even exist anymore?

highlights:

"...bands like westlife who can, quite frankly, go screw themselves with a rusty spoon and get tetanus"

"had nirvana not signed to sub pop... we would probably never have heard one of the most influential artists of our time and dave grohl may have never founded the foo fighters."

the pathos!

but the democratization of criticism basically leaves us with this sort of landscape (coughcoughP.E.W.cough).

democratization of criticism = people slagging this shit off just because they can rather than for any constructive cause. it's just easy target practice, who gives a shit? no-one/nothing is ever going to stop under-grads inheriting these absurd ideas about 'how things should be' in the music industry. surely we've all read this same article many times in the past.

i'm just more relieved than ever my music writing from college days was too soon for blog-era internet heh.

"had nirvana not signed to sub pop... we would probably never have heard of..." Sub Pop.

Was there ever a thread for people to post their own abysmal juvenile music writings from uni days?

Not that I'd post on it, my capsule reviews of Kinesis singles were all fuckin bang-on.

perhaps one day i will post my 8/10 track by track review of 'Be Here Now' from the time.

Yeah, you real writers are all jealous that you've lost the ability to write like that, aren't you?

I wrote a two-part article in my uni paper called "Rhythm & Sound", which basically stated that all rock music that's based on melody or lyrics is boring crap, and that beats and sound are the essential components of good music - hence electronic dance music (and fusion jazz) is the best music there is. I got some angry comments from the indie kids.

Kudos on sticking it to Westlife, tho, Jonny Garrett of Exeter University.

and kudos to you lot for bravely and relentlessly going after such a signifivcant target as jonny garrett. sure showed him!

ts being one of many thick students w/ bad music taste who can't write, vs being someone who actually gives a shit about what said student writes in some minor student rag

or, matt'n'steve otm, u r all losers

but the democratization of criticism basically leaves us with this sort of landscape (coughcoughP.E.W.cough).

student newspapers have nothing to do with the "democratization of criticism"

I can't copy and paste from the Exeter Expose, but if you Google you can find a review where our Jonny talks about "Indy music".

also why do nearly all student newspaper writers write in what feels like the same voice? there's certain syntax and word choices that only student newspapers ever seem to have.

paul please, please tell me you don't actually care about the answer to this

Xp sleeve — I had Roll Out stuck in my head for 2 solid weeks. I liked it.

Pretty sure I heard a diss of Starbucks in “Swinging at the Bim”

Is there confusion about where the 1 is on a Taylor Swift song?

part of her program of formal innovation involves bridges in 13/8 in pop songs, along with an integration of the Mēḷakartā from Carnatic music into pop. it's fab

now I'm gonna have "Blank Space" stuck in my head all day

― sleeve, Wednesday, September 10, 2025 9:26 AM (twenty-two minutes ago) bookmarkflaglink

I’ve had the line in question in my head for 2 straight days now…

Screaming, crying, perfect storms
I can make all the tables turn (or can you?)

if it makes you feel any better, i’ve had the chorus of “cut to the feeling” in my head for a week

xps she/they for Jaime Brooks please

If you expand "innovation" to novelty and excitement and just stuff you haven't really heard before, which is what I'm usually looking for in music (and "formal innovation" doesn't always ring these bells, can sound as dead and boring as anything else), I do think the important shift here is not pop vs. not-pop but the rest of the world versus American and western Anglophone-centric conversations. This isn't new, but it seems like it's accelerated, the need for more coverage of non-western and not-in-English music has only gotten more urgent/unavoidable.

I think there is noticeable stagnation in multiple areas of American pop, including ostensibly underground ones. And even if you like Taylor Swift, the fact that she's been so far out in front of the next-biggest celebrity (which is probably Drake) for at least 10 and maybe close to 15 years is not good!

The good stuff is further out, which was one of the animating ideas in early poptimist conversations. But the answer to this is the kind of boring "just cover less American and English-language music, or treat that as one niche among many" which you don't exactly need cultural stagnation or upheaval in 2025 to think is probably a good idea (it's certainly not a new idea). What I find interesting in listening to much more music than I used to the past few years is just how small a minority of the songs I like are American even though my approach is totally dilettante -- it's less than a quarter. And I really like American pop music!

I'm thinking about MIA's role now because in that first wave of The Internet Is Changing Everything reckoning there was still a pop star translator for wider audiences. I think this is basically no longer true or needed, and that most major pop stars just come directly from the regions they claim to represent. (That requires some hedging, though, because a lot of regional crossover stars are also courting more global audiences.)

I do think the important shift here is not pop vs. not-pop but the rest of the world versus American and western Anglophone-centric conversations.

I agree — but maybe it’s a product of capitalism.

I listened to some songs from the Billboard 100 yesterday while working out and there are certainly some sounds in there that would have blown my mind years ago. I suppose at this point they're either old hat or poor copies of some less popular stuff. Doesn't really matter if you don't know that music though.

But so far I have seen literally zero anti-poptimism pieces engage at all with any other form of pop music than American mainstream pop. Even in the Sanneh piece the only positively singled out pop song was "Shake It To the Max," which is in fact one of the best songs of the year...and was also one of the very few huge hits on the global charts this year that wasn't a hangover from 2024, by Alex Warren, or on the Kpop Demon Hunters soundtrack. (KPDH not irrelevant here obvs)

xpost I mean, I guess? My point is that it's easier not harder for music from non-western countries to break through on their own terms, though, and that not writing about it is a choice -- one made not just by big websites or places that publish the few remaining critics, but by tons of people who just like to talk about how music sucks. It's more like "read a book" for glancing at any chart that is not the Billboard 100

("I guess" in response to "it's a product of capitalism")

And being American of Anglo descent. I remember 20 years ago, I would go over to my friend Mark’s apartment, and he had this fairly pricey cable package that included all these channels (including music ones) from the Middle East and “Global South” and it was this rare thing at the time to have that access and exposure. Now it’s like free online … or like, subscriptions are super cheap.

I listened to some songs from the Billboard 100 yesterday while working out and there are certainly some sounds in there that would have blown my mind years ago.

And this is also true (less than a quarter of music I like is still a lot)

I was saying it was a product of capitalism that non-Anglo/US music feels/sounds so exciting and fresh to us because most of what we’ve been exposed to has been Anglo/US music… also how capitalism in the form of globalization has created market conditions/technology distribution to parts of the world as part of the offshoring/expansion of capitalism.

Now it’s like free online … or like, subscriptions are super cheap.

Not only that, but it just comes up more organically all the time with people I know irl who aren't music nerds. My kids are having their big "their music vs. our music" elementary school wars about Kpop Demon Hunters vs. Hatsune Miku (newly introduced to Fortnite). When I go to restaurants I'm more likely to hear Bad Bunny than Sabrina Carpenter.

xpost But most non-Anglo/US music is not being super formally innovative and doesn't sound unfamiliar to me, it's just better and more interesting and there's more of it. And a lot of it is better because of how it's absorbed American styles and created alternative pop stars that aren't that different from Taylor Swift's trajectory, say, but are just doing more interesting things at the song by song level. The "technology distribution" is literally just....a computer and an internet connection, not nothing but also not super cutting-edge as current tech goes.

I was talking about production more than distribution.

In re the globalization aspect… I think there is familiarity that makes the “foreignness” exciting

If you expand "innovation" to novelty and excitement and just stuff you haven't really heard before, which is what I'm usually looking for in music (and "formal innovation" doesn't always ring these bells, can sound as dead and boring as anything else), I do think the important shift here is not pop vs. not-pop but the rest of the world versus American and western Anglophone-centric conversations. This isn't new, but it seems like it's accelerated, the need for more coverage of non-western and not-in-English music has only gotten more urgent/unavoidable.

I think there is noticeable stagnation in multiple areas of American pop, including ostensibly underground ones. And even if you like Taylor Swift, the fact that she's been so far out in front of the next-biggest celebrity (which is probably Drake) for at least 10 and maybe close to 15 years is not good!

The good stuff is further out, which was one of the animating ideas in early poptimist conversations. But the answer to this is the kind of boring "just cover less American and English-language music, or treat that as one niche among many" which you don't exactly need cultural stagnation or upheaval in 2025 to think is probably a good idea (it's certainly not a new idea). What I find interesting in listening to much more music than I used to the past few years is just how small a minority of the songs I like are American even though my approach is totally dilettante -- it's less than a quarter. And I really like American pop music!

I'm thinking about MIA's role now because in that first wave of The Internet Is Changing Everything reckoning there was still a pop star translator for wider audiences. I think this is basically no longer true or needed, and that most major pop stars just come directly from the regions they claim to represent. (That requires some hedging, though, because a lot of regional crossover stars are also courting more global audiences.)

― cr4bdbgs, Wednesday, September 10, 2025 12:29 PM (seventeen minutes ago) bookmarkflaglink

this is an interesting post and while i'm sympathetic to a lot of it I also kind of thing its wrong

just as an example... what you're describing here is an outgrowth of the same dynamic Daniel_RF describes in his post where he says the reason he bought in on poptimism was it made a more compelling argument about the novelty of the market than rockism had, because he was familiar with the antecedents in rock and less familiar with those in pop.

The same thing is happening at the global scale...lots of global music is much more traditional than it might seem to anglo ears. Another example of this that's internal to the US is something like the "low end" sound out of milwaukee, uptempo, new orleans-inspired beats that also border on house music or something, but that people rap over...they sound like "the future" to a lot of music nerds, but it turns out, they existed in a very localized form 15 years ago. The past is constantly being mined and redistributed, a stock market of under- and over-exposure.

What this points to is that our conversations are still very much shaped by power dynamics of the media sphere (no matter how self-aware we are that it is, in fact, just a sphere, around which exist lots of other conversations of lesser visibility). The Moliy record isn't good because its "forward-thinking," as much as its good because I like it. Does it feel very contemporary? Yes, so that's likely a part of why I like it. But I think the quest for "forward thinking" or "innovative" records in this sense is a kind of red herring. Tyla stumbled into a conversation stateside that made sense in South Africa but confounded fans here. Is she responsible for not adjusting her approach to fit in with America's own conversations if she's trying to break as an artist *in America*, or does america need to adjust to her? Well, the truth is, both could happen, but her last album sold very little here, so there's being right and there's being profitable and ultimately running up against the hierarchical structures of the globe are going to have some concrete effects on artists and how their sounds are perceived by that global audience (still very much dominated not just by western media, but by western economies. An artist in say, Venezuela, streaming one million streams in venezuela makes a small fraction of what an artist in venezeula makes streaming one million times in the united states).

Otm — that’s a clearer version of what I was trying to convey

The cost of professional music production is pretty close to zero at this point. And I'm saying it's *not* the "foreignness" in itself that is exciting -- kids don't like KPop Demon Hunters (American, but with K-pop stars) because Korean culture is intriguing to them, and they aren't playing Bad Bunny at the restaurants because it seems "foreign." It just sounds good (and you can't play Sabrina Carpenter at elementary school events).

xpost hm I don't think we're super far off, though? I'm trying to wrench "innovation" back from formal innovation and just get it back to "this is an interesting song." I've heard many of these sounds and genres before -- it's not like I've never heard reggaeton or South African house music or Brazilian funk (though the shift into the '20s was pretty wild). The difference is that these scenes are genuinely competing with American pop rather than being (to Anglo/US listeners) things they have to search really hard to find

Tyla seems like the opposite to me -- she's not a huge star in South Africa compared to many other amapiano artists. She absolutely changed her sound to fit in in the states, it just didn't really work (yet). Fwiw she's bigger on the US Afrobeats chart than on the South African charts, though not sure how much info "US Afrobeats chart" gives you.

lots of global music is much more traditional than it might seem to anglo ears

I very much get this, but I also don't think this is true right now specifically. This is a moment of huge, interesting developments in a ton of regional scenes all in very different ways, and the scenes are also influencing each other while bypassing the US for the most part.

lmao @ tables posts itt. how does the saying? a wise man learns from their mistakes, a wiser man learns from others, the wisest man doubles down and makes ten more idiotic message board posts about it

the wave of mark fisherian anti-poptimism that lots of ilxors got whisked along by was mostly imho vibes-based—it was just part of the zeitgeist of trump term 1 dirtbag left era for many online millenials—but to the extent there were fundamental causes i do think the pre-pandemic era of pop was in a bit of a doldrums. just perusing 2018 like.. cabela, insane amounts of drake, travis scott and other post-kanye stuff… i find the last couple years much more compelling. as an unreformed unfashionable poptimist stalwart, i’m always “long pop” and i feel like the cycle has rebounded

It's a pretty good rule that people who are sound about politics on Twitter/X/Bluesky have awful takes on music, and they also love to invoke "poptimism" though they seem to think it means "you are compelled to like taylor swift"

the musical zeitgeist in that late 10s era was also very soundcloud rap in a way that didn't code as pop even though its biggest stars were hugely popular, it had a parallel w/ like 90s grunge/alternative imo, so it made sense the discourse took kind of a parallel swing...

it does feel like anti poptimism is a long of shadow of that moment detached from whats actually popular, like taylor swift and beyonce being such touchpoints for it instead of the pop that would actually be interesting to a 2025 poptimist

anyway cr4bdbgs I do actually agree with you that global music is often full of innovative and unusual and forward thinking sounds even when removing the friction of "foreignness" but I think the US still has that too. I think historically music overseas is often brought up in contrast with black american music which obviously drives a lot of the creative innovation within the music industry here writ large, and the way white writers would often not catch on to innovations within black music for 5-15 years after they happen means that they're often grading foreign musical excellence against popular american music which they haven't fully wrapped their heads around

not saying you're doing that, but why I resist the temptation to be overly reverent toward the 'internationalist view' even if stricty speaking it is true that IE amapiano is one of the best and most exciting genres in the world right now for ex

'internationalist view' to me means, a narrative of 'borders are breaking down, the US is no longer number one, if you don't listen to the great global output you don't know what's happening in music' which is obviously true at some level but I also don't think that every critic should be some internationalist dilettante, I think there's nothing wrong with focusing on what's exciting to you locally nor does it mean you're some kind of critical backwater

I think the US still has that too

I agree! I definitely don't want to engage in a dogmatic internationalist view -- my interest is mostly in the *relative* interest of (eg) american pop versus to all other possible music (including overlooked stuff in the states, I guess). (My recent interest in thinking about this re: the anti-poptimism stuff probably overstates the internationalism a little, or draws too much of a line between US/non-US pop. Maybe worth noting that in lots of scenes, it's post-soundcloud rap and related "hyper-" stuff that is the part of the engine for many of the changes.)

pop that would actually be interesting to a 2025 poptimist

Also agree with this -- just seems very counter to the spirit of conversations during the formation of "poptimism" to reduce it to the (few remaining American) megacelebs, even though lots of og poptimists will defend specific megacelebs on the musical merits. Usually not Drake.

xpost I struggle with "everyone should be an internationalist dilettante," which whether it's a bad idea or not isn't really in the cards. I'm a committed dilettante as a matter of taste rather than princniple -- I just get bored easily. But I also follow lots of folks who write about predominantly American genres and it's totally appropriate and coherent and great.

well also its like, If im reading about amapiano usually id rather read someone steeped in it than someone who's ranking it between like mk.gee and earl sweatshirt albums

I guess that's always been true for me tho im not really into the dilletante pose as such even if I am into lists that work across genres I prefer the passionate enthusiast view I guess

I think there's nothing wrong with focusing on what's exciting to you locally

I think that’s actually the “best” approach in terms of current music writing tbh … like substack rando or AI can review a recording or summarize a press release or bio, but actually having a sense of what people “in the scene” are excited about or how something plays live and also where … like that’s what is interesting to me as a reader in terms of contemporary music.

I remember seeing reviews and reading old ilx posts about music in the 00s from the SF Bay and having a sense of cognitive dissonance because some of the more adulated artists were people who not that many people locally gaf about…. Often because their shows were boring or idk.

There's some added dimensions to this dilettante vs enthusiast divide when we're talking about non anglo music because either you're reading an anglo who might be stuck in some level of Outside Ethnographer status or if someone's writing from within the culture they'll be dealing with the dilemma of why be the Anglo Whisperer when you could be writing in the language and for the audience the music actually comes from. Not saying either of those are bad by definition, just sufficiently fraught that I can see why critical writing wouldn't be that widespread.

Good points!

I don't normally read track reviews on pitchfork, but a friend mentioned the "Berghain" review being "weird" and wow it is truly terrible: https://pitchfork.com/reviews/tracks/rosalia-berghain/

After every sentence I’m thinking “please elaborate?”

Last sentence truly feels like the writer was eaten by an ogre mid review and Pitchfork just decided to publish it anyway.

"Then there’s the matter of the titular Berlin nightclub." sentence fragment

I didn’t think it was that bad until it just ended so abruptly

truly the “Berghain” of track reviews, maybe the reviewer was trying to be conceptual and meta

t was the best of times, it was the worst of times, it was the age of wisdom, it was the age of foolishness, it was the epoch of belief, it was the epoch of incredulity, it was the season of Light, it was the season of Darkness, it was the spring of hope, it was the winter of despair, we had everything before us, we had nothing before us, we were all going direct to Heaven, we were all going direct the other way—in short, the period was so far like the present period, that some of its noisiest authorities insisted on its being received, for good or for evil, in the superlative degree of comparison only—but “Berghain” never quite earns its provocation.

The writer always seems to include some kind of cultural hook--like his 'viscus' reviews talks about Oklou's pregnancy, he brings bell hooks in the "Art of Loving" review and then there's this from the Man's Best Friend review:

No matter how much controversy her pup-play album cover riles up, Carpenter is a pop star in the traditional mold—a showgirl, if you will. The “dress like a princess, curse like a sailor” gambit has nearly run its course, but what a coup in our vulgarly puritanical cultural moment. I picture a room of label execs clapping each other on the back while Carpenter turns toward the camera and winks. They let her sing the word “fuck” 10 times.

it doesn't seem *terrible* on a sentence level, and the first graf seems fine enough. but the second graf feels like a nonsequitur and then it ends abruptly.

Yeah I agree with Murgatroid. It's not even out of bounds to talk about the track's subject matter, but "this is named after a Berlin nightclub, some people have said its politics are bad, Rosalia is also often political" and then just a shrug of "it hasn't earned its provocation" leaves you with nothing - is the track tackling the club controversy? If so, how does it fail to "earn" this, what are the missteps? If not, what is the provocation? Just feels totally cut off at the middle.

I'm not going to go line by line and shit on this since I assume it was written in a very short time, but I think you guys are being v generous to the first paragraph. However, yes, it's the second para that prompted me to post it here. The whole Berghain angle makes no sense and appears to be based solely on it being the title of the song. Meanwhile he tries to pack in two separate, thorny discussions about cultural appropriation into a very poorly contextualized parenthetical that tbrr I don't think he is remotely capable of participating in

https://www.pastemagazine.com/music/cindy-lee/i-dream-of-cindy-lee

Well, that's a subhed.

That’s a… subhed, alright

Matt Mitchell is the editor of Paste.