contrived emotion

aren't all emotions in art contrived?

All art manipulates, that is what it is there for. I think it becomes a problem when artistic devices are used in such a hamfisted way that it ruins whatever illusion the work was trying to create.

"I Try" to thread

yeah, mt, i think they are. i just want people to say something about the line between good and bad contrived emotion. how does it all work?

when i read that "soul =" bit a few weeks back i'd never had it laid out so simply for me.

i mean, isn't all communicated emotion contrived?

This is one of those BIG questions that I don't even want to deal with. It is all subjective and it is all a matter of degree.

o.k.

everyone on this thread otm except tape store

By big, I mean that this could go on for 500 posts and there would be the usual people with the usual positions and not much will be resolved or accomplished.

according to the first definition, all music (organized sound) is contrived.

v. con·trived, con·triv·ing, con·trives

v. tr.
To plan with cleverness or ingenuity; devise: contrive ways to amuse the children.
To invent or fabricate, especially by improvisation: contrived a swing from hanging vines.
To plan with evil intent; scheme: contrived a plot to seize power.
To bring about, as by scheming; manage: somehow contrived to get past the guards unnoticed.

v. intr.
To form plans or schemes.

[Middle English contreven, from Old French controver, contreuv-, from Medieval Latin contropāre, to compare : Latin com-, com- + Latin tropus, turn, manner, style (from Greek tropos; see trep- in Indo-European roots).]

you can spend days arguing semantics about music. I would rather just listen to it.

Listening to song involves a suspension of disbelief I guess, a willingness to be manipulated, to surrender to the performed emotional effects.

At some point though you think "no, I won't go there", mentally change the channel as it were, the effect is too stupid or over the top and throws you out of the song: you can still enjoy it, maybe in a more distanced, slightly mocking way, but it's a much greater effort to believe in it.

And it works the other way too - the contrivance is a protection for the listener (and perforner), take it away and listening can feel uncomfortable, voyeuristic even. (Some people chase this feeling of course and find it more authentic).

elliott smith
mark kozelek
jacob bannon

alright, i'll stop...

Music itself is a gigantic contrivance, like movies are, or any other art.