Courtney Love: Is She Crazy?

There's even a Christina Aguilera mention as well! Joy.

Madame Love accosted me backstage at Clinic's SXSW show. She peered at me through half-cocked eyes: "Are you Clinic?" She then asked me if I was Clinic's manager, and then again if I was Clinic. She also asked a uniformed police officer, "Are you Clinic?" To which he replied: "Ma'am, I can be anything you want me to be." Clinic refused to let her in their dressing room: "No, man, she's a nutter, isn't she?" It was pretty rough...

Courtney Love: Legally Incompetent?

Please note the typo in the legal document. ("L.L.C. Agreement)

I don't know, but I did hear that she is getting her daughter to record songs, which seems to me to be a really depressing brand of exploitation.

She's vile and bereft of any redeeming qualities.

I have no idea whether or not she is legally crazy, but she certainly seems pretty unstable. The Celebrity Outtakes thing with her was almost horrifying (screaming incoherently at random "goth" fan about fucking Trent Reznor and Edward Norton for as far as I could tell no apparent reason) in a "what is wrong with this woman" way. Of course all this could be media-driven BS, I'd say that everything I've read, seen or heard makes her seem entirely right in head.

. . . NOT entirely right in the head was what I meant to say.

Courtney crazy? Possibly, but I've read a number of interviews with her and she seems like a rather intelligent person, at least when sober. I hate her music, so this isn't any reactionary fanboy crap, just an observation. She reminds me of a female Axl Rose: she just does and says whatever's on her mind, is offensive and un-PC, is a bit of a media whore - but somehow people love Axl for the same reasons they hate Courtney.

All of which is a true enough thing...but then again, Axl Rose hasn't done that in a *long* while.

People love Axl? Forgive me. Am I missing something here?

Yeah, I'm a bit lost on that one too. No one I know likes Axl personally even if they are huge Guns 'N Roses fans.

I think what just means, is that if Courtney Love was male, the Kerrang swallowing trogolydtes that usually criticise would be much in the way of "Hey, rock man! Wooo!" and so forth.

She is intelligent, I think I remember reading somewhere that she has a near genius level IQ. The point is, if you'd been through everything she's been through in her life (poor upbringing, abusive relationship with husband, husband commits suicide, shoved into single motherhood, crucified by the press as a whore, miscarriage, having penetrative intercourse with Trent Reznor) you'd be slightly gone as well. We need COurtney Love though, she's the last gasp of the interesting female musician.

Ironic fact: the webmaster of the official Placebo website once nearly got punched by me for saying he hated Courtney Love, because she's a "junkie slut". That's the webmaster of the Placebo website. Placebo being the band fronted by Brian Molko. Sheeesh.

Smallville: SUPERMAN THE EARLY YEARS has made me reconsider Courtney in a whole new context and in fact AMERICAN ROCK MUSIC! I love telly! Oh she might be a mentalist, it's not for me to judge. All that bleach must haf done SOMETHING to her BRANE though har har.

I've got issues with folks who subscribe to the "rhythm section ain't really in the band" theory. REALLY big god damn issues. Go, Dave & Krist!!

ok colin, but what about "the girlfriend ain't in the band"? i hate that shit: GO YOKO!!

If you look at Courtney Love on the level of well-know celebrity as well as a musician, then at least she's interesting. She's complex, intelligent, funny. Rather her than an airbrushed, focus group-ed pop muppet/ film star/ whatever. You can debate the rights and wrongs of what she's doing, but she's doing *something*, she has an opinion, she's making us talk.

There's girlfriends and there's girlfriends. Yoko has as much claim to Beatle-dom as Billy Preston does, which is an awful lot. It'd be a much harder case to make to say that Courtney was a Nirvana (what did she do in the context of that band?), hence (I think) her rhetorical reduction of that band to her late husband.

also moms: lennon's mom is SO a key member of the beatles, but where do we evah hear anything about her? GO JULIA!!

So, when you die, you don't want any of your worldly posessions going to your wife or mother, you'd rather have them go to the people you worked with, who didn't speak to you in the last two months of your life?

Uh, Mark, I'm pretty sure that Courtney was initially the one doing the sueing here. She wanted to disallow the rhythm section guys from having any say about future releases and reissues (and if I'm not misstaken to receive any money from those releases and reissues). Would you support Yoko if she sued the Beatles saying that ALL their songs belonged only to her and her family and that Paul, George and Ringo should have NO say in how they were administrated and should receive no money from any of the songs they recorded collectively? This seems a slightly better analogy. Of course, Grohl and Novoselic strike me as just as greedy and lame as Courtney and playing the hysterical insane female card is always pretty sleasy so make of this whole ridiculous thing what you will.

i think by law the MUSE should get everything

I didn't think Kathleen Hanna has made any claims yet.

Maybe I should have the rights. Yeah, that's it.

The 'Courtney = fascinating' approach really comes down to personal taste, because I'm really not all that fascinated. I'm not even perversely impressed.

Ned in acting like a curmudgeon shocker!

MUSE?

The majority of the songs recorded by Nirvana (including the ones on "Nevermind", which generate the most revenue) were written and recorded before Courtney even came into the picture. Also, when you look at the lyrics on "In Utero", it's pretty apparent that the majority of the lyrics were inspired by Kurt's general anxiety over his newfound fame and fortune, of which Courtney was a peripheral contributor (some may even say aggravating factor) at best.

INTERESTING?

Yes, Courtney is interesting. So was Marvin Gaye. He was also a wife beating, cocaine abusing, paranoid asshole who had a nasty habit of not paying his musicians (wasn't the priviledge of playing on a Marvin Gaye record payment enough?). But at least he had talent. You can't even say that about Courtney.

CRAZY?

Define crazy. She certainly behaves in a way that is destructively anti-social. As far as I know, there isn't one person in the world who she's maintained a decent relationship with, professional or otherwise. If everyone you ever deal with ends up hating your guts, chances are you're the one with the problem. I'm certainly not qualified to determine weather that problem is actually clinical, but it is a serious character flaw nonetheless. One that would seriously damage one's credibility in court.

where's that thread where we proved courtney-hatas are all just jealous she got to fuck kurt and they didn't?

Kurt would be too stubbly for me.

Ned in acting like a curmudgeon shocker!

YOU KIDS TODAY, with your hula hoops and Palm Pilots and mood rings and...

Kurt was not stubbly! He was a grate kisser. Sorry to pull rank and all, but there are a few too many mistruths flaying around. And yes: GO JULIA!!

I wish there were more people like Courtney Love in pop music.

jerry is it true they called the first-born bean after mr bean?

Kurt was not stubbly! He was a grate kisser.

Fair enough. Then I should say, he *looked* too stubbly. ;-)

Yes, Courtney is interesting. So was Marvin Gaye. He was also a wife beating, cocaine abusing, paranoid asshole who had a nasty habit of not paying his musicians (wasn't the priviledge of playing on a Marvin Gaye record payment enough?). But at least he had talent.

How many nice guy rock star geniuses can you think of? (sounds like a cue for a new thread) John Lennon beat his first wife, was known to make the occasional anti-Semitic crack, sported a Mao badge just a couple years after "Revolution," and frequently came off as a first- rate asshole. So why do people talk about him with such (there's no other word for it) awe? I don't think it's all down to the stuff he said about peace. I think, strangely enough, that it's because he was "interesting." A truly mesmerizing personality, and we don't get many of those anymore. Courtney comes off as a publicity-hungry creep one minute and a thoughtful person the next. Some of this seems deliberate and some of it seems accidental, and that's what makes her interesting. In a rock culture that seems made up of unpleasant spotlight-hogs (Liam Gallagher) and even more unpleasant whiners (Thom Yorke) she's an interesting, unstable combination.

Define crazy. She certainly behaves in a way that is destructively anti-social. As far as I know, there isn't one person in the world who she's maintained a decent relationship with, professional or otherwise.

Except Winona...

**jerry is it true they called the first-born bean after mr bean?**

No, it was after a lump of coal. That's what I heard (why would I make this up?)

How many nice guy rock star geniuses can you think of? ...she's an interesting, unstable combination.

I didn't say that Courtney wasn't interesting. I was simply bemoaning the fact that peple too often mistake this trait for actual talent.

Marvin Gaye, John Lennon, Thom Yorke, and even Noel Gallager have all made incredible music. This is why people hold them in such awe. Their personalities are peripheral considerations. You canot legitimately say this about Courtney Love. She has never produced one ounce of work that lives up to the media storm that she is able to cultivate around it, despite it's inherent lack of quality.

Pop music does not need more Courtney Loves. Itneeds more Joni Mitchells, Bjorks, and Madonnas. Courtney wouldn't last two seconds in the same room with any of these woman, who are both interesting AND talented.

I disagree, at least about John Lennon. You may be right about Gaye and Yorke, but it is all but impossible to separate his music from the idea of 'John Lennon' and all the baggage that came with that weird media presence - Yoko, the anti-war stuff, his murder, etc. It is far from a 'peripheral consideration.' I'd even say that it's hard to separate Oasis' music from their public image - you can't distinguish between the arrogance Liam projects as a person and the arrogance in the way he sings "Rock'N'Roll Star."

I find it a little bizarre that you list Madonna with Joni and Bjork. She seems to have more in common with Courtney than either, and I'd say her personality has a lot to do with her music and how people respond to it.

More Joni Mitchells? Oh please God no. Don't we have enough already?

media storm = the work

if you limit the band to the guys who actually take the stage or enter the studio (and ignore the ppl in their heads who animate and drive them) and if you limit the work to the records and shows (and ignore the things that make these happen, which animate and enable them), then rock nevah existed

I disagree, at least about John Lennon.

Yeah, sure. He was a no talent hack. Never made a good record in his life. His profound influence on 20th century music is due only to his media savy. Right.

You could say that the John Lennon solo records were bad, but for the most part, you'd be wrong. Perhaps you can't separate the music from the idea of "John Lennon", but quite a few people can. This is because the songs are actually thought provoking, beautiful, poetic, etc. You know, good.

"I find it a little bizarre that you list Madonna with Joni and Bjork. She seems to have more in common with Courtney..."

Except that she has actually produced music that warrants the media frenzy surrounding her. Courtney has not done this. Hasn't even come close.

"...and I'd say her personality has a lot to do with her music and how people respond to it."

I never said that it didn't. The point is, the music justifies the personality.

More Joni Mitchells? Oh please God no. Don't we have enough already?

We have far too many Joni Mitchell imitators, but very few women who actually walk the walk. If you see no difference between Jewel/Sarah McLachlan/The Cranberries and Joni Mitchell, then I guess the music of Courtney Love should be right up your alley.

media storm = the work

The media storm is an advertisement for a product. When the product is bad, the advertisement ceases to be merely brain fodder, and begins to become quite offensive.

Of course a good amount of work goes into the media storm. Entire industries prey on this fact. But if the product (e.g., the music) is any good, chances are that a greater amount of work (not to mention skill) went into the product.

"If you limit the band... then rock nevah existed"

And if you mistake media frenzy for talent, you end up listening to crap like Milli Vanilli, and actually believing that it's good.

I find this last sentence so overwhelming in its implications that I can do nothing more than to doff my nonexistent hat. *does so*

Pop music does not need more Courtney Loves. Itneeds more Joni Mitchells, Bjorks, and Madonnas.

Pop music needs a good swift kick in its pants. Pop needs more fresh fruits and leafy greens in its diet, and less red meat. Pop music needs a man who can take it home. Pop music needs a vacation. Pop music needs to diversify its portfolio. Pop music needs to change its sheets. Pop music needs the need that needs the need that needs the need that needs to need that needs the need that needs to need the need that needs. Pop music needs to know that we only want what's best for it.

You could say that the John Lennon solo records were bad, but for the most part, you'd be wrong. Perhaps you can't separate the music from the idea of "John Lennon", but quite a few people can. This is because the songs are actually thought provoking, beautiful, poetic, etc. You know, good.

Easy there. I'm not saying that John Lennon wasn't a great songwriter, just that he was also a presence in the media, and a very influential one. Why do you think people were so upset when he died - because he was a good songwriter? So was Sandy Denny, and there was no ten-minute vigil when she died.

The media storm is an advertisement for a product.

Beatlemania was just one big advertisement? Punk, too?

I'll say it again. (In response to the cry for "more" Joni Mitchells.)

More Joni Mitchells? Oh please God no. If you can only judge women by archetypes and what went before, you're fairly sad - right?

"There was no ten-minute vigil when [Sandy Denny] died."

Nor was there even a ten-second vigil when Fabrice Morvan died, nor should there have been.

"Beatlemania was just one big advertisement?"

Well, yes. An advertyisement for a product that was actually worth it's salt, and a thousand times over at that.

It's a shame that Sandy Denny, Nick Drake, and Roy Harper weren't rewarded with equal amounts of reverence in their lifetimes (or ours, for that matter). Some people (John Lennon, Madonna, Bjork) are worth the time we spend hearing about them. Some (Courtney Love, Fabrice Morvan, Corey Feldman) are simply not.

"If you can only judge women by archetypes and what went before, you're fairly sad"

If that's the only implication you take from what I said, that is sad. I'm not judging any of these people themselves. Only their work. That's why I brought up the diverse likes of Bjork, John Lennon, Madonna, Thom Yorke and Joni Mitchell. None of these people need answer to that which came before, because their product (e.g., their music) is sufficiently unique that it occupies it's own realm. When your product is stale and derivative (as is the music of Courtney Love), you have no choice but to answer to the past. It becomes inescapable.

I think that when I say "more Joni Mitchells", you interpret that as "more woman performers tirelessly rehashing Joni Mitchell's first two records". That's not what I mean at all. I would simply like to see more originality. I could just as easily have said, "more Bjorks, PJ Harveys, or Kristin Hersh's". Get it?

Some (Courtney Love, Fabrice Morvan, Corey Feldman) are simply not.

Corey Feldman?

Thread started as great. Thread has gone overpompous, except I love Corey Feldman and they can't take that away from me, ever!

i DO like milli vanilli, so there that is... and "reverence" is always stupid, so there *that* is

"get it"?

Milli Vanilli are more authentic than Madonna -- their style remained rooted rather than spinning frenetically around to the next trend. And Courtney is more authentic than Joni because her guitar is louder.

and I like Axl...so mmm

Thread has gone overpompous

I suppose that I have no choice but to agree with this. Of course, when you start with shit, you end up with shit.

Better great shit than overpompus shit!

"Courtney is more authentic than Joni because her guitar is louder"

Then I suppose Yngwie Malmsteen is one of the most authentic people out there.

YNGWIE = ROCK!! We haf a winnah!!

I think Courtney Love is super! I think Bjork is super! I think Joni Mitchell is a goddam genius! I think Madonna spends too much time in the gym.

Just to put the overpompous shittiness of this whole thing into perspective:

http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/ASIN/B000050I48/qid= 1019492448/sr=8-2/ref=sr_8_67_2/103-4778896-5422202

― Elijah, Monday, 22 April 2002 00:00 (twenty-three years ago)