Best Prog Rock Micro-Genre

Can you vote for "Krautrock" AND "I don't like prog"? Actually, Progressive Electronic seems a better vote than Krautrock

I voted for Progressive Electronic but I'm intrigued by Proto-Prog. What Beatles songs would count as such? The Abbey Road suite?

And do any artists sing in Zeuhl besides Magma?

I guess Strawberry Fields Forever, that kind of stuff?
Ruins / Koenjihyakkei have a sort of take on Kobaian, but it seems to be more phonetic.

Oops, I meant: "And do any artists sing in Kobaïan besides Magma?"

I guess that's as good as a categorization break-down as one is likely to get (for an ultimately hopeless enterprise).

I personally would have put the "Art Rock" and "Symphonic Prog" bands, at least as indicated above, together. When I think 'Art Rock', I'm thinking more Roxy Music, vocal album Eno, Berlin-era Bowie, Be Bop Deluxe, Foxx-lead Ultravox, etc. And the "Prog-related" option of course screams "category of exclusion" (Iron Maiden and Wishbone Ash placed together--ha ha). The "proto-prog" band examples also seem mish-mashed (maybe if they had listed Beatles, Moody Blues, Procol Harum that might make more sense).

Oops, I meant: "And do any artists sing in Kobaïan besides Magma?"

Not really, though some of the earlier Magma splinter-bands (Weidorje, Zao) have the most similar operatic-phonetic vocal style. There was a band called Eskaton, who were (at least on the their first album) extremely Magma-ish but sang in French; it actually worked quite well.

DRONE ROCK!!!!!

(Though isn't Dronerock the anthesis of prog, in execution, though not in theory?)

Well, Neu! are on there, they're kind of an antithesis (and Kraftwerk and prob'ly others)

Eno!

How is Indo-Prog/Raga Rock not drone?!

Not much droning going on in the Shakti album I've got

what about indie prog

Symphonic prog all the way. Lots of great proto-prog too, but it wasn't prog.

I personally would have put the "Art Rock" and "Symphonic Prog" bands, at least as indicated above, together.

There is a distinction. Art rock acts such as King Crimson were slightly more experimental and avant garde, while symphonic rock acts such as Genesis and Yes were more melodic in their approach.

There may be some overlap though - part of King Crimson's first two albums were closer to symphonic than art rock. On the other hand, ELP usually did some stuff that was influenced by 20th century classical music, and as such had more in common with art rock than with symphonic rock.

And as for Rush, they are not art rock. I would classify them as proto-prog-metal.

Pronk

in the absence of Cardiacs or Mansun-related categories i have gone for 'experimental/post-rock', although i'm not happy with your choices of example bands.

mansun, oceansize, and youthmovie soundtrack strategies are (were) all part of a movement signally neglected by this poll. and, to a lesser extent, the electronic mood-prog of 65DOS/working for a nuclear free city.

Geir surprisingly OTM!
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Oh I was just going by the Prog Archives categories and top-rated albums within said categories as popular examples. Once you get really into these micro categories there's no end to it is there? What would you actually call the sub-sub genre Mansun were part of?

post-production effects-pedal micro-prog-frenzy?

no mention of 'hyperprog' either (fiery furnaces, architecture in helsinki).

Is there such a thing as turbo-prog yet?

p.s. trying to outline with a single genre descriptive music as varied and advanced as mansun's/65DOS'/oceansize's is very silly

ultrasound were also members of the mansun clan

Agree regarding indie prog. The likes of Mansun and Muse don't belong elsewhere, but are certainly proggy enough for inclusion.

Besides, there is another genre missing as well: Prog pop. Think 10cc, Supertramp, Klaatu, Barclay James Harvest and Alan Parsons Project.

Btw. Arena, Spock's Beard and Flower Kings belong to another generation of neoprog than Marillion, IQ and Pendragon, but I guess you can count them as neoprog.

Not that I believe a lot of people would vote for neoprog anyway. I mean, I like those acts, and I love a lot of those albums, but that's mainly because it reminds me of the stuff that I love from the 70s, and there's no way that I'd possibly rank Marillion or Spock's Beard ahead of Genesis or Yes. There may be the occasional Marillion nutter who seriously consider "Brave" the greatest musical masterpiece ever made though.

Geir speaking a frightening amount of sense on this thread, although in fairness, it is his Mastermind specialist subject! :-D

The one with Genesis and Yes in it comes 2nd in my vote, btw. I love some of that shit.

As much as polls can be "difficult", this is difficult for me to choose. Firstly because I'm pretty enthusiastic about at least half of the genres mentioned, but also because although I love some of the bands listed as being "of" the genres, I hate others. eg. Love Gentle Giant, don't like Rush; love Neu, hate Faust etc. Reckon I'll probably go with either the Canterbury Scene or Progtronica.

Where's Brutal Prog?

There is a distinction. Art rock acts such as King Crimson were slightly more experimental and avant garde, while symphonic rock acts such as Genesis and Yes were more melodic in their approach.

There may be some overlap though - part of King Crimson's first two albums were closer to symphonic than art rock.

Well, I think all the Art Rock bands listed were just as 'melodic in their approach' (for the most part). I think you just mean Yes and Camel, on average, had more euphonic, 'happier' melodies (and as you point out, ELP has harsher, less euphonic harmonic sense that by this standard would place them with the Art Rock bands).

King Crimson also had material after their first two albums that to me are still of a blindingly 'symph prog' nature (e.g., "Exiles", "Starless", stuff on Islands), at least, no more or less than Yes or Genesis' tracks from the same period would be.

And as for Rush, they are not art rock. I would classify them as proto-prog-metal.

"Training Wheels-Prog" (Rush, Marillion, Dream Theater) :)

Brutal Prog is covered by RIO / Avant.
Prog pop is covered by Prog Related or Neo Prog, depending on whether it's from the BM (Before Marillion) era or not.
All indie prog is covered by Experimental/Post-Rock.
No idea where Cardiacs fit into all this.

All indie prog is covered by Experimental/Post-Rock.

I guessed this would be the case, hence my vote.

write-in for Math-rock.

Tim Smith of the Cardiacs always refers to it as Psychedelia. That no-one else calls it that doesn't seem to worry him. You could go on inventing names for this kind of thing for hours: Frat-Canterbury anyone?

Well, I don't like the term 'Prog' much myself. It's true that there are bands who self-identify to it (and thus limit themselves); Cardiacs wer enever like that, seeking (nobly) to create the best and most exciting music that they could at any given moment. 'Psychedelia' is probably fairly accurate, however, if we must cut it down.

i wish there were british kill files

haha

i'm now off for a week, consider that yr killfile

Agree about the term prog. I don't like it. Partly because I don't want music to "progress". I like the "symphonic" term a lot better, and it has occasionally been applied to a lot of this stuff.
Other than krautrock or postrock and for me, krautrock and postrock, with their empasis on improvisation rather than precomposition, doesn't fit into the same category as the others at all.

Iron Maiden??? WTF???? I mean, within the hard rock genre you cannot possibly come further away from prog than NWOBHM. NWOBHM was mainly about applying the values of punk on hardrock after all.

Geir have you ever listened to Don Caballero? or Drive Like Jehu circa YANK CRIME?

Last post before departure: most of the post-rock I like has been scrupulously precomposed, or at least written, performed as it was written, and then altered with extra tracks/post-production effects to suit the creator's vision. Very little of what I like has been entirely improvised.

Actually, where DO you draw the line between composition and mental improvisation? Surely in working out which way to take one's piece one must do a little bit of initial improvisation, before settling upon the best route? Argh, that's probably a debate for another thread. Someone start it please. And then find a solution before I return from foreign shores...

no wait, i'll do it

hmmm where does Agalloch belong? I'll vote for that one.

best prog album of the year!

Wowee Zowee! Have You Guys Heard The New *Kosmos* Album? Pashmina, You Would Probably Like It.

You can't lump Iron Maiden in with most NWOBHM bands. They started there, sure, but from Powerslave onwards, they've been getting progressively more, well, progressive. Hell, their last album didn't have a song shorter than seven minutes. If it wasn't for their first four albums, you could probably call them a progressive metal band.

(And yes, I realize that song length doesn't make something automatically progressive, but their songs definitely sound progressive.)

Well, these days they have to fit three guitar solos and a thundering bass bit into each song to keep everyone happy. No wonder they go on for that long.

What, would you say is their proggiest number? Rime of the Ancient Mariner? I haven't kept up with them for the last 3 albums, though the Maiden poll is encouraging me to check out their recent stuff.

Well, I'm voting "I don't like prog", because I don't like prog, and because the prog I unexpectedly find myself liking (TV On The Radio, sometimes Deerhoof) doesn't seem to rate a category.

Maiden's Seventh Son of a Seventh Son would qualify as a prog album, I think, and that's from '87.

on prog archives Agalloch are under "progressive metal"

http://www.progarchives.com/artist.asp?id=1933

How does Traffic get described as prog-folk, by the way? Or prog-anything, for that matter? There's basically one folk track in its catalog, and that's pretty straight-up folk. Most of the rest is either poppy acid-rock (early) or pretty straightforward jazz-lite jamming in very traditional blues-based structures (late). I guess maybe that's prog if Santana or The Doors are prog, but I wouldn't use the word to describe any of them.

Take a look at any dedicated prog message board for more "what is prog?" fun.

I guess Deerhoof and TV On The Radio would come under Experimental/Post-Rock, but it's a ridiculously wide category.

I don't want music to "progress".
Geir outdoes himself.

Automatic thread bump. This poll is closing tomorrow.

I'm going to put it in a write-in vote for Geir's category of pop-prog if only to assert that utter greatness of Klaatu's Hope album. I guess I do this in protest over the inclusion of krautrock as a prog micro-genre. Some krautrock is prog but the greatest of these groups, Can, was barely prog at all (maybe vaguely sides three and four of Tago Mago and maybe "Bel Air") - more Velvet Underground.

Hope is really Klaatu's only prog record per se and actually the prog elements on it put it more in the "symphonic prog" category.

The last three Iron Maiden records have been incredibly progressive, to the point where I'm not sure what their most prog song is anymore because they have so damn many of them. There's a song on Brave New World that sounds pretty much exactly like Queensryche ("Ghost of the Navigator," if I remember correctly). I think they even toured with Queensryche for that album.

Where is pronk? I want to vote for PRONK!

Automatic thread bump. This poll's results are now in.

Ha-ha. So the best prog genre is the one that's least prog-like. This is kind of like when UB40 won the New Pop poll

"Hatred of genre."

I think they even toured with Queensryche for that album.

they did. queensryche did operation: mindcrime after halford opened the whole thing up. maiden had this huge set up where the three guitarists could run around and bump into each other while bruce had pulleys and shit to swing on over them. during "the wicker man" they erected a two story, um, wicker man they pretended to burn while scantily clad ladies writhed around inside. it was an awesome show, all the way through, completely progged out. times like those you really realize how political taste is -- maiden is metal, most people would say, which is cooler (most people would say) than prog, and yet they're playing songs like "ghost of the navigator" that sound more like crimson or gentle giant (or queensryche, good call) than they do sabbath or hanoi rocks or whoever. and maybe if the poll's 'progressive metal' category had been like maiden, neurosis, and mastodon it would have gotten more votes

Indeed. As the first poster said: Can you vote for "Krautrock" AND "I don't like prog"? Seems to be what happened here.

Where does Yanni fit into the Prog equation?

hellenic prog rock, via aphrodite's child

i wonder if a symphonic kraut category (grobschnitt, eloy, etc) would have split the top vote

Slightly disappointed that I was the only one who voted for prog-folk, but relieved that Marillon got 0!

I mostly found it amusing that Queensryche started off sounding like Iron Maiden, and then Iron Maiden ended up sounding like Queensryche.

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FUCK YOU