How does/did Steve Albini feel about producing/recording that second Bush album?

I think he feels like he got paid to do a job.

Yup.

There was a spin article(cover story?)with some quotes from albini when razorblade suitcase came out. Iirc he seemed to enjoy the experience - even going so far as to defend them against nirvana clone accusations. Gavin claimed that they wanted albini because of surfer rosa, not in utero. My favorite though was albini asking him to try a vocal again and saying "think of all the trim you'll get".

That's a great-sounding album and it's got some tunes as well.

Just go ahead and ask the man, right on this thread
http://forumserver.twoplustwo.com/showflat.php?Cat=0&Number=11034555&page=0&fpart=1&vc=1

Blunt, that thread is a real find. Amazing.

Holy shit - I played online poker against a dude whose handle was "steve albini", & I think I told him to go fuck himself after a bad beat.

So much for getting him cheap.

awesome! the tone of his introduction is so beatific.

That's a great-sounding album...

RS was one of my first jams.

Way more so than it deserves.

Aww man I dunno, Bush always got a bad rap in my opinion. Damned if they didn't know how to write a hook. "Greedy Fly," that shit just kicks.

A friend of mine actually does play poker regularly with S.A. and a few other Chicago sound engineers. I forget how he ended up hanging out with them.

i read that thread a couple days back, its a riot

he mentions that he was invited and attended gavin/gwen's wedding

I did an album in the 90s for the band Bush, after they had had a couple of big hits already. While we were working on their second album, they kept pursuing a particular song that I thought was a the weakest and most derivative of the whole set of songs we were working on. A complete dog. Whenever they asked my opinion, I would admit that this particular song struck me as disposable, and they should concentrate on other stuff.

In the end, they did a version they liked, which I still thought was a turkey, and the song "Swallowed" was released as the first single from the album.

It was also their first Number One hit single. I apparently know nothing about what makes for hit records.

Gavin Rossdale, singer of the band, forgave me enough to invite me to his wedding to Gwen Stefani, where my girlfriend was able to pocket all kinds of "Gwen&Gavin" monogrammed trinkets, none of which have yet made it to eBay.

Vinyl or Digital?
___________________

Neither. I go straight for the vagina. You find them on women.

haha

It's too bad that thread's died off -- I totally want him to confirm/deny reports that he once stood in a plexiglass box at the Northwestern student center and let people pay to throw stuff at him. (Either that or explain the very strange cartoon of his I found in an old paper while working at the library's archives.)

Which Chicago rock critic is a bigger douchebag; Bill Wyman, Jim DeRogatis, Greg Kot, or someone else?

Well, Jim DeRogatis is clearly the biggest, and Wyman no longer even pretends to cover Chicago, so he's immaterial. Kot generally has his heart in the right place, though he does fall for sucker bait like the Polyphonic Spree and the like. The dumbest professional music writer in Chicago though is a retard named Jessica Hopper, whose writing is simultaneously sophomoric, vapid and excruciatingly self-satisfied. It is literally impossible to glean any actual content or criticism from her writing, which is an achievement of some sort, I suppose.

I noticed that, too. Hard to take his criticism of Hopper very seriously, though, when he claims elsewhere in the thread that straight women, as a rule, do not like good music.

except for the fact that he's pretty much right about Hopper.

Albini's kinda tough to distinguish from a 15-year-old geek who's good at something.

I think you're thinking of ILX, except without the "good at something" part.

There used to be interesting electronic music, before that became a synonym for a special kind of horrible dance music. I enjoyed quite a bit of this pre-disco era: Iannis Xenakis, Morton Subotnick, the White Noise, Silver Apples, Kraftwerk, Suicide, DAF, Tommi Stumpff, S.P.K., Throbbing Gristle, Whitehouse, Metal Urbain, Cabaret Voltaire, Tuxedo Moon, Factrix, etc. There is very little going on now that can compare to the either the creepy dread or the crazy inventiveness of the pre-sampler era.

I do admire bands like Wolf Eyes, and I had a single from Arcane Device that I liked, but honestly, dance music really destroyed the whole electronic genre for me, and I no longer even look for it.

when he claims elsewhere in the thread that straight women, as a rule, do not like good music.

haha ever the provacateur. altho juvenile and stupid

Plexiglass thing is true, or at least he talked about it in interviews I've read from the 80s. It was for his art degree

steve, what do you think of sheryl crow's "anything but down"?

it's awesome, isn't it

I am unfamiliar with this song. I am actually unfamiliar with Sheryl Crow's music, except for what Bob plays in the van, but every time I see her in videos or what have you, I wonder if she likes it in the can.

I wonder why that is?

Albini's kinda tough to distinguish from a 15-year-old geek who's good at something

how many 15 year old geeks do you hang out with?

Correction: a fourteen-year-old who is good at something

Q: What does every girl really want?
ALBINI: Another pair of shoes, someone to call a whore and a reason to cry.

Q: Why is the new Shellac record so half-assed?
ALBINI: The rest of the ass is busy getting licked shiny by your ma.

not only is Albini very good at something, he's fucking smart. No wonder he an asshole with a penchant for yanking the chains of the gullible.

he "is an asshole", obv.

"has" would've been funnier than "is"

i like him a lot, despite some profound philosophical disagreements

Quote:
So, Stevie-baby. I made up a joke...
Q: What do The Police and Big Black have in common?
A: In both bands, the drummer was the most talented musician.

So, anonymous internet dork. I thought you were done here.
Q: Retard?
A: Retard who likes the Police.

Ha, Don, I find it a curious stretch that you presume Albini's being smart must mean he's involved in provocative chain-pulling, as opposed to being, I dunno ... a smart person who is often involved in dicky posturing. I mean, it seems to me like Albini himself would be the first to admit that he does plenty of dicky posturing.

(Specifically, the sort of dicky posturing done by awkward geeks who are good enough at what they do that they can get away with it -- a situation Albini has in common with, you know, talented 15-year-old gamers on message board or whatever, which is kinda actually what he sounds like some of the time.)

I shouldn't put it down to that, though -- he's a pleasant guy and all, which seems generally agreed on; he just happens to like being crusty and dickish and argue with people in other contexts. (I was going to say "you know, like hstencil," but hstencil is usually just arguing the topic itself, not constructing some hard-man self-image around it.)

Plexiglass thing is true, or at least he talked about it in interviews I've read from the 80s. It was for his art degree

-- DJ Mencap, Wednesday, July 18, 2007 10:18 PM (1 hour ago) Bookmark Link

dude has a journalism degree.

super-late pass for ilm.

It's like stence was waiting for his name to come up!

It's too bad that thread's died off

it hasn't; he made the most recent post today

my name wasn't on this thread until i posted, dave.

I was kidding, stence, but you should check the post just before yours.

Ha, Don, I find it a curious stretch that you presume Albini's being smart must mean he's involved in provocative chain-pulling

That's your presumption, not mine. If you've read Albini over the years (or, indeed, interviewed him), you know that he enjoys putting on an air of assholiness. It's been his M.O. for decades, it's pretty obvious he finds it amusing that people seek some sort of deep opinion at all out of him. I might be inclined to agree with you about his tendency to act like a 15-year old gamer (I know none of those personally, and I certainly have never hung out on gamer boards either) but the company that he attracts professionally and personally suggest otherwise. He likes being dickish and crusty because he knows it will get a rise out of people.

oh shit, good one nabisco.

dude has a journalism degree.

Wait yr right. It was an art project of some sort, anyway

bahahaha guys it's gotten to point where he's now replying to questions in haiku:

Quote:
I was talking to the band Yourcodenameis:milo recently about their "All Roads To Fault" album that you produced and they told me that you were "very confused" by their sound!

No British band is
capable of confusing
anyone on earth

DIMENSION 5IVE RIPOFF

Quote:
Any thoughts on the last Scott Walker record, The Drift.

Overrated but
undeniable weirdo
arty Phil Collins

somewhere in that thread is a link to big black's final tour diary that he wrote. kind of an eye-opener in a weird way

20 years ago! man time flies. and stuff.

yeah. scary

anywhere it's here

anyway, not anywhere

whoa, shocking! a 20-something male obsessed with sex

his pathological disco/dance hate is kind of silly

Hey Steve, do you like the Jesus Lizard?

Interesting stuff. Makes me wonder if I should listen to Jesus Lizard again. Then again, this is Albini talking.

"Goat" and "Liar" are always worth listening to

At the time, I tended to write them off as just another kilscratchbuttcow noise-rock outfit. Maybe it's time for a second look.

the difference is that David Yow's backing band had skillz.

wait you're lumping in Scratch Acid, too? give them another shot as well if you get into JL.

But Bush decided not to sit in the pub with a publicist (and an expense account) and complain about not being big in America. They mounted a campaign of incessant touring and earned their stripes. They played the whole continent, then played it again, then played it again until the radio started playing their music.

And once they had a modicum of success — once they cracked America — Bush didn’t sit on their heels. They doubled-down on the road work that had built their profile, riding the wave until it hit shore.

In critical circles Bush took more than their share of heat. Back home they were derided for ignoring the channels of hype and commerce that the British music scene required of its stars. No surprise the music industry in the UK was incredulous. Bush were seen as usurping the sales, chart position, radio play, and most importantly the money that had previously all been under the control of the clannish enterprises that spawned proper British careers like the Bay City Rollers or Duran Duran.

In the states, they were run down for wearing their influences, often American ones, on their sleeves, and for the un-Bunyanlike sin of having a good looking frontman and, well, putting him out front. All of that, thankfully, can be discarded as the temporal trivia it was, and like most questions involving music, their popularity can be explained by listening.

Bush’s music is proud of its inspirations, and Bush used the platform of their popularity to champion bands they thought deserved attention, taking a score of underground or breaking acts on tour with them and regularly paying tribute to the bands and songs that inspired them, occasionally covering the songs themselves to make it plain. I have worked in the studio with bands from the smallest to the largest, from those with no expectations to those with the grandest ambitions, and I am confident in ascribing genuine motives to Bush as I am of any band I’ve encountered. Through working with Bush they became friends, and I am as proud of their friendship as I am of any work I did for them. They made the music they did because they loved it and they got popular because they worked their asses off, and eventually other people liked it too. You cannot ask any more of an artist.

-steve albini

https://consequence.net/2016/11/bush-share-never-before-released-razorblade-suitcase-track-sleeper-listen/

I got reintroduced to "Greedy Fly" recently on Lithium Deep Tracks, realizing it was probably the last real blast of Abrasive Albini to get heavy radio play in the states (the subsequent singles from the album fared progressively worse, and then by the end of '97 the "Mouth" techno remix did well).

I interviewed Rossdale last year. He's frighteningly good-looking (and uses a ring light for Zoom interviews, which puts your average schlubby journalist at even more of a disadvantage). We talked about RS and Albini briefly.

When you were making Razorblade Suitcase with Steve Albini, how much money did he take off of you either at poker or pool?

ROSSDALE: [sharp inhale] We played a lot of pool, and he’s very good. He’s too good at poker. So I didn’t get into that with him. But yeah, the pool stuff, we played, and I’m just… I have really fond memories of making that record with him, and just the idiosyncrasies of Steve Albini. To be there working with him and hearing [it] coming back from the monitor board — it was very exciting. It was commercially the worst idea, we should have just… we could have just found someone to try to reproduce Sixteen Stone and keep in that more polished vein, and we were just brilliantly naïve, like, fuck it, we’ve now played two years on the road, if anyone can capture the kind of muscularity of the band or the shimmer of the band, he’s the guy. ‘Cause he’s literally like, he only allows you overdubs if it’s compositionally intentional. If you said it at the beginning. Daft. If it was compositionally intended, then okay, but otherwise it was like, who cares.

frighteningly good-looking

Oh, to be called that even once in my life lol

It can be a curse.

Or so I’ve heard.

Bush’s music is proud of its inspirations, and Bush used the platform of their popularity to champion bands they thought deserved attention, taking a score of underground or breaking acts on tour with them and regularly paying tribute to the bands and songs that inspired them, occasionally covering the songs themselves to make it plain.

That’s cool, but I don’t see how it insulates them from perceptions of having a derivative sound. Anyway, I quickly searched for the band’s influences and opening acts, and see the names of… other bands Albini produced (and was even in).

It’s pleasant to read Albini saying such nice things about a band (compared to what I recall him writing about, say, the Pixies… whom I see Rossdale has proclaimed "the most influential band" to him); but I feel it’s gotta be largely b/c he’s buddies with the band and likes them personally. (Nothing wrong with that!)

https://lifeoftherecord.com/#/pixies/

Steve has definitely softened his criticism of the Pixies these days. He'll actually admit it's a good record, and he's highly complimentary of Kim Deal's talents and work ethic.

(love this podcast, btw- check out the Neu episode if you care about them at all)

Albini’s horrible slur towards Jessica Hooper upthread inspired me to buy 2 of her books. I really hope this pissant can grow up one day

andy cohen of silkworm was a live second guitarist for bush for at least one tour and I just realized albini must have been the connection

inspired by this thread I started listening to razorblade, and ... ooof! It's probably better to listen to records albini grudgingly admits are good despite hating the artists.

There was a record that I hadn't thought of in years that was playing in the office the other day - it's this Urge Overkill album called "Supersonic Storybook." Now, Urge Overkill is a band that I had long ago dismissed as being pointless fools, but listening to this record I had to admit I thought it sounded pretty good. And I kinda felt like it was a flattering representation of that band at the time. I think I did a good job on it.

re: hopper, albini's sins are well documented, but I get a weird vibe whenever hopper's name pops up in odd places ("This American Life", etc...) I don't know if there's anything to it -- she'd alienated a lot of her scene peers as a kid (who hasn't?), and was apparently phone-stalking albini to the point of pissing off his wife -- is there anything to it?

re: albini as human craigslist musician's wanted section, didn't he get the slint drummer into the breeders, too?

beamish13 at 3:28 25 Jun 23

Albini’s horrible slur towards Jessica Hooper upthread inspired me to buy 2 of her books. I really hope this pissant can grow up one day


he has and has spoken and written extensively about his regrets

Yeah, was going to say that interview quotes feel suspended in time, but even 2007 to now he’s evolved.

Yep.

Fwiw, Hopper was always an ambitious scenester, with all that entails. Can't speak to her beef with Albini or his wife, but I know plenty of folks that have had issues or run-ins with her (Hopper). As with Albini, I suspect she's changed, but just the other day a friend waved a red flag about something more recent involving her.

idk much about hopper beyond her r kelly stuff (righteous) and the mag fields stuff (less so)

I always liked this essay on emo from an ancient Punk Planet

https://lithub.com/classic-jessica-hopper-emo-comes-off-like-rimbaud-at-the-food-court/

They both have talked shit about a lot of bands, but in the end it's what they've championed that has made the most difference to the world.

didn't he get the slint drummer into the breeders, too?

andy cohen of silkworm was a live second guitarist for bush for at least one tour and I just realized albini must have been the connection

― na (NA), Sunday, June 25, 2023 4:32 PM (three hours ago) bookmarkflaglink

it's been a while but i'm pretty sure this is stated outright in the silkworm documentary

what's wrong with being an ambitious scenester

what's wrong with being an ambitious scenester

Nothing, if you know and accept that that's what you are. Hopper thinks she's the new Ellen Willis when she should have been aiming to be the next Lisa Robinson. My beef with her is twofold:

1) Her writing is unmemorable (both in terms of her ideas and the quality of her prose)
2) She's a bad editor — when she was "editing" the Pitch, pieces got published that didn't look like anyone had even glanced at them for spelling, grammar, and punctuation, never mind asking the writer "are you sure this is the stand you want to take, and are you sure you want to defend it this stridently?"