Pay no more than $18.99 for this record! (the indie label/major distribution thread)

Dischord is now going through Universal-owned Fontana

How do you do
I don't believe we've met...

http://www.dischord.com/about is more specific but Google suggests this relationship between the two has been in place for a very long time

I just found out about it myself but the Epitaph thing is recent. I don't really find myself in the Dischord FAQs too often.

If no one wants to talk about it, that's cool...

it also sounds like they aren't directly going through fontana; rather, southern sells dischord releases to chains and other stores via fontana.

so the checks they cash are from Southern, so they are still cool in the scene?

I am not saying I have a huge problem with this (it creeps me out a bit), I just think there might be some implications of it that are worth discussing is all.

For example, there are people who can't make a living anymore because they are punk rock ditributors with no top line shit to sell along with all the DIY punk they talk stores into taking a chance on with their orders.

"the scene" haha

yeah, irony intentional bro

The Epitath thing is pretty by the book for them though. Haven't they been in bed with majors for ages?

The Dischord thing is kind of silly though as it's clear that Fontana 1) are not exclusively distributing their stuff and 2) aren't even dealing direct with Dischord.

that is a piss-poor rationalization for it IMO. An intermediary doing your dirty work does not excuse "the net effect of what you get".

Why are major distribution channels seen as worse than indies? They are, basically, all a bunch of music biz fucks so who cares? I dunno about really small distros, the mid-size indies (you know who I mean) aren't exactly anarchists. Just ask anyone who's ever worked for them in a menial role (warehousing etc).

there is a lot of discussion in there about this as regards what you are allowed to upload. The rules say indie label/major distro is OK to upload.there is a lot of discussion in there about this as regards what you are allowed to upload. The rules say indie label/major distro is OK to upload.

Dude, talk about piss-poor rationalizations. So any major distribution is some kind of devil's deal that means the label no longer deserves your money?

"An intermediary doing your dirty work does not excuse "the net effect of what you get"."

What dirty work? Putting your record in shops where people might actually buy them?

(also works out nicely for the members of the "online community" - more free shit)

So if you made a CD, and I bought the CD, and I sold it to Hitler, that would be your responsibility? Does Fontana fund Dischord? Do they have any say in the label? Any control?

But tell us more about this indie-only file-sharing community.

haha, well the intent here is actually to get it to Hitler.

I am actually just asking what people think.

I am not on some indie soapbox. I do see Dischord records in Borders at a high price after two separate distro markups as being somewhat counter to several of their previously stated missions (made before there was such thing as an FAQ), just as I was a bit nonplussed when Big Dipper signed to Epic.

Do I mind? I am not sure... I am not here to take sides, I was curious if anyone even cares about this sort of thing. Definitely, agreed that indie dists themselves are not saints.

Does Fontana fund Dischord? Do they have any say in the label? Any control?

In the abstract, this is a very slippery slope. I don't doubt Ian's resolve but a lesser person might be quite vulnerable to this. And yes, evidently, they help fund Dischord is the exact point.

"I do see Dischord records in Borders at a high price after two separate distro markups as being somewhat counter to several of their previously stated missions"

Really? I see the text saying not to pay more than $10 and the USPS as being pretty inline with "their stated missions".

"just as I was a bit nonplussed when Big Dipper signed to Epic."

who could forget. that was the day the music died.

in a weird way, it was...

http://www.scenepointblank.com/features/ianmackaye/ianmackaye.jpg

I still don't really see what the difference is between Cargo or Warners distribution (for example), other than size. Both liable to tell labels to release something saleable, both run by jaded fucks. I guess smaller distros are more likely to take on small labels but that's more in the hope that one of 'em will hit it big.

Can we talk about Shudder To Think now?

they help fund Dischord is the exact point

having a relationship with a distributor who pays for your label is one thing. Having a major-label owned distributor order CDs from your distributor is another thing.

still, sounds dubious to me

at least he's fucking trying!!!!!!!! what the fuck have you done, wrinklepaws!

I am a member of an indie-only file-sharing community and there is a lot of discussion in there about this as regards what you are allowed to upload. The rules say indie label/major distro is OK to upload.

I'm just trying to get my head around this part. So the community has agreed to only avail themselves of free indie stuff? Are the positive vibes from the enjoyed music supposed to translate into money at some point?

Genuinely curious here. I understand buying indie-only. That's economic participation in an idea of community. A filesharing community that only trades stuff based on its place in the economic chain...that there is some weird-ass specialization imo

That took me a minute to understand too, but I think he's saying that indie label/indie distributor is off limits but indie/major is kosher. Which is still bizarre, I agree.

no I understand what is & isn't allowed, I just don't see how it makes a difference if you're not participating in the economics of indie vs. major; if people think "indie" is music that is inherently in possession of some particular musical qualities, well, good luck with that idea

what if an indie band thinks about signing with a major? like in bed at night. is it okay to download their stuff?

ahahah

askin for trouble around here, i feel. i don't know enuf about any of it to squawk (is that actually how u spell that thing?) but i'd venture to guess it's one of those heatedl threads.

what I do is only download music by bands who can't pronounce the word "major" correctly or who at least pronounce it weird

lots of norweigan black metal as you might imagine

the idea that it's ok to upload indie label/major distro is such fucking bullshit. Because ADA's got your stuff in stores you have nothing to worry about, you're just rolling around on piles of money.

I'm going to buy them. Thanks though! Cheers! Scott

Scott Seward/Decibel Magazine
15 Mae Ave.
Tisbury, Mass
02568

-----Original Message-----
From: F***e F***d PR | Da***l
Sent: Jul 26, 2007 7:57 PM
To: skot✧✧✧@earthl✧✧✧.c✧✧
Subject: re-issues

scott-

do you want copies of the Young Marble Giants or Fire Engines re-issues I am working?

i'm punk as fuck.

c'mon Scott, we'll send you two if you give it a good review.

yeah, see, that's just it. i didn't see me reviewing it for anyone, so i'd rather just buy it and "support the scene". also, i'm kind of a weirdo.

I hate to argue it but:

So if you made a CD, and I bought the CD, and I sold it to Hitler, that would be your responsibility? Does Fontana fund Dischord? Do they have any say in the label? Any control?

If you continually sold your CD to Hitler and I knew about it and I still gave it to your friend, then yes I would be at least partially responsible. In this sense Dischord would recognize Southern's credibility is tainted by going through Fontana (assuming Dischord has any actual problem with Fontana or their practices. I don't know that they do. I also don't really know totally what Fontana does.)

what's wrong with Fontana? they put out awesome Troggs records.

fugazi wishes...

http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/e/ec/FontanaRecord45Small.jpg

just real quick bc I am a bit busy...

To those of you who are confused about the filesharing ethics of this particular place, I believe it is something to do with liability as much as anything. Little indie-owned labels don't usually have in-house counsel.

I think they might have some weird ideas about "indie music" too, but I don't really endorse those or really much about the place. I can honestly say I haven't visited there in a long time.

Don't get it twisted, I am ALL ABOUT THE FONTANA LABEL!!!

A filesharing community that only trades stuff based on its place in the economic chain...that there is some weird-ass specialization imo

Indie = non-RIAA = music we can share without getting our asses sued. There's your economic basis.

not mine, but I believe that is part of the idea, yes.

Actually I can remember being really annoyed when they named the distributor after that nice label...

In this sense Dischord would recognize Southern's credibility is tainted by going through Fontana (assuming Dischord has any actual problem with Fontana or their practices. I don't know that they do. I also don't really know totally what Fontana does.)

Fontana is just another outlet for the music, presumably one giving Southern more access to more listeners and and getting them paid in the meantime.

But are they doing anything in the process that is counter to
dischord's stated ethos?

I'm really asking, I don't know.

Well, after two distro markups, plus whatever Borders chooses to make it (which is well out of anyone's control, unless "marketing money" is involved), you tell me what price they are selling for in there.

http://www.funtonia.com/mp3ringtones/Minor_Threat/

that link would be even more funny if it was bleepy tone reproductions of minor threat songs instead of real clips....

still very creepy tho...

Dischord can't control what Fontana or Borders sells it for. The fact that they tell you you can buy the CD for 10 dollars from them directly on their packaging, essentially saying "don't buy it here, order it from us" and yet Borders and Fontana still bother selling it says something. People will sell things at whatever price the market will bear. But what are they supposed to do, sell it at no profit? It's a rip-off, buy directly from labels when you can.

Indie = non-RIAA = music we can share without getting our asses sued. There's your economic basis.

So much for the Napster = Robin Hood myth. It's always been hard for me to understand why the major or minorness of the distributor would matter to anyone on a moral level, but it's still kind of depressing to hear about a "community" that has apparently dispensed with the pretense to ethics altogether.

Let's be clear about the Dischord/Fontana connection: Fugazi are good. Getting their CDs in the hands of many people is good. Many people live in places where the only stores are chains and mom-and-pops, some of which don't deal with indies directly, only through bigger indie distributors and/or one-stops. Getting Fugazi CDs to some of those people, if they don't know about the Dischord mail order, requires someone like Fontana. Fontana provides a service to the label, the stores, and the customers, for which they charge, which leads to the markup. There is nothing wrong with that. Unless someone knows something specific about Fontana that's evil, the Dischord/Fontana connection is good.

The only really shocking information on this thread is that Mr. Seward is refusing free YMG/Fire Engines CDs instead of forwarding them to my attention. Please explain!

But what are they supposed to do, sell it at no profit?

When 'Out Of Step' was a new record they sold it for so cheap that they actually made a loss on every copy. They wised up pretty quickly, hence, y'know, still being here

I bought my first Fugazi cassette in a mall record store, a crappy chain called Square Circle Records that over priced its garbage. That tape, which was cheaper than anything else in the store, changed my life. Then again, I stole a Spin Doctors cassette from the same place.

never mind...

Dischord stuff is $11.98 list price for the most part via Fontana. Wholesale from a one-stop is around $8.40. Buying direct (if I were open with UMVD) would be $8 or so. I'd sell those for 12 bucks in my shop (maybe $11 if I were direct and hit a deal), so the distrib does make some dough on this stuff.

Well, good, they should! If a less enlightened store owner than you chooses Fontana to get the records on the shelves, then Fontana should make some dough for the service. The store's cut will be about the same, right? As I see it the only people even arguably hurt by this are: (1) the customers paying more than they could, who should eventually figure it out and skip the middleman, either buying direct themselves or patronizing vendors who do (and Dischord nicely makes this choice kind of obvious on every release), and (2) the non-major-affiliated distributors who only sell indie acts, maybe can't afford to offer you the same discounts, and have a harder time when their top selling artists are made available through other channels. People fault indie labels for not supporting the scene when they skip indie distribution or make it only one of several ways you can buy their releases. I can't figure out why the potential indirect negative consequence on those distributors should keep the artists from reaching everyone they can, every way they can. In the music business as I understand it no one at any level of the chain (artist, label, distributor, store, customer, am I missing anyone?) owes anyone else any loyalty.

Whoops left a couple species off the food chain, journalists and filesharers, though not sure where exactly they fit. Anyway, except for some especially whorish journos, what I was saying about the cut-throat no-loyalty music biz is true of them too.

who the hell cares about fugazi anyway?

sorry, that epiphany was a little late for this thread.