Taking Sides: Radiohead vs. Tool

I know that as a zeitgest-address I MUCH prefer "I'm the man and if I'm the man then you're the man and he's the fucking man" to "I'm a reasonable man, get off my case"

Also, IMO 'Amnesiac' should've sounded like Six Finger Satellite, remember them? (consider when somebody lazily tiredly clichedly says "(x's album) should've sounded like y" - is that a slur on x, y, both or neither?

Real Answer= Skullflower's 'Carved into Roses'.

It's a good one, that is. Not easy to hum, though.

Radiohead/Tool records don't declare themselves as art-rock? Have you seen their videos/album covers?

Sorry - I meant the question to imply Tool does and Radiohead doesn't

i came in here to see if anyone had already said 'radiohead are tools' (i dont think so...)

I assumed that's what you meant, Dave, but I put in the "/" cos I couldn't decide which band was more aware of their being art-rock.

Tool toured with King Crimson, I don't think they're hiding their colours

and RH tour with brass bands and an ondes martenot, yesno? (unless you're saying that rh refuse to recognize the "rock" part of a-r)

Yeah, far from it -- on that tour, Maynard usually took the time to thank King Crimson for being there and being such a huge influence, etc.

Radiohead got good right about when Tool got bad. It's a zero-sum game this art-rock.

If the question is who do I prefer, it's Radiohead. Tool, wow, all that banging and flailing... they'd do well do purloin some second-hand classical themes from Crimson. Tool's lyrics and album covers are the pits too.

I'd agree that Tool's lyrics are horrible, though Thom Yorke's aren't much better. luckily they're usually unintelligible

If members of both bands went to prison together, Radiohead would be the bitches. Tool probably have better record collections too so I'll give them the vote. Really, though, it's a moot point - I like them both now. Mainstream rock music can do no wrong.

The last sentence was clearly ironic. The controversy is preposterous.

I suppose I ought to hear some Tool. I really am not expecting much though.

Oh, and Sundar completely means it. ILM is the only irony-free music board on the interweb!

Someone please define "art-rock". And then someone define "prog". Hopefully, this gets settled in one clean thread, once and for all.

You have to break it down into several points to figure out who is better here.

Lyrics- Maynard can be brilliant (46&2, H., Eulogy, Pushit (or if you look outside of Tool, to APC, you will find no one in modern rock can even touch his ass)) or he can be crap (Hooker With A Penis, Ænema). Thom Yorke is basically mediocre through and through, plus his lyrics don't have as much feeling in them as Maynard's.

1 Point victory for Tool.

Guitar- Adam Jones is innovative and can play a multitude of styles (metal, alt. rock, art rock, avant-garde, dream-rock, space rock). He brings Tool to what it is and is a brilliant melodicist. Radiohead's trio is just as good in melody, but don't have the many, many styles of Jones.

1 Point Victory for Tool

Bassist- There is no comparison here. It's got to be Chancellor (not A'Mour who sucked). Anyone who has listened to both bands AND found out which part is bass (a role reversal Tool does allows Chancellor to do the melody alot of times.)

Since this is utter domination- 2 points for Tool.

Drummer- Even more of a bitch-slapping on Radiohead. Danny Carey has been called the best drummer in rock. His tribal rhythms and just incredible playing (he can perform two different drum solos for some hair band at the same time).

2 points Tool.

So far- 6-0 Tool.

How well the fit together- Tool and Radiohead seem to compliment each other equally as well.

Draw.

Originality- Tool has created their own genre basically. But cutting off the first two releases of each band, Radiohead's OK, Kid A, and Amnesiac have been slightly more experimental than Tool's Ænima and Lateralus. Tool keeps its music from straying too far from regular metal (even though they stray EXTREMELY FAR from metal, somehow it works) so they can keep a wide fanbase. Since they can pull this off with almost being as experimental as Radiohead, Radiohead will only get one point.

Feeling- Radiohead is cold, bland, and uninspired. Tool is the epitome of emotion in alt rock. The guitar parts tug at you, the voice calls you, the bass lures you in, and the drums beat the crap out of you. Listening to Radiohead is listening to good music. Listening to Tool is having an experience.

3 points Tool.

9-1 Tool. Now that was done unbiased as to whether or not you like heavy music. If you do, add 10 points to Tool. If you don't, add 10 to Radiohead. That is basically what it comes down to folks. They are rather incomparable.

Proven by science!

I really have to get to a point where if I read crap like that I won't have a desire to react. I'm getting there, I really am. I'm just not there yet.

'slightly'!

They may appear more experimental at first, but when you look at it, all Radiohead's doing is making a Pink Floyd-U2 sound with a more modern appeal. Tool is making a Pink Floyd-King Crimson sound with a more modern appeal. Of the two, Tool gives more of the sound of their base genre (metal) than Radiohead gives of alt. rock. Therefore, Radiohead is putting more of the experimental part into their music. But not much more.

BTW- Sure they are more original. But if you were to ask me which was better, Aenima/Lateralus or KidA/Amnesiac, I'd say the Tool albums. OK Comp. however is the best album of all of them.

I really think Tool are one of the worst bands in existence.

*cries* But hey, that's taste.

i want jared to review everything by everyone this way

so far he gets six points

Jared Hecht has quite literally blinded me with science.

I think Jared should grade some of the freestyles in the Jay-Z/Nas throwdown thread.

Oh well, my post was ridiculous anyway. I'm just an equal fan of both bands, and really couldn't decide myself, so I just put out my opinion on certain non-important parts of their abilities. And Mel, you really shouldn't judge a band like that, you should just say that you aren't in to them. There is no way to decide, it is just opinion.

I'm not into Limp Bizkit. It sounds much more mature that "Limp Bizkit sucks" or "LB is one of the worst bands to grace the earth."

I'm not into rap, but if I had to give it to one of the rappers blindly, I'd say Jay-Z. Why? The thoughts that take place in my head are far to complicated for mortal comprehension. It'd blow your head up. Just like Dogma.

Maynard's lyrics are brilliant? I can't get my head around that one.

Some.

Look up his lyrics for APC songs (other than Judith) or some Tool songs (though most of his Tool lyrics aren't that good)

There is a song on "Undertow" in which Maynard James Keenan sings "Do unto others what has been done to me" and it reminds me of a vindictive Family Circus.

Maynard James Keenan is a name that would fit perfectly on Harry Smith's Folk Anthology, right next to the vastly superior (in tone and in title) Bascom Lamar Lunsford.

But he's also turned out beautiful pieces aswell. "threw you the obvious and you flew with it on your back a name in your recollection down among a million same", "my reflection wraps and pulls me under healing waters to be bathed in breña guides me safely in worlds i've never been to heal me heal me my dear breña" (that song one him best lyricist of the year for the WWRA), "humbled and helpless learning to pray praying for visions to show me the way show me the way to forgive you allow me to let it go allow me to be forgiven and show me the way to let go illuminate me i'm just praying for you to show me where i'm to begin hoping to reconnect to you". See, he can be on or off.

Jared, stop making me not worry that I've never gotten around to listening to Tool!

Don't worry, Clarke.

See, Josh that is what I'm talkin about. For all you know he could end up liking Tool.

Heck, I don't like Slipknot's music, but should I stop someone from dling a song real quick to see if they like it? Hell no. They might end up liking it.

Right, that's exactly what I have in mind.

Anyway I used to like Tool so it's not like I'm totally basing my opinion on not wanting Clarke to be more like Ned. (!) I'd rather just listen to my King Crimson CDs now.

not wanting Clarke to be more like Ned

Hey now. ;-) Besides, I thought Clarke already had some King Crimson around, so why shouldn't he check out one of the band's followers? And David Sylvian's Gone to Earth while he's at it. ;-)

Clarke: don't fret. If you want to hear them, you will.

Actually, yeah, I have Red and Starless and Bible Black, and I love them both quite a bit. However, I found Beat on vinyl for a buck the other day, and it frankly scares me - more than a little.

And the only reason I'm like Ned is because he's willed me the Raggettstacks.

musn't say I like beat... I'll drive clarke further away...

Those Raggettstacks, lemme tell ya. Beat is a good album, I agree with Josh. What don't you like about it, Clarke?

Well, I'm sure I need to listen more, but Belew's vocals made me feel kinda strange.

Ah, but strange in what way, my friend?

Like, not like, sexthually arouthed or anything... hold on, lemme put it on the table... (damn you for making me take off Nowhere)...

I do like his guitar playing, but I wish the instruments were looser like the 70s stuff - I think I like my prog bearded rather than bespectacled. His voice is so damn strident and, um, passionate - does he want to eat me?

Well, are you worth the eating? Er, don't answer that.

damn you for making me take off Nowhere

Don't blame me for your lack of self-control. Should I mention I saw Ride three times and...

yeah ned but should i mention that i fucked your girl?

What do you (and you, Josh) like about Beat? Do you prefer it to the 70s stuff?

Shit, the joke in my first line was totally ruined - GREENSPUN SWALLOWED MY ETHAN ENDTAG!

I wouldn't mind hearing what it is that people actually dislike about Tool. Like Jared I find them both more moving and more engaging in terms of what they do with their instruments and song structure.

BTW, I listen to Tool more than KC but I only have one album by each band and they sound nothing alike. So far I still like Yes and Rush more than KC. Nothing I've heard by Tool reminds of Pink Floyd either.

You'll hear it after a while, on Aenima and Lateralus.

stupidity, utter stupidity, both bands are good, but they are different enough that comparison is both unwarranted but also unintelligient, much like Bush's environmental stances.

"only you can prevent trees......"

idiot.

idiots.

I changed my mind since then. I've been totally burnt out on Lateralus for at least six months while I keep finding Kid A more and more impressive. Both had a good song or two in the 90s so I guess Radiohead is winning now.

Also I put on In the Court Of the Crimson King the other day and couldn't get into it at all.

For me, Radiohead win 13-4, but then I gave them extra points because I'm not keen on prog-metal.

Has anyone mentioned how boring, repetitive and completely non-innovative tool are? their played-out gimmicks were enough to keep me listening when i was 13 or so, but jesus... it seems like any song they've made since aenima could just as easily have been on any of the albums they've released and no one would have noticed... there's no coherence and no progression on their albums... in fact, i contend that their music is regressive... they seem more interested in creating an image in spin and similar media than in making music...

radiohead, on the other hand, are the antithesis to what i've just described...

you don't like stuff that you were listening to when you were 13! a shockah that.

radiohead are basically U2. snap out of it!

Julio, have you heard Kid A?

Or U2?

Tool is way more fun to listen to than Radiohead, at least for me. Radiohead are probably more innovative and have a more diverse range of sounds and etc etc, but I just can't find any way to actually enjoy their music. I think their early poppier stuff is boring, and I'd rather listen to Autechre/Aphex/Neu/Faust/etc/etc/etc than listen to Radiohead's new stuff.

Tool play moderately recycled prog and metal, but they're good at it.

sundar- yes but not as much as you I'm sure.

john- enough to make the link.

Didn't Maynard completely lift a couple of lyrics in Laterlus from OK Computer? "We hope that you choke"...I think it was, and one more I can't be bothered to look up.

I might be wrong, though.

Julio, could you expand on the link then? I can easily see why "Fake Plastic Trees" or "High and Dry" are U2-ish but not "Everything In Its Right Place" or "Idioteque".

*shrugs at this whole silly thread and thinks the bands are too different to compare, and that only someone who reads Q Magazine would think to do it*

both bands have had their moments and their crappy songs/albums, but on the whole Radiohead wins out.

Tool-
Opiate- forgettable
Undertow- great album, but not seminal like OK Computer
Aenima- basically a continuation of Undertow
Lateralus- has some excellent moments (The Grudge, Schism, and then some crappy moments (Ticks and Leeches). And the overblown Third Eye.

I must also mention Tool has a kickass drummer.

Radiohead-
Pablo Honey- mostly forgettable, like Opiate, but they do have the overplayed "Creep"...
The Bends- decent record, yes, it sounds quite U2-ish. I'm not a big fan of most of the songs here, such as The Bends, High and Dry... Street Spirit is very well done though.
OK Computer- one of the great albums of the decade. Paranoid Android, Let Down, Airbag...
Kid A- not a big fan of Kid A, or its b-sides companion,
Amnesiac- Kid A-.

Third Eye is on Aenima, but you're right about the drummer.

Aphex Twin's drummer totally kicks Danny's ass, and Squarepusher's bassist is way tighter than Chancellor, so those arguments are dumb like Maynard's phone messages

Thom Yorke was insufferably boring when he appeared on Space Ghost Coast to Coast, so Radiohead = not interested thx. Plus I don't know how you can make a cartoon music video dull and depressing but they sure as hell did

I have no reason to purchase any recordings by either band since I am always going to be surrounded by people who play their albums constantly at high volume until I become so fatigued by their respective styles that I seek out chart hip hop as a healing salve

However, given that I can objectively state that I have no real use for either band, I will side with Radiohead, because heavily technical metal music always reminded me of Phish/Flecktones type poop where the fans sit around and talk about what so-and-so is doing during this part of the song with his banjo or his cowbell or his double bass pedal or what the fuck ever. If I talked that way while listening to a turntablist album I'd get punched.

That's cuz TURNTABLES AREN'T REAL INSTRUMENTS!!! Hee hee hee!