Taking Sides: Shostakovich vs. Copland

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Gotta serve somebody I guess

― dave q, Sunday, 21 April 2002 00:00 (twenty-three years ago)

Or: Shostakovich vs. Hindemith vs. Herbert von Karajan

― dave q, Sunday, 21 April 2002 00:00 (twenty-three years ago)

dave yr way too smart to be hanging around here.

― jess, Sunday, 21 April 2002 00:00 (twenty-three years ago)

I think he's losing his touch.

― Michael Jones, Sunday, 21 April 2002 00:00 (twenty-three years ago)

How about making an attempt at answering the question?

― dave q, Monday, 22 April 2002 00:00 (twenty-three years ago)

That's surely no longer the point.

― Michael Jones, Monday, 22 April 2002 00:00 (twenty-three years ago)

Shostakovich hands downs, 4th 5th and 7th are fabulous

― Major Alfonso, Monday, 22 April 2002 00:00 (twenty-three years ago)

ELP nevah covered no shostakovich (janacek, now, THERE'S a composer)

― mark s, Monday, 22 April 2002 00:00 (twenty-three years ago)

Shostakovich, but Copeland's "In The Beginning" is genius.

― Dan Perry, Monday, 22 April 2002 00:00 (twenty-three years ago)

Copland is the biggest piece of shit ever......'Rodeo'?????? Come on.

I can't claim to be thoroughly versed in Shostakovich (which symphony commemorated the 1912 uprising??), but I'll still take him over stupid fucking Copland. He's why 'concert bands' exist.

― Patrick J. Flynn, Monday, 22 April 2002 00:00 (twenty-three years ago)

Have you even heard "In The Beginning"?

― Dan Perry, Monday, 22 April 2002 00:00 (twenty-three years ago)

Hindemith beats them both -- though "Rodeo" notwithstanding, Copland gets a bad rap. His "Quiet City" is greatness. Also, if Copland is the reason concert bands exist (which he isn't), then Shostakovich must be the reason jazz bands exist. Or, possibly Stravinsky.

― dleone, Monday, 22 April 2002 00:00 (twenty-three years ago)

Actually I was thinking more about the politics

― dave q, Tuesday, 23 April 2002 00:00 (twenty-three years ago)

Seems like both reputations were probably enhanced by nationalism. Are there analogous examples of this in pop music?

― briania, Tuesday, 23 April 2002 00:00 (twenty-three years ago)

Are there analogous examples of this in pop music?

"Born in the USA" made Bruce Springsteen Captain America, though I think if a lot of people had listened to lyrics other than the chorus they'd have thought twice. U2-Ireland connection? U2 vs Boss for maximum mythical power of rock?

― dleone, Tuesday, 23 April 2002 00:00 (twenty-three years ago)

i liked the soundtrack to the equalizer

― bob snoom, Wednesday, 24 April 2002 00:00 (twenty-three years ago)

Dave, what's Copland's political deal (i.e. how does he compare to the way Shostakovich was pressed by the Soviets)? I'm too ignorant to answer your question!

― Josh, Thursday, 25 April 2002 00:00 (twenty-three years ago)

Shostakovich is one of those composers I should like -- modernist without calling attention to itself, melancholic lyricism, plus an interesting life story -- but I've never really warmed up to his music. As far as 20th century Russian composers go, it's Prokofiev, Stravinsky, and Schnittke that have gotten my ear.

Aaron Copland -- haven't really heard enough to have an informed opinion. I like Charles Ives, though, but of course I'd say that.

― Tadeusz Suchodolski, Thursday, 25 April 2002 00:00 (twenty-three years ago)

Copland, alas. Shostakovich was a sellout who served the prevailing winds; if Ives is the model of integrity, serving no master except himself, then Shostakovich was the opposite, serving every vision except his own (with the exception being Lady Macbeth of Mtensk - and look where that got him!). It's hard to criticise a guy for compromising his aesthetics when his life is at stake, but Shostakovich seemed strangely willing to play the game (compare him to Profokiev, or Eisenstein to name someone in another field); plus he was selling out on the Socialist Realism tip long after Stalin gave up the ghost. He made a late bid for redemption with Babi Yar, but all in all, his talent, and hence the work, is severly compromised. Copland on the other hand, seems to have been a stand-up guy, much more radical and avant-gardist in everyday life than in his work, where he's always struck me as a bastard child of Bartok and Sousa (Folk! With Bombast!), but he seems to have followed no muse but his own. Of course the argument could be made that integrity is a luxury of freedom, but I'm not going to make it. Neverminding the personal politics, and focusing on the music - Shostakovich, in a cake walk.

― J Blount, Thursday, 25 April 2002 00:00 (twenty-three years ago)

Integrity is a luxury of freedom.

And anyway, I thought the evidence was not clear on how much Shostakovich gave in. I mean, he reworked Lady MacBeth, wrote some nationalistic type stuff, but also wrote a lot for the drawer, flirted with frowned-upon atonal music (sometimes writing using say 12-tone methods but with results that were not as complainable about apparently), etc.

And anyway, THEY KILLED PEOPLE THAT PISSED THEM OFF. THERE WERE CRAZY PEOPLE IN POWER at times too.

― Josh, Thursday, 25 April 2002 00:00 (twenty-three years ago)

Have you tried the quartets, Tadeusz? I like 14 and 15.

― Josh, Thursday, 25 April 2002 00:00 (twenty-three years ago)

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