The 12th P&J Singles Poll!

Wow, there isn't anything on the list less than okay (Ice Cube, En Vogue; never heard the World Praty, don't want to). "Hippychick" in the Top Ten! (my introduction to the Smiths).

I'll agree with the voters for once: "Groove is in the Heart" is damn near flawless, still sounds fresh, and is the only wedding party jam that's not embarrassing.

Missing:

Electronic, "Getting Away With It"
Lisa Stansfield, "This is the Right Time"
A whole raft of New Jack Swing (Ralph Tresvant's "Sensitivity" and Johnny Gill's "Rub You The Right Way" for starters)

I could probably get along just fine without ever having to hear "Epic" again, but otherwie yer right.

Digital Underground, Soho, B-52s, or Billy Idol would get my vote. More than half of the list does nothing for me, though.

I could probably get along just fine without ever having to hear "Epic" again

Heh heh, I'm voting for "Epic"! It earns its title. Greatest lament for that unattainable and unidentifiable nothing-in-particular since "Why Can't I Touch It?" I'm told it had a pretty cool video as well (which I don't believe I ever saw in full.)

Oh definitely--I'm just sick to death of it is all.

I should add Bell Biv Devo to my short list, and Sonic Youth.

also, I just realized (duh) the bottom five or ten (?) are videos, right? I was kind of wondering how "do the bartman" made it.

Yeah, I like to add the video choices for variety (and laughs).

Humpty Dance

(other picks: Groove is in the Heart, The Power, 911 is a Joke, Poison, Been Caught Stealin)

good year

there isn't anything on the list less than okay

Ha - I'd say there's almost nothing on the list more than okay!

Probably the least exciting Pazz & Jop singles up to this point. I guess I'll go with "The Power," and opt for the version I actually remember (haven't heard the Chill Rob G one in eons.) "Roam" and "Poison" would be runnersup, I guess. Beyond that, big deal... some okay stuff, a boatload of shitty stuff. Though I did do the humpty dance at my wife's high school reunion last month.

PICTURES, PLEEZE

Well, I don't have the nose for it, really.

Anyway, I guess what I mean is that, from Dee-Lite to Faith No More to Jane's Addiction to Sinead to Digital Underground to both Public Enemies and both Madonnas on down, there are tons of songs here that I find as annoying as I do loveable; they almost all sound like they're trying too hard or something. (I'll acknowledge that "Justify My Love," at least, is probably pretty great. Hadn't noticed that one before, actually. But that doesn't mean I'd ever vote for it.)

See, "Justify My Love" is the one Madonna song of the era that really tries to rub its cooter in your face. It's about as erotic as "Sexy MF."
Meanwhile I heard "Vogue" a few weeks ago and was newly impressed by how lean it sounded.

You really find "Groove is in the Heart" annoying?

It may be partly nostalgia and the fact that these are tunes that I heard a lot of at the right time, but to me this looks like a bumper crop of party jams. It comes down to Dee-Lite and the Humpty Dance for me, but "Roam" is also pretty great for late-period B-52s.

Oh and "Poison" too - I just realized which song that is.

Hell yeah I find "Groove is in the Heart" annoying. Always have. It's like an "idea" of disco or something, by people who never seem to have actually listened to any. The vocal by Lady Miss Keir or whatever her name is completly ridiculous, and not in a good way.

It's like, I don't know, the disco equivalent of whatever the Fleshtones were to garage rock.

The kids have just picked up on "Grove is in the heart" and can do a fairly faithful acapella version in the car.

I'm going with "Everybody Everybody," one of my (only) favorite house songs ever. I remember that being everywhere at the time, but I could say the same for a lot of these songs.

(If I were voting for videos, I would go with "Love's Gonna Getcha (Material Love)".)

(This was the era of Video Jukebox for me: 1989-1991.)

It's like an "idea" of disco or something, by people who never seem to have actually listened to any

This is absolutely true but... that's part of the song's charm. There's something kind of corny and self-conscious about it - kind of "Look at me, I'm disco dancing" - which is probably why it appeals so much to two-left-footed, nerdy college students everywhere. But anyone who can unironically appreciate ABBA should have no problem with Deee-lite.

It's like an "idea" of disco or something, by people who never seem to have actually listened to any

Damn, I'm busy at work right now and can't really go into this, but no, Chuck, it's not true at all. I'm a little sick of the tune myself, which is why I didn't mention it, but I completely disagree with this idea that Deee-lite are somehow dancefloor klutzes or something. I've played that song at probaly 80 weddings, and no one has EVER had difficulty appreciating the groove, incl. lots of older folks who don't know or care anything about where all this stuff comes from, what era it is, etc. Also, you've pushed an idea lot in your own writing, Chuck--which has influenced me a lot, and which I've always agreed with--that disco is capable (moreso than many other genres) of bringing as much in as possible, anyone can wear disco and get away with it, etc. (I mean, you obviously said it more eloquently than that)--so why does the buck stop at arty types like Deee-Lite? Anyway, my main point is that, "Groove is in the Heart" is a great dance record, it's no more an "ideas" record than "Hot Stuff" or anything else.

Still hits me as clutzy and heavy-handed and a dumb inside joke, no matter how many people dance to it as weddings. (And I like lots of arty types doing disco. And even some clutzes! Plus, disco was pretty arty to begin with.) Don't get the ABBA connection at all, though. (And for whatever it's worth -- doesn't mean he and I are right and everybody else is wrong, but he does know his disco -- Michael Freedberg hates the record, too. Or at least at the time he did.)

When I said the song appeals to "two left foot" types, I didn't mean to imply that the band themselves are "klutzes". Rhythmically, the song is tight as a drum - with a great Bootsy Collins bassline holding down the low end. It's the Euro-cheezy vocals and shameless pop appeal that make it sound like a Day-glo plastic version of disco - which as I said before, is not a bad thing in my book - and is why I bring in ABBA (who got their start on Eurovision, where "Groove is in the Heart" would fit right in.)

That slide-whistle-sounding thing makes it. Never thought about it before, but the (Parliament?) bassline on "Humpty Dance" has a similar seesaw thing going, just as musicallyl funny.

(And yes, I know Deee-lite are from NYC, not Europe (well, except the one guy who was from the Ukraine, I guess), but it's a shared sensibility I'm speaking of.)

fine, the wedding thing is a red herring, at least insofar as convincing anyone it's a good record (I dislike lots of records I play at weddings, in fact), but that Fleshtones comparison makes me cringe for some reason, though I don't quite know why. Anyway, if Michael Freedberg hates it I guess that's good enough for me.

I absolutely can't choose just one of this line-up. 1990 absolutely killed it.

That said, I sort of agree with Chuck that "Groove is in the Heart" is a tad on the academic side. Still great, obv, but I'd probably vote for Black Box or even "Vogue" over it for purely political reasons.

1990 absolutely killed it.

Seriously. I finally forced myself to choose between "Groove is in the Heart", "The Humpty Dance", and "Welcome to the Terrordome", going for DU. And then there's at least ten more songs that are great.

xhuxk, why do hate......

Missing:

A whole raft of New Jack Swing (Ralph Tresvant's "Sensitivity" ...

Had this managed to chart, it probably would've gotten my vote.

It's like, I don't know, the disco equivalent of whatever the Fleshtones were to garage rock.

Christ, xhuxk--that's gotta be the most damning thing I've ever read by you! (either that, or maybe it just means that I don't happen to care much for the Fleshtones?)

(Some favorite salsa CDs from 1990: Grupo Niche - Cielo de Tambores, El Gran Combo - Poniendo el Grito en el Cielo, Tito Nieves - Dejame Vivir, Gilberto Santa Rosa - Perdóname.)

(I mean SINGLES!)

My vote goes to Power Jam Featuring Chill Rob G: "The Power," the (slightly) better of the two powers.

M.I.A.:

MC Lyte: "Capuccino" (First Priority 1990) - Although now I suspect this works better as an album track.

Sand Party: "Lambada Festival" (Worldbeat 1990) - Thanx to Ebay, I finally found out that this fabulous Latin-world-disco medley came out on Worldbeat Records which seems to have been a division of Hot Records in Miami. Makes sense since I first heard this on one of their Gay Classics collections. The (hideous, worst ever) liner notes claim Jon Secada sang on it (presumably in the cheesy chorus that strings the songs together). Includes the following hits:
Lambada
Ye Ke Ye Ke
Capital Tropical
Don't Let Me Be Misunderstood
Kalimba de Luna
La Isla Bonita
Bamboleo
Conga
Vamos a la Playa

Crystal Waters: "Makin' Happy" (Mercury 1990) - A much better and quirkier song than "Gypsy Woman (She's Homeless)." And I'm still not 100% certain what it's about. Makin' happy is obviously fucking. But the second verse gets disturbing. You just couldn't put up a fight (even a silly one)? You're in the tub, scrub-a-scrubin? Is it about rape now? Or masturbation? Or...?

Shazzy: "Giggahoe" (Elektra 1990) - One of the many reasons why Xgau was put on earth. The only bad thing I can say about this is that I used "suck my butt with a thousand crazy straws" once as a dis and it backfired (dude responded with something like "I'd NEED a thousand crazy straws for a butt like yours!").

Lonnie Gordon: "Gonna Catch You" (SBK 1990) - The well-made, dependable house music song (as opposed to track, say) is an underrated thing. Vanilla Ice apparently thought so too cuz he put it in his movie.

So "Makin' Happy" was released before "Gypsy Woman"? I heard "Makin' Happy" in clubs, like, late summer '91 for the first time.

Oh shit - it IS 1991. Oh well, slot it in for the next singles poll.

a 3rd vote in spirit to Sensitivity, i'd rather not even vote proper this list is so good. it's between Sinead and 911 is a joke, which I remember taping off Yo! and memorizing in one night.

Xgau's list:

Singles

Boogie Down Productions: "Love's Gonna Getcha (Material Love)" (Jive)
Quincy Jones: "Back on the Block" (Qwest)
MC Hammer: "U Can't Touch This" (Capitol)
The B-52's: "Roam" (Sire/Warner Bros.)
Shazzy: "Giggahoe" (Elektra)
Poor Righteous Teachers: "Can I Start This" (Profile)
Power Jam Featuring Chill Rob G: "The Power" (Wild Pitch)
Snap: "The Power" (Arista)
Rebel MC: "Music Is the Key" (Desire import)
Black Box: "Everybody Everybody" (Deconstruction)
Digital Underground: "The Humpty Dance" (Tommy Boy)
Kaoma: "Lambada" (Epic)
2 Black 2 Strong: "Burn Baby Burn" (Clappers/In-Effect)
Madonna: "Justify My Love" (Sire/Warner Bros.)
DNA Featuring Suzanne Vega: "Tom's Diner" (A&M)
Snap: "Ooops Up" (Arista)
A Tribe Called Quest: "Bonita Applebum" (Jive)
Tony! Toni! Toné!: "Feels Good" (Wing)
BWP: "Two Minute Brother" (No Face/Columbia)
Bette Midler: "From a Distance" (Atlantic)

It's like, I don't know, the disco equivalent of whatever the Fleshtones were to garage rock.

This is a great line regardless of its veracity. But I do think there's some truth to it. The tambourine-heavy groove is dinkier than most disco/house ever gets. Even the drums that introduce Q-Tip's rap lean more on snare than bass. So the heart of the song is not in the groove but rather all up top: "I couldn't ask (always thought she was saying "dance") for another;" the bass hook that really doesn't propel the song forward; that slide whistle. It's as if they cannily designed the song to sound better on the radio/MTV and at weddings than in clubs. Which, let's face it, as club kids rabid to break out of that ghetto, they did. So I can understand someone hearing this song as an idea about disco rather than the thing itself.

Still, on strictly pop terms, it works. I know positing a dichotomy between pop and disco or even house is dangerous. Donna Summer's songs were designed to be heard on the radio. In fact, she said it really loud on the radio. But her songs work equally well in clubs whereas "Groove..." feels comparatively wilted in that setting.

P.S. I just read the lyrics for the first time ever. They make no sense. And I always thought (wished?) Q-Tip was saying "All is sodomy, art especially."

Always thought this had to do with a "gun":

Satisfaction when we're done
Satisfaction of what's to come

And always hated hated hated this:

My supperdish, my succotash wish

As for the vocal, despite what O.Nate says above, it's always felt to me more like "Love Shack" than like Europop. Except this Fred Schneider is a girl. (Whereas in the Fleshtones' case, they always hit me as a whole band of Fred Schneiders, for some reason.)

What the hell IS this song about? What does it mean to have groove in the heart anyway?

Kevin, your "Groove" critique above makes a lot of sense to me, and you may be right--the song works best on "strictly pop terms." I don't really hear any dance music from a clubber's perspective--I don't spend time in dance clubs, though I used to DJ in really mainstream ones--but your explanation about the "heart of the song" being "not in the groove" but up top sounds about right.

And yeah, I probably do hear a little bit of B-52s in there as well, but still have no idea why it's an "ideas" dance record any more than any other dance record has or is about "ideas."

I guess I just mean it seems like "disco" between quote marks to me? Though that may not be all that clear either. (I'm not definitely not saying it has better ideas than lots of disco. It doesn't.)

A good contrast, actually, might be "Genius of Love" by the Tom Tom Club, which seems to me just as much "dance," "disco," "funk" between inverted commas. But I have always loved "Genius of Love." So maybe all I'm saying is Dee-Lite don't pull it off. (Maybe one thing both of those have in common is a certain allegiance to P-Funk long after P-Funk had fallen into cultdom, and out of pop-hitdom, for what that's worth. "Humpty Dance" has that too, actually.)

So maybe what I'm saying is that, to me, there has always seemed to be something condescending about "Groove is In The Heart" -- like, you know, "disco has stupid words, so let's sing about succotash wishes and throw in other words that don't make any sense." Except what's truly stupid about that, of course, is that great disco music doesn't have stupid words, or at least doesn't make such a show of it. ("Who needs to think when your feet just go?," the TTClub asked. But people don't really stop thinking when their feet are going. So yeah, "Genius of Love" was condescending too, but I like it. So condescension -- which admittely, might just be imagined on my part; I can't read Dee-Lite's minds! -- is only part of the problem.)

It also seems really really detached and emotionless to me, for whatever that's worth. (Though I voted for "The Power"! How emotional is that? Well, its vocals are emotional maybe. They're sure not cold.)

Also, btw, I probably go to dance clubs even less often than Scott does. So my problem with Dee-Lite is definitely not that "it wouldn't sound good in a club." I've never made that distinction, anyway. It's just not a good pop record, to my ears; if it was, I'm sure it'd sound fine in a club to me.

I sort of hear Chuck's point about the song being "condescending." "Genius of Love" is a good comparison, too (and I also like it a lot better). I think one of the things I like about the Deee-Lite song (which I would guess is precisely what some people don't like) is that it does the rubbery P-funk thing in a more disco context than P-Funk ever did.

I mean a more formally disco context.

Last point here is that almost everything negative said about the Deee-Lite song above for me applies tenfold to "Vogue," a dance song I have never ever gotten into, despite seeing with my own eyes on many occasions how well it works on the dance floor.

I still just think "Vogue" sounds like a cold piece of shit.

"Vogue" was fun to imitate at home though, while watching the video.

What makes "Groove" disco, specifically? It strikes me more as pop-funk (which I prefer to disco anyways, I love "The Humpty Dance" and "Genius of Love", too.)

I should also say that "Groove" has never struck me as disingenuous. I don't know where you're getting that from.

Armond White has some interesting (and infuriating) ideas about "Vogue."

a handful of professional music critics did not hear 10 singles in 1990 that were better than "Do The Bartman"

Automatic thread bump. This poll is closing tomorrow.

What makes "Groove" disco, specifically?

I don't know, the fact that it's a pretty straight up 4/4 beat with lots of sizzly snares clocked at 121 BPMs? And that it mixes in well with just about any other disco or house track? And that people in discos around the world dance to it? I think it is pop-funk, too, but it's a little faster than most funk, probably a little less polyrhythmic (though it's definitely not devoid of polyrhythms, obviously). It sounds to me more like disco absorbing funk than like funk itself, though the Bootsy element confuses matters, certainly.

To me, "Hold On" was the first sign that year of hip hop fattening and funking Top 40's low end (along with funk reissues, Soul II Soul, bass boosts on boom boxes, etc.), and then along came "Groove" with its nods to Bootsy and Tribe, hip-hop- (and go-go!-) style samples, that gurgle of a vocal, lyrics (whatever) redeemed by the high "I," and a funky-as-hell top, middle, bottom, side--are we listening to the same record? But yeah, I guess I was no disco head, and liked "Hippychick" and "Everybody Everybody" fine but thought "Vogue" and "Power" were cheesy. Maybe I was enjoying a disdainful novelty song without knowing it--it's happened before.

xxxpost, I should say

I'm surprised "Everybody Everybody" charted so high ("Strike It Up" and "Ride on Time" are superior anyway).

Amen, sister!

So my problem with Dee-Lite is definitely not that "it wouldn't sound good in a club."

Well, I did say it sounded good in a club. Just not as good as disco's poppiest variants (e.g. radio-ready Donna Summer).

Again, I do like the song. But whenever it comes on at a club (which is/was a lot), it always thinned out the mix if not the dancefloor.

And it is detached. But then again, so is "Genius of Love." It's been good to compare these two songs. Why would "Genius of Love" work so much better than "Groove Is In The Heart" if both share so many of the same qualities? Because for all their professed love of groove, Deee-Lite has never come up with a funk riff as infinitely renewable as the one underpinning "Genius of Love." Pop, funk, or disco, slice the top(s) off of "Groove Is In The Heart" and you ain't got much to work with.

Fwiw: I've always preferred "Wordy Rappinghood" and Mariah's "Fantasy" to "Genius of Love."

"Everybody Everybody" is great, and it was Everywhere, Everywhere at the time, from what I remember.

Definitely some more mia hip-hop singles nobody has mentioned (notably including "Let the Rhythm Hit Em"). There must have been some worthwhile things in the 5%er mode as well.

Automatic thread bump. This poll's results are now in.

No surprises.

a handful of professional music critics did not hear 10 singles in 1990 that were better than "Do The Bartman"

The Simpsons: "Do the Bartman" (Brad Bird) = Video choice (not single) = Anthony Is Wrong

I've spent lots of time in dance clubs. "Groove" sounds great in them, in pretty much the same way it does elsewhere. Thins out the mix? Somewhat. But not so much that it affects its power any. Its effervescence is basic and obvious and has no quotes around it. (The reason they wrote lyrics like "succotash wish," Chuck, is that they wrote lyrics like that ON EVERY SONG! Frankly they don't seem like they could have been doing a pisstake on disco simply because they didn't have it in them.)

Sanity at last!