Taking Sides: ABC vs. Culture Club

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Inspired by the 'memorable reviews' thread - an old NME one that went "Boy George has more soul in his little finger than Martin Fry has in his entire body" - and while I'm not a fan of CC (that HORRIBLE excuse for a chorus in "Karma Chameleon" tore it), I'd have to agree. Songs that were even worse than you remember? "That Was Then" made an unwelcome appearance and it went straight to the top of my personal list of Worst Songs Ever Recorded. Everything about it is just...wrong. Starting with his voice! Was "I am a punk etc." an excuse? (Also the way that crap saxophone enters whenever Fry runs out of words). As for 'Lexicon', why did he sound constipated and late for a train all the time? Oh I get it, it wasn't 'real' soul, as the stagy cover is supposed to 'let on', same with the 'cleverly' stolen song titles. I honestly think that the deification of this bleating empty souffle of second-hand signifiers ineptly assembled was due to reverse media provincialism. "Wow, people from Sheffield come up with clever transparent concepts too! We're so proud of them! See, look what these destitute peasants come up with when they're not fucking around with blips and bleeps and cement-mixer noises!" Strangely enough, the far superior (sonically at least) Def Leppard never got as much props! Then again, Joe Elliot can't sing either, and neither can Jarvis Cocker and neither could Joe Cocker either for that matter. Although if they could they wouldn't waste their comical pipes on tragicomic entryist desperation like "When Smokey Sings". What's so great about Smokey, Martin? He can sing better than you and write lyrics occasionally? OK Yorkshiremen defend your honour

― dave q, Monday, 22 April 2002 00:00 (twenty-three years ago)

I won't bother defending the relevance of attacking such an long-dead outfit. Haven't you ever just woken up and decided you hated something?

― dave q, Monday, 22 April 2002 00:00 (twenty-three years ago)

You are a turd.

― Dr. C, Monday, 22 April 2002 00:00 (twenty-three years ago)

Come on, Dr.C, there is at least an argument that your testimony to All Of My Heart and this rant are the two best posts on ILM this year. Me? Not having heard "Lexicon" ever*, and no ABC at all for 20 years, I'm staying out of it.

(*I intend to put this right ere long)

― , Monday, 22 April 2002 00:00 (twenty-three years ago)

I never saw the other thread, honest!

― dave q, Monday, 22 April 2002 00:00 (twenty-three years ago)

Can we reprint both on FT?

I need a Culture Club best-of.

I also - amazingly - woke up and hated the Lexicon of Love a few years ago, but then I put it on again and loved it. Empty signifiers? Yeah but all the best soul is empty-ish signifiers anyway (soul is the root of why muppet lyric-sheet readers complain about 'love songs' all the time, after all).

― Tom, Monday, 22 April 2002 00:00 (twenty-three years ago)

Yes, by means put mine on FT, Tom.

There are no more empty or empty-ish signifiers in Soul than in any other genre.

― Dr. C, Monday, 22 April 2002 00:00 (twenty-three years ago)

Wel I dont know, they're empty in a good way, like the squares in a colouring book.

― Tom, Monday, 22 April 2002 00:00 (twenty-three years ago)

The Lexicon of Love was about drama and sweeping tunes, rather than any notion of soul, which is a woolly and trite concept at the best of times. 'An empty souffle of second-hand signifiers?' It was pop music with style and panache. OK Martin Fry's voice. I'll grant you that he's no vocal genius, but he certainly knew how to whisper! I love the way he says, that is, 'says,' Maybe some day Martin you'll find true love... Oh come on. It's fun and, for chart pop, it's amazingly witty.

― Daniel, Monday, 22 April 2002 00:00 (twenty-three years ago)

I freely admit hating the "HIP HIP HOOORAY...YIPPIE-YI-YIPPIE-YI-AYAYAYAY!" part when young. Now I think it's sorta sweet. ABC in America -- "Punk? What is punk? Radio hits! Yay!"

― Ned Raggett, Monday, 22 April 2002 00:00 (twenty-three years ago)

Lexicon Of Love is still one of the great albums - it's gloriously beautiful dance-pop. And Smokey Robinson had one of the sweetest voices and wrote some of the loveliest songs ever. Boy George was more soulful than Martin Fry, but that's not all there is to making great music. And George's lyrics - "War is stupid and people are stupid" is not one of the great protest messages. And Jarvis Cocker is one of the great pop singers, for me. I don't seem to agree with much that Dave Q is saying!

― Martin Skidmore, Monday, 22 April 2002 00:00 (twenty-three years ago)

one year passes...

Just wondering, considering "this everchanging world in which we live in", what do ppl think of the "War Song" lyrics now?

― dave q, Thursday, 18 September 2003 08:42 (twenty-two years ago)

Still crap.

― Alex in NYC (vassifer), Thursday, 18 September 2003 21:22 (twenty-two years ago)

"The War Song" is fantastic if only for its immature bluntness. "War is stupid/And PEOPLE ARE STUPID": DAMN SKIPPY GEORGE now if you'd gone on to describe how you wanted to gouge out everyone's eyes and piss in the bleeding sockets, it would have been the greatest song ever.

― Dan Perry (Dan Perry), Thursday, 18 September 2003 21:31 (twenty-two years ago)

Alternately, Ogre could have just asked if you really wanted to hurt him.

― Ned Raggett (Ned), Thursday, 18 September 2003 22:52 (twenty-two years ago)

ogre? from 'revenge of the nerds'?

― cinniblount (James Blount), Thursday, 18 September 2003 22:55 (twenty-two years ago)

Dude I totally love "Poison Arrow."

― J (Jay), Thursday, 18 September 2003 22:56 (twenty-two years ago)

abc > culture club (even though I am a sucker for a harmonica in a non-blues context)

― cinniblount (James Blount), Thursday, 18 September 2003 23:00 (twenty-two years ago)

I think colour by numbers was the third album I ever owned

― cinniblount (James Blount), Thursday, 18 September 2003 23:01 (twenty-two years ago)

ogre? from 'revenge of the nerds'?

Uh, no.

― Ned Raggett (Ned), Thursday, 18 September 2003 23:04 (twenty-two years ago)

"Poison Arrow" is purely twee and dated, but isn't that why you can blast it in the dark recesses of your room?

But dammit, "Do You Really....?" makes be jiggle, too. What other song can you gleefully boogie in your pajamas and that battered hat you're too ashamed to thrown into the incinerator?

(So I didn't pick a side. Give me 5 minutes.....)

― Nichole Graham (Nichole Graham), Thursday, 18 September 2003 23:04 (twenty-two years ago)

Somewhere along the line I downloaded the 12" mix of "Poison Arrow" and all the time I find myself singing "You think YOU'RE SMART . . . stupid, stupid!" and snapping my fingers.

― J (Jay), Thursday, 18 September 2003 23:10 (twenty-two years ago)

i remember "the war song," not just for that infamous chorus -- but also because it pissed off the youth leader of our church youth group, who was a hippie peacenik but somehow didn't like "faggots" or "the idea that boy george sings this song will make everyone think that people who don't like war are all sissies."

― Tad (llamasfur), Thursday, 18 September 2003 23:17 (twenty-two years ago)

oh, and culture club managed to churn out no small # of classics -- aforementioned "war song," "karma chameleon" (though that harmonica had to go), and above all "do you really want to hurt me" and "church of the poison mind." they had something on those early records.

― Tad (llamasfur), Thursday, 18 September 2003 23:19 (twenty-two years ago)

yeah, I'm not crazy about the harmonica on "karma chameleon", I was thinking more "church of the poison mind"

― cinniblount (James Blount), Thursday, 18 September 2003 23:22 (twenty-two years ago)

no way, the harmonica on karma chameleon rox!

― minna (minna), Friday, 19 September 2003 01:01 (twenty-two years ago)

a lil too bluesy

― cinniblount (James Blount), Friday, 19 September 2003 01:03 (twenty-two years ago)

It's so.... BLACK.

― Dan Perry (Dan Perry), Friday, 19 September 2003 01:07 (twenty-two years ago)

I like boy george and I cannot lie

― cinniblount (James Blount), Friday, 19 September 2003 01:10 (twenty-two years ago)

it's not too bluesy in the context of the song! just imagine how lessened and unfun the song would be by its absence.

i like both bands... abc are probably better but i arbitrarily like culture club more

― minna (minna), Friday, 19 September 2003 01:46 (twenty-two years ago)

I like both ABC and Culture Club, sure, but I adore ABC's The Lexicon of Love and think "Date Stamp" is one of the best songs of the early '80s, because it is so utterly catchy and poppy and the lyrics include the line, "Looking for a girl who meets supply with demand", which is one of the finest pop song lyrics ever penned IMHO. AND I love the whole backstory behind another great song off of the album, "Tears Are Not Enough". Besides, Martin Fry was a cutie! </teenybopper>

― Just Deanna (Dee the Lurker), Friday, 19 September 2003 01:54 (twenty-two years ago)

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