Article Response -- Tom on "Ms. Jackson" and more...

Also the biographies and lives of pop stars are hugely important to our love of pop but not to our love of pop songs. For example - discussion on this forum of Hear'Say almost none of which has mentioned the single or album (not a bad thing before anyone jumps in).

Except maybe there wasn't one. Sigh.

and this theme continues throughout the rest of the article, peaking with the condemnation of latter-day madonna because the songs are now patently about her.

so i guess i should add this little bit of bio-GRAPH-ical info: "ms. jackson" IS about andre, namely his breakup with erykah badu, and the song was intended for badu's mama, ms. wright. andre and badu have a child together so all of that about the baby is his assurance to ms. wright that he's going to be there when he needs to be, no matter what his relationship with her daughter. being british, you probably never heard about that over there, whereas it was fairly hyped on these shores. (badu's version of the relationship, "green eyes," is on her latest record, and it's a discursive, inscrutable thing, striving for "art" but never coming close to approaching "ms. jackson.")

not that that information detracts too much from your piece, it just found it amusing. it's a good piece, too, with a good closing line, but it strikes me as a little bare, unfinished, like it could use some more fleshing-out and elaboration. but perhaps that's what the book's for?

Yeah this stuff does need fleshing out, I agree.

Thank you. We did once have MTV in my country, in the 1980s I think, but I haven't seen it for ages; not sure it's still going. I do turn on the radio a great deal, but I'm usually immediately confronted by some hip-hop garbage, so I have to turn it straight off again.

Pop stars might afford some relief. They're emotionally distant, or if they get close, it's in a way that emphasizes shared experience - everyone is basically the same, we can all understand this and get through it together, etc. (I think Tom is saying something like this in the article.) With indie pop stars, and to a lesser extent, with rock stars, the songs are often about being on the fringe, being isolated, not being able to relate to others, or more commonly, the other way around. After a while, it might get uncomfortable.

I thought the point about pop icons was extremely interesting and would like to read more on the topic.

Is it possible to maintain distance while writing and singing about personal things? Nick Drake springs to mind.

I've heard the song, and I like it. I think I do because it seems personal, unlike most other chart pop. On the other hand, it's not isolating, like a lot of indie pop is.

Now with Madonna, it just might be that, personally, she has nothing interesting to say.

"I do turn on the radio a great deal, but I'm usually confronted by some hip-hop garbage"

Actually it is the domination of hip-hop and R&B which now makes daytime Radio 1 fairly listenable to me, certainly compared to five years ago when there seemed to be an Oasis track played every hour.

Fair enough. It is the domination of hip-hop and something that I would not call R&B which now makes daytime Radio 1 largely unlistenable to me.

I think the stereotypical topics covered in indie music, though - infatuation and alienation, let's say - are as near-universal as the themes pop covers.

To summarise: indiedentity politics.

Forever ever? Who cares? Shouldn't we be arguing for a redefinition of the criteria of big-A art?

I can see how it might be dangerous though, in that it's a way that the - ahem - rockists could say well we like this and this and this pop and the rest is worthless and throwaway just like we always said.

wtf @ me never ever hearing this song on the radio? Am I the only one? At the time this seemed like an instant radio classic, now I never hear it ever? Please tell me I can blame this on Spin South-West and it is not a broader radio affliction.

Want to feel old? Ms. Jackson’s grandkid is old enough to vote.

also read 2001 ilx