The 20th P&J Albums (and EPs) Poll!

I enjoy Sugar's record more than most Husker Du records (and most everything this list). The Pavement record isn't my favorite of theirs. So: tough call b/w Sugar and Erotica.

Erotica with a conviction I've never felt for any other vote so far.

Sugar was my fave album at the time so I'll go for that too. Pavement,Pearl jam,Faith No More, NIN close behind.

Also: if anyone would like to join me in hunting for every voter who put Arrested Development high on their list, please meet me at Kmart's gun section.

Dave Marsh to thread.

There have been worse winners than AD.

I voted for the live Mariah EP. It was an easy vote.

Not sure what else I'd even consider -- The Bikini Kill or Urge Overkill EP, maybe? Can barely even remember what's on them now, though. (Maybe I'd like En Vogue or Mary J Blige if I heard them now, though I've never been much of fan. Or Television's comeback record, if that's what that thing is? Or L7, who had one or two songs I liked once? Who knows.) (Oh wait -- Is that Soul Asylum album the one with "Runaway Train" and "Black Gold" etc on it? I liked those hits okay at the time too, I guess. Though now I only have their greatest hits CD. I still like Mariah from that time a lot more.)

Otherwise, what a weird list. I don't have the slightest idea what these are (more EPs, I assume?) Who the hell is John Trudell??:

John Trudell: AKA Graffiti Man (Rykodisc)
The Guild of Temporal Adventurers: Kendra Smith Presents the Guild of Temporal Adventurers (Fiasco)

Black 47 up there (another EP, right?) surprises me even more. Hack journeyman Irish-bar band from New York, I think. I have nothing against them; just had no idea that critics ever liked them at all. (Not that that many ciritics would have needed to like them to place them in the EP results, though, probably.)

As for Sugar, sorry guys -- I have even less use for them than I have for Arrested Development.

This is quite strange: as I was wondering what the hell I was going to vote for--seeing as this is probably my least favorite year for album releases ever--I unexpectedly happened to notice the Freedy Johnston record neatly sandwiched between the Leonard Cohen and Morrissey releases and, not really feeling any of the other competing albums for my vote (PJH, AD, SY, Madonna, etc.), I decided I'd go with that.

Still don't think it's anywhere near a perfect record as xgau seems to believe, though.

(and yes, Alfred, you can take aim and shoot me for my AD love--oh the shame of it)

Pavement for me. I also think I like the R.E.M. album (definitely like all the singles from it). I think I like the single from the Mariah EP (that's the Jackson 5 cover, right?), but don't know what else is even on it, I don't think. Don't know the AD album, either, but thought the first two singles were good. Doesn't seem like a deserving winner, but I've never quite understood the hate-on so many people seem to have for it. (And, Basehead aside maybe, I'm guessing I might prefer it to all the other hip-hop titles on the list.)

Yeah this is a pretty dire year for the ol' P&J, but there were a lot of great 1992 records that weren't fashionable enough for the crit radar. But I had no hesitation whatsoever in voting for En Vogue.

"Tennessee" is great, no buts about it, but woe upon that album.

I'm juggling back and forth between EV and MJB at the moment.

The Unrest, Basehead, Madonna, and Sonic Youth albums are all worth getting lost in.

I still love the "hits" off the Sugar, Beasties, Soul Asylum, Jayhawks, En Vogue, REM, Bikini Kill, and Faith No More.

And I still don't give a shit about the Pavement or PJ Harvey albums--and I've tried.

Is the Mary J. Blige worth getting?

Ha, scratch Faith No More--wrong year!

I voted for the REM record, but I love the Basehead record and could have gone either way. For all my love of that Basehead record, I never bothered learning if there were follow-ups. I don't even know who the band is. It's a real one-off for me that I can't get enough of, but won't bother digging any deeper.

Also, the first Black Crowes record is great, too, as is Bone Machine.

1992 is one of my favourite years ever.

I actually still have that Basehead album on my shelf, I just remembered. Not even in storage -- I paid $2 each for a used copy of that one and some other early '90s Basehead album a few years ago. I kept them both, so I must have liked them okay, but other than that I can't remember a damn thing about them.

Wait, isn't that the second Black Crowes album up there? (I was thinking their first one had scored in P&J a couple years before. I assume the debut was the best -- they seemed to be rocking more and wandering aimlessly less when they came out than they did later -- but they're another '90s band that I only own a best-of CD by now.)

Oops, you're right, it's not the debut. I didn't mean to vouch for the second record, which I find boring and, yeah, is best cut up and left to best-ofs. But the first one really does rock.

The Guild of Temporal Adventurers: Kendra Smith Presents the Guild of Temporal Adventurers (Fiasco)
Black 47: Black 47 (SBK)

Those are EPs, xhuxk.

As for John Trudell: AKA Graffiti Man (Rykodisc):

http://www.robertchristgau.com/get_artist.php?name=John+Trudell

I'll stand up for Arrested Development! That's a good album. I didn't vote for it, but it's still good. It's energetic, sonically creative and lyrically interesting. I'm not even sure what the criticisms against it are. Is it too precious or holier-than-thou or something? Granted, this was like my musical coming-of-age year, so I even like the Pearl Jam to an extent, though not as much as Vs. But anyway, the AD seems like a reasonably, objectively good record.

Nice to see Erasure, though I don't really care about that EP.

And oh yeah, I should probably have listed Madonna and Pavement (and maybe a couple others) among the albums that, if I heard them now, I might like them. But as with the others I mentioned (Mary, En Vogue, Television, L7, Bikini Kill, Urge Overkill), I've never had any real desire to spend more time with them up to this point, and it's hard for me to imagine that changing in, say, my remaining 30 or 40 years on the planet.

And oh yeah also, Dry is still my favorite PJ Harvey album, by far! So that'd be in the running as a Mariah runner-up too -- in fact, come to think of it, it probably is the runner-up. But "my favorite PJ Harvey" album still isn't really saying all that much.

Morrissey would have made my Top Ten; maybe the Television (an album I actually prefer to Adventure), R.E.M., Prince, Cohen too.

The album tracks on the Arrested Development album are dullsville.

The album tracks on the Arrested Development album are dullsville.

To a certain extent that's very true, but I really like the atmosphere of the record on the whole. And usually I do try to ignore most of the lyrics, natch--I'm not that out it--yet.

...

Dullsville is much too kind. Actively terrible.

xp x ?:

I may have a copy of that Unrest album in storage too, come to think of it. But I'm pretty sure I liked earlier stuff by them more (okay, I'm gonna try this off the top of my head: Malcolm X Park? Kustom Karnal Blaxploitation? I'm probably getting the names all wrong, and actually, I'm not even sure anymore if those were earlier -- didn't they start out doing limited-edition cassetes for their friends or something? I do remember that, to me, that they seemed more fun doing shorter art-punk songs than trying to reinvent Kraut-rock drones as bubblegum music, or whatever the heck they thought they were trying to do later.)

Either way, I haven't even thought of them for years. And no matter what albums I still own by them, I'd be surprised if I ever actually put them on again.

Destroy 1992.

Who the hell is John Trudell??

Native American, very political, quasi-spoken-word type thing. I actually bought this for a friend's birthday around that time (since she was very interested in it).

I think I always got him mixed up with John Trubee, who did "Blind Man's Penis" (which I've never actually heard.)

Anyway, between Trudell and Disposable Heroes of Hippopotami and Waits and Arrested Development, was this P&J's best year ever for poetry-slam artists? (Not sure if Basehead fit into that category or not.)

I'm kind of shocked that the Kinks EP made the list...then again, it contains one of those songs that sounds far too good for it being that late in their career (in this case, "Look Through Any Doorway." Phobia had another winner in "Scattered," and those two are the only early-90s Kinks songs anyone needs to hear).

The Basehead record is like a less smirky Mellow Gold. I wouldn't call either poetry-slam, but your mileage may vary.

Pavement by far.

man, a lotta good shit came out in '92 and none of it was on p&j

Pavement, but only because Smeared isn't on here.

Damn, that makes '92 look like a shitty year.

At the time I was listening to Slanted & Enchanted, Dirty, Dry, Play With Toys, and Imperial F.F.R.R. Only came to I am Cosmos later on.

Then or now, though, the best record on this list = Kendra Smith Presents the League of Temporal Adventurers.

John Trudell is great. There was a documentary made about they showed on pbs a few months back. He was a leader of the American Indian Movement in the 1970s and supposedly had an FBI file 15,000 pages thick. His wife and kids were killed in a suspicious fire and after that he became a poet/musician. A bit too fond of the synthesizer on record but live he's an imposing presence. His greatest song remains baby boom che, one of the best-ever songs about Elvis.

I saw him open for (ugh) Midnight Oil back in teh day and the crowd in NYC was ridiculously hostile, chanting Fuck You over and over and generally making life miserable for him. I spoke to him at a show a couple months later and when I brought up the Midnight Oil show, he laughed and said "That was nothing. I knew they'd be a little rowdy." Clearly the implication was that it would take more than a couple hundred bratty college rock fans at a Midnight Oil show to get to him.

I went with R.E.M., but if only any number of rave comps were eligible for voting here. (Only For the Headstrong!)

I seem to recall a little album called THE CHRONIC THAT IS ABSENT FROM THIS LIST.

Automatic thread bump. This poll is closing tomorrow.

True, but it didn't register (zeitgeist, etc) until spring '93, right?

I seem to recall that The Chronic DIDN'T COME OUT UNTIL THE LAST WEEK OF THE YEAR AND THEN PLACED SIXTH IN THE 1993 P&J.

voted Bone Machine -- the biggest highlight (for me) in a career full of 'em.

yeah Bone Machine pretty easy, then Predator then eh. Arrested Development was good(several album cuts included -- was 'Natural' a single? what was my shit) and I was primed for that kind of 'positivity' at that point but hardly felt great even at the time. I hardly ever listened to rock back then which makes it easier.

Was having a dilemma for a moment there because I confused Bricks Are Heavy with Smell The Magic, the superior not-really-an-EP. Then it was between Bikini Kill and Freedy. But like The Stooges on Fun House, they fucked up a perfect album by ending on a note of conceptual caterwaul. I always liked Can You Fly. But it hit me really hard a year or so ago and now I pull it out every few months to listen to "The Lucky One," for one, hang right off my heart. So Can You Fly. It's pretty unfunkin' perfect.

Granted, it's easier to get us to care about a two-bit gambler, as Freedy does in "The Lucky One," than the molesting father in BK's "Suck My Left One" which is what Randy Newman would have strived for. But Johnston has a country-like gift for uncovering the everyday drama in the lives of people for whom no one will ever write a biography. So, predictably, I chalk up my own personal Freedy victory over Bikini Kill to simply growing older, to having a history that I find rather dull and straight-and-narrow but others have found fascinating for some reason.

Still, I throw temper tantrums on a regular basis and "Suck My Left One" stopped me in my tracks about an hour ago. To call that song perfectly realized would only add to its horror.

I'll stand up for Arrested Development!...I'm not even sure what the criticisms against it are. Is it too precious or holier-than-thou or something?

The latter, esp. in "Mr. Wendall." Most blacks come out of college confused? Please move directly to the Whatever department. Besides, why should we be listening to anti-capitalist rants from a band who named their debut after how long it took them to get a contract with a major label?

I hear what people are saying above about the album's atmosphere. But it only makes the lyrics stand out more. And the atmosphere trades sinuous for limp too often. Seriously, it was the worst album to win the poll up to that point. I was stunned at the results.

The great thing about these particular ILM polls is obviously the chance to drag out dust-caked albums. I'm listening right now to Erotica for probably the first time in the Aughties. Still holds up quite well, esp. in the opening four-song sequence that culminates in "Deeper and Deeper," her best single of the 1990s. But patchiness ensues as with every Madge full-length. No disco roots album needs "In This Life" or "Why's It So Hard" or even "Bad Girl" or maybe even "Secret Garden" which I really like. Christ, maybe even "Rain" which is one of her few effective ballads (love that rev into the middle eight). And either "Where Life Begins" or "Waiting" but not both. Maybe it isn't a disco roots album after all. But "Thief of Hearts" - forgot that song even existed. A great bitch track for the masses.

Clearly the implication was that it would take more than a couple hundred bratty college rock fans at a Midnight Oil show to get to him.

But if they were at a Midnight Oil show, they were presumably open to political harangues. What exactly were they "fuck you"ing about?

Another vote for Freedy.

man, a lotta good shit came out in '92 and none of it was on p&j

-- max, Monday, 27 August 2007 20:21 (Yesterday) Link

Yes.

I can't remember if BK's Revolution Girl Style Now cassette came out this year or the year before, but to me that was the perfect Bikini Kill album, and the self-titled record sounded a little too rehearsed or something next to it. The cassette version of "Feels Blind" would have been one of my "singles" of the decade, too. I don't know why this tape was never put out on CD, but it should be.

Unrest were an education for me because I'd never even heard a lot of the Factory bands they worshipped, but I still think they are to some of those groups what Minutemen were to Pop Group--a hugely personalized, much funkier and more eccentric and experimental variation that in the end sounds more like its own anomolous and more beautiful thing. They were also different bands at different times, and had definite waves of inspiration. I can't think of any group that ever put out albums as great as Malcolm X Park (1988) and Imperial FFRR (1991?) that also put out albums as shitty as Fuck Pussy Galore (1987?) and Kustom Karnal Blaxploitation (1989?), with Perfect Teeth (1993?) falling somewhere in between (and their singles all over the place). Their reputation might have suffered as a result, though with their 1990-93 lineup of Bridget/Phil/Mark, they toured through Minneapolis at least three times, and each show was just stunning. Mark's next band, Flin Flon, was also great live.

OK, guys, so let's see a few of these mythical 1992 albums that were not included on this list. I'm genuinely curious. (and The Chronic has already been mentioned, so let's not bring that one up again...please)

(Matt, I'm especially curious to see what 1992 releases you were digging at the time--or even later on.)

Actually, my two fave albums of 1992 are not up there:

Asia Classics I: The South Indian Film Music of Vijaya Anand - Dance Raja Dance (Luaka Bop/Warner Bros. '92) - FINALLY found some of the movies after over a decade of searching. Here's a clip of the title track: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_Hq1zDbLXno

Shanté: The Bitch is Back (Livin' Large '92) - I listened to this album more than any other in the 1990s. After Endtroducing..., it's my fave of the decade. She's the greatest rapper of all-time. (Yes, I'm dead serious.)

the self-titled record sounded a little too rehearsed or something next to it.

Spoken like a true punk. :)

There's not THAT much difference between the cassette and the self-titled record. I imagine that's the reason why the cassette's not out on CD. If BK ever put out a box set (gad!), they'd be the extraneous demo/alternative versions.

xp: Yeah, I really liked The Bitch is Back, but have never heard Asia Classics 1. (I'll have to check out that youtube link when I get a chance.)

Also: Matos is absolutely right about the greatness of Only For the Headstrong!--probably my favorite techno (rave?) comp ever.

No disco roots album needs "In This Life" or "Why's It So Hard" or even "Bad Girl" or maybe even "Secret Garden" which I really like

I love the block-chord synths and total nihilism of Maddie's lyrics on "In This Life," which you don't expect from a multiplatinum icon. You're totally right about "Why It's So Hard," though.

Bikini Kill: I reviewed the EP for Rolling Stone; basically liked "Carnvial," which is still the only song by them I've ever really cared about. Back then, I couldn't tell what the big deal was with a generic slamdance band who happened to be women; plus, Frightwig and Raszebrae had seemed more fun to me. Now I've got nothing in particular against them.

Vijaya Anand = collage music. "Interesting," sort of.

Pop Group = I want to say they were funkier than the Minutemen, but I'm not sure I really believe that.

Had no idea that the Unrest were fans of Factory bands. Guess I didn't closley read the press bios (though again, I liked them okay, honest I did.)

Some albums I like from 1992 (incomplete list, though I'll do my best to leave out reissues of really really old stuff like Hoosier Hot Shots):

1992
Midi Maxi & Efti – Midi Maxi & Efti (Columbia)
Caifanes – El Silencio (RCA/BMG International US Latin)
Love/Hate – Wasted In America (Columbia)
Cerati/Melero – Colores Santos (Sony Discos)
Loco Mia – Taiyo (Sony Discos)
Colourhaus – Water To The Soul (Interscope)
Celtic Frost – 1984-1992: Parched With Thirst Am I And Dying (Noise reissue)
A.L.T. & The Lost Civilization – Another Latin Timebomb (Atlantic)
D.A.D. - Riskin’ It All (Warner Bros.)
Garth Brooks – The Chase (Liberty)
Duice – Dazzey Duks (Bellmark)
Sophie B. Hawkins – Tongues And Tails (Columbia)
Jordy – Pochette Surprise (Surprise Package) (Columbia France)
Faster Pussycat – Whipped! (Elektra)
Café Tacuba – Café Tacuba (WEA Latina)
Charles & Eddie – Duophonic (Capitol)
Billy Ray Cyrus – Some Gave All (Mercury)
Lawnmower Death – Return Of The Fabulous Metal Bozo Clowns (Relativity)
The Daou – Head Music (Columbia)
Cordelia’s Dad – How Can I Sleep? (Okra)
Lil Louis – Journey With The Lonely (Epic)

(ps: It should be noted here that though my name is Charles Eddie and I have a daughter named Cordelia, neither of those artists are actually me, per se'.)

(Also, you might notice that that list is totally geared toward the first half of the alphabet -- i.e., no artists alphabetically after "M." I have a lot more catalouging to do. Will get to it someday.)

A few more, off the top of my head:

One 2 One Imagine It (A&M)
Ramones Mondo Bizarro (Radioactive)
Warrant Dog Eat Dog (Columbia)
Xuxa Xuxa 2 (Globo)

Midi Maxi & Efti – Midi Maxi & Efti (Columbia)

In my top ten of the year too (big Army of Lovers fan too). What happened to these princesses?

Colourhaus – Water To The Soul (Interscope)

Didn't you review this for Spin saying something about how we should use Rumours as a historical divider just as much as we have been using Bollocks or punk in general? I love that review. This is still an awful record, though. Isn't this the one that ends with a song called "Oxygen?" "Oxygen, oxygen, I love you more than oxygen." That's the only song I ripped to a disc I called GTOs. Again, if I'm remembering correctly.

Jordy – Pochette Surprise (Surprise Package) (Columbia France)

Ha! This jeunehomme is now 18-plus years old. His dad fucked over his fortunes in some awful Jordy petting farm that was an absolute bomb. "Pourquoi ci, pourquoi ça?"

All the non-dance songs and AIDS references and Gershwin-quoting balladry work for me because Erotica is not as much about dance as it is about self-destruction.

Stuff I liked in '92:

Smash Yr. Head On the Punk Rock - Sebadoh
Bizarre Ride II - the Pharcyde
Stimulation Festival - Pain Teens
Love of Life - Swans
Der Abend der Schwarzen Folklore - Caspar Brotzmann Massaker
Cor-Crane Secret - Polvo
A Blaze In the Northern Sky - Darkthrone (out very late '91)
Guided By Voices - Propeller (didn't hear til early '93)
Hemp for Victory - The Mike Gunn ('91, but it was my soundtrack in '92)

The key Bikini Kill song was "Feels Blind," which you can't slam to, and was sort of their signature Aretha-meets-Sex Pistols anthem, and the version on Revolution Girl Style Now is far and away better than the slightly faster version on the EP. That combination of soul, Rotten sarcasm, and feminism was the big deal, and it stands up.

Not sure how I absorbed the stuff about Unrest; maybe their covers.

top of my head

Pizzicato Five, Sweet Pizzicato Five
The Pharcyde, Bizarre Ride II the Pharcyde (seconded)
Divine Styler, Spiral Walls Containing Autumns of Light
Caetano Veloso, Circuladô
Fela Kuti, Underground System
Daniela Mercury, O Canto do Cidade
Shakespears Sister, Hormonally Yours
Jelly's Last Jam soundtrack

Man Shaekspear's Sister. Haven't heard that in a long while, but I like it a lot.

Nice. Thanks for the heads-up, guys. Unfortunately, I haven't heard much of that stuff beyond the Pharcyde. And, haha, Mondo Bizarro is the only one I've heard from xhuxk's list. Although I have heard parts of the Celtic Frost and Garth Brooks records I suppose. (Also, I wonder how that Love/Hate record compares to their debut?)

Oh and, Matt, how does the Caetano Veloso record compare to the rest of his work?

Sade - Love Deluxe <--

Damn, this reminds me that I gotta get that Divine Styler CD one of these days, too. And was that really a new Fela release then, Matt, or just a re-issue?

S&E a little ahead of imperial

But if they were at a Midnight Oil show, they were presumably open to political harangues. What exactly were they "fuck you"ing about?

Have no idea. It was like mook central, which was odd becauce Midnight Oil was such a lefty band. I can only assume he didn't rawk, so they decided they hated him. As soon as he came out, the heckling and jeering began, which in an odd way made the performance even more powerful.

I remember a review of that show in Rolling Stone a few weeks later where they mentioned how brutal the crowd was towards John Trudell, which made it even cooler when he laughed it off.

Circuladô is a weird record, strange songs next to would-be synth-pop "hits" that never were. Odd but signs of his awesomer DECADE TO COME.

Automatic thread bump. This poll's results are now in.

I could live with the top four, but Faith No More wtf.

In Faith No More's defense: They are no more wtf than plenty of other things up there.

Bumper sticker: Don't blame me, I voted for Kendra Smith

Will the fact that people have different tastes in music never be understood?

the faith no more album is their masterpiece.

I like 9 out of the top 10 (no idea who freedy johnston is)

Will the fact that people have different tastes in music never be understood?

Call it whistling in the dark.

I didn't vote cuz there were several albums I liked pretty equally, but in hindsight I would have voted for Your Arsenal.

OK, call it whistling in the dark. But if I did so, what would that mean? Clarity is an under-appreciated strength in online message-boarding.

I like to pick on people with different tastes than mine.

Aha. That's fair enough.

If I'd voted, it would have been between FNM and Pavement.

Colourhaus – Water To The Soul (Interscope)
Didn't you review this for Spin saying something about how we should use Rumours as a historical divider just as much as we have been using Bollocks or punk in general? I love that review. This is still an awful record, though. Isn't this the one that ends with a song called "Oxygen?"

Yeah, that's the one, and I guess I said something like that. I think I may have reviewed it along with One 2 One -- Colorhaus being Australia's more interesting but less popular version of Roxette, and One 2 One being Canada's ditto (except not necessarily more interesting than Roxette's debut album or best-of CD, so never mind.)Anyway, "Oxygen" is indeed the best Colorhaus track (and it's indeed great), but "All The Way To Marakesh" and "Moving Mountains" are not all that far behind.

Otherwise:

Love/Hate's followup isn't quite as awesome as their debut, but it's much closer than I used to think.

Army of Lovers were nowhere near as good as Midi Maxi Efti (who, right, seem to have disappeared off the face of the earth and not left a trace), but they (A of L I mean) were okay, esp. w/ "Crucified".

Faith No More were at least less boring than Sugar.

I seem to recall that The Chronic DIDN'T COME OUT UNTIL THE LAST WEEK OF THE YEAR AND THEN PLACED SIXTH IN THE 1993 P&J.

-- Matos W.K., Monday, 27 August 2007 23:05 (2 days ago)

I CAN'T CONTROL THE VOLUME OF MY VOICE!

yeah, I failed to check into the next year, and forgot that this came out at the end of the nine-deuce. But you can't blame me for the mistake! Every line on the album shouts out "the nine-deuce."