Love - Forever Changes Poll

you set the scene

choose the impossible

"A House Is Not a Motel" for me

Seriously impossible.

Now we're talking! Definitely "The Red Telephone," the absolute pinnacle of psychedelia in its cognitive dislocations, its gazeworthy minutiae, its desire to be all things to all people, to be one with all. But it's also a gutwrenching premonition of Arthur Lee's prison time and the counterculture's general inability to live up to its own ideals. And can we settle this once and for all: the line is "We're all normal WHEN we want our freedom" not "AND we want our freedom." When you get there, ask Arthur; he'll tell you the difference.

Then comes "You Set The Scene." Worst: "Bummer in the Summer"

"Worst: "Bummer in the Summer". i kinda like this little,simpe tune one.

i always skip "live and let live" or "the good humor".

I like this album but I haven't yet had one of those "classic album" moments with it when I realize that I love it more than anything. I guess I need to listen to it more maybe? I see a lot of people calling it their favorite album of the 60s both here and elsewhere.

My favorite song on it is "A House is Not a Motel"

"Alone Again Or" obviously

"Worst: "Bummer in the Summer". i kinda like this little,simpe tune one.

I like it too. But it's easily the worst song on the record, doesn't fit conceptually, all that.

you set the scene without any doubt

"Live and Let Live" cos it deserves at least one vote.

Hey, "The snot has caked against my pants" is itself worth a vote

Old man. As much as I try, I can't get into the second half of this album.

Practically impossible.

I was always sort of put off Arthur Lee for one reason.

He's always been cited as a genius, but his band's most famous song is not written by him (Alone Again or).

This meant that I came to their first three albums late, but exactly when I needed them.

Nowadays, this is one of my favourite albums of all time, without a doubt.

(Bryan ftw)

I voted for You Set The Scene but had to deliberate because Maybe the People Would Be the Times is so good as well.

aaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaa OTM
Side One is faultless, Side Two is a bit uneven. 'Red Telephone' is my choice.

Hey, "The snot has caked against my pants" is itself worth a vote

Yes OTM, MVB!!

He's always been cited as a genius, but his band's most famous song is not written by him (Alone Again or).

This meant that I came to their first three albums late, but exactly when I needed them.

I'm confused as to why that would make you come to the first three albums late. But "Alone Again Or" is not their most famous song. That would go to "7 and 7 Is" or "My Little Red Book."

But even if it were their most famous song, how on earth could that possibly dminish Lee's genius?

"It's Complicated"

OK, it's not really. More, at the time, if he was so great, it would be his song that was the most well know, as opposed to Bryan Maclean's or Burt Bacharach's.

I had heard too many rub bands that were influenced by "Forever Changes", to the point where when I heard it properly for the first time, I was all "my gog, they didn't even get close!"

(hey, I'm leaving that typo in there!)

"You Set the Scene" is the only song I really play off this anymore. I think Arthur Lee can be a bit overrated--his songs can sound a bit too much like children's rhymes for me--but I have had a few occasions when I've woken up to "You Set the Scene" vividly playing in my head, which I would consider to be the pivotal sign of greatness.

"I think Arthur Lee can be a bit overrated"

even if its true, his rare vocals talent and beauty is undeniable.
just compare "andmoreagain" with "7 and 7 is" and "signed d.c." (the later version.
it's like 3 different,great singers..

"The Red Telephone" for its exemplification of 1960s LA dread.

Old Man, ever since I saw Love at Glastonbury in 2003. The whole set was a beautiful moment of clarity for me, but when I got home, it was remembering Old Man that caught the essence of it.

And can we settle this once and for all: the line is "We're all normal WHEN we want our freedom" not "AND we want our freedom."

He's quoting Marat/Sade on this one; "We're all normal and we want our freedom" is a line the inmates in the asylum say.

But he quite clearly says WHEN on the recording itself despite what the Arthur Lee tribute album claims.

More, at the time, if he was so great, it would be his song that was the most well know, as opposed to Bryan Maclean's or Burt Bacharach's.

I thought they were teaching rockism in schools now.

I had heard too many rub bands that were influenced by "Forever Changes"

P.S. What's a rub band?

lol the idea I'm in school now.

Funnily enough, we were on a tour round a secondary school for Amber, the library had (amongst other things) NMEs going back ooh 30 issues?...

(not that that's rockism, etc)

rub = rubbish, Kevin.

this is difficult.....

But he quite clearly says WHEN on the recording itself despite what the Arthur Lee tribute album claims.

-- Kevin John Bozelka, Friday, October 5, 2007 2:16 PM (1 hour ago) Bookmark Link

not THAT clearly! ive never heard it as anything but "and."

'the red telephone'

but really fucking hard poll.

It's "and" on the "FC Concert" right?

You Set The Scene

"Maybe the People Would Be the Times or Between Clark and Hilldale"

I mean this is a hard one, but I love the way that each verse ends with an elipsis and the first word in the next verse inserts the missing word. Is that device called something?

Difficult choice. The only track I've never much liked is "Good Humor Man" - sounds like an "Orange Skies" retread to me - and even that one's got a nice skittering orchestral freakout at the climax.

I'm gonna go with "Daily Planet". Just like "You Set The Scene", it sounds like 2 or 3 little songs joined together, but unlike that album closer, it comes full circle: Begins with "Every morning we arise...", ends with "Look, we're going round & round" and begins again, another day of sirens and accidents on Go/Stop Boulevarde, etc.

"The Red Telephone" by a nose over "You Set the Scene"

OTM Dr Morbius!

I'm gonna go with "Maybe the People..." slightly over "A House Is Not a Motel."

yes, Morbs got it just about right
xpost

Automatic thread bump. This poll is closing tomorrow.

Automatic thread bump. This poll's results are now in.

what?

I missed this. But probably would have gone for "Alone Again Or" anyway.

"old man" is a much better maclean song.
)and where is the love for "daily planet")

I voted for "Daily Planet"!

But I couldn't be unhappy with any set of results

I wanted to stage a rally or protest since my pick A House is Not A Motel didn't win. But I can't really complain since I liked all the candidates and feel that each gave their best effort and to lose to both You Set the Scene and Alone Again Or means that most people who voted probably got to the end of the album and that's very encouraging for all of us as we move into the future together.

Thank You. Now, c'mon, isn't it about time some wiseacre comes along and tells us why Reel to Real or whatever it's called is the REAL masterpiece. I'm game.

So any road: Now there's a "Collectors Edition" due shortly.

Disc 1 = Original stereo mix

Disc 2 = Stereo mix made in 1970 and used ever since, and also some extra tracks:

12. Wonder People (I Do Wonder) [outtake/previously unreleased]
13. Hummingbirds [demo/previously unreleased]
14. House Is Not A Motel [backing track/previously unreleased]
15. Andmoreagain [alt. electric backing track/previously unreleased]
16. Red Telephone
17. Woolly Bully [outtake/previously unreleased]
18. Alone Again Or [mono single mix]
19. Your Mind And We Belong Together [tracking sessions highlights]
20. Your Mind And We Belong Together
21. Laughing Stock

I mean arpeggio 244222 then 044000, I may be wrong but it sounds convincing to me.

No you are probably right

I mean that is the same chord I was talking about but with a C# on the A string, which makes in even stronger. I guess you could call it in Em13.

"an" not "in"

You're right of course. I was just surprised I could play the thing.

Yeah, I never even bothered to try until last night after you mentioned it.

Do wish somebody would discover some live audio material from this time or earlier. Sounds from reading Michael Stuart Ware that Lee was pretty down on anybody he found recording him though.
Would have been really something if they'd played Monterey and there was footage. Looked for ages as though lee would just pull out of prestige performances without much warning. I think Stuart Ware talks about last minute cancellation of playing in Atlanta or Texas.

There's a fantastic long interview with John Ecchols in an Ugly Things from about 3 years back. In which he places a mixed race band more firmly in its time. Its about as revelatory as the Arthur lee memoir collected as John Einarson's Forever Changes book.

Michael Stuart Ware was the drummer who had also been in Sons of Adam and he wrote a book about a decade back called Behind The Scenes at The Pegasus Carousel which has since been updated. I haven't read the update.

Very interesting thanks.

top E melody line runs 2-3-5-3-2-0-2-3-2-0-3-2

Not to get finger-nit-picky but I hear, and definitely play, 2-3-5-5-5-3-2-3-2-3-2

I think ledge is right. It lingers longer on the A and there is no E melody note played.

I also do more travis picking than simple arpeggios and throw in a couple of hammer-ons in there, I'd like to say it's my interpretation but it's what the guy I learnt from on youtube did.

Yeah mine was just me thinking it out from memory and I fudge that bit anyway I think.

i wonder who'll it be tomorrow, you or me?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NXpXw_DUMxg

<3

just passed 50th anniv about a week back

and it still sounds as great as ever

this is the time in life when i am living, and i'll face each day with a smile, for the time that i've been given's such a little while, and the things that i must do consist of more than style

\m/

Undying respect and Love for this album

The very same, as well as undying respect for Love in general... Personally, I spin Love, Da Capo and Four Sail as often as Forever Changes ... particularly Four Sail, which I still think is painfully underrated.

The people of clark and hilldale were robbed

You know, I see a lot of people that like Four Sail, actually. I am certainly one of them!

Out Here has a lot of really good songs comparable to those on Four Sail also.

I've gotta listen to Four Sail right this second.

False Start is another great one, with The Everlasting First belonging in the top rank of their oeuvre. Featuring a killer guitar solo by Jimi Hendrix.

i like robert montgomery off four sail

anyway, happy birthday forever changes xx

is it Johnny Echols who plays the solo on "Live and Let Live"?

No reason not to think it isn't.

... er. No reason to think it isn't. Rather. LOL.

sure, just wanted to be surer, for no important reason. an incredible solo obv !

Maybe the People is the sound of summer, every summer since '67

I don't think I will ever tire of hearing Forever Changes. One of those records, like Odessey and Oracle, that has this incredible ability to retain its freshness for me.

Maybe the People Would Be the Times or Between Clark and Hilldale (what a strange title) is toe-curling-joyous (my translation of the french "jouissif"). So lively, and this lead guitar melody repeated by the one-note repetition of the trumpets is genius. I wasn't familiar with this particular song, for only listening to the more famous ones, but now I have it on repeat. I prefer it to the more elaborate guitar compositions.

The whole album's a killer, man. Every last song is fantastic.

maybe the people is so good, love it when Arthur Lee sings over the trumpets too

my vote would've been a dead heat between that and you set the scene, but yeah this is a front-to-back classic

Was it on this board or somewhere else in my years past internet forum fumblings that there was this completely absurd backlash against this album? It was entirely based upon this really trolltastic revision that Arthur was a late-60s hipster / scenester doofus that was just trying to get chicks or something.

tbf a lot of great albums were made by late 60s hipster scenester doofuses just trying to get chicks

lol otm

70s, 80s, 90s hipster doofuses as well.

Live and Let Live deserved better than one vote here.

I know, but I seem to remember this lot was trying to say the album was trash because of that.

It was extremely try-hard and had nothing to do with the actual music.

“Andmoreagain” always seems to me to be some kind of El Lay take on a British folk thing, like their version of “Fotheringay” or something.

I just got this album in March.

You just got a hold of it or you just “got” it, as in understood it?

One of the many things I love about this record:

- side 1 ends with a repeated i - I progression - stasis
- side 2 ends with a repeated V - I progression - completion

Still have not heard that version of “A House Is Not a Motel” with the sudden stop, predating “I Want You (She’s So Heavy)” by a good two years. That’s how the song originally was supposed to end but they were talked out of it by Elektra. HOWEVER, it did appear on some obscure ‘80s Canadian pressing of the album.

The version I had must have been obscure and Canadian in that case... except I'm pretty sure it wasn't.

When I bought a vinyl reissue of Forever Changes in England in the 1980s , it definitely had the sudden stop version of A House is Not a Motel and for a long time I thought that was the ONLY version.

This fan remix/remaster is pretty awesome

https://www.profstoned.com/2022/08/love-forever-changes-remixed-prof.html

They're out there touring (with Johnny Echols, who I did not know till today)! No different than a thousand other phantom bands from the distant past doing that, I suppose, but this one feels especially disorienting.