Britpop flops in U.S. o' A.

The Americans never forgave the Brits for not buying Kiss records (Gene Simmons, what a fucking joke), and we gave them the chance for loadsa good music, which they just never understood (Smiths, Stone Roses, Suede, Pulp, Manics). 'Oh man, I don't get all that common people stuff by Pulp - can't you get Steve Albini to make it more shit so we can like it?'

The fact that Bush are the Uk's biggest export says it all. The fact that MTV play listed the Cranberries in America when they were supporting the much superior Suede says even more.

Sure they gave us Nirvana and Mercury Rev, but otherwise yank music is toss!

This is clearly why Stereophonics, Muse, Coldplay, Starsailor, and Atomic Kitten aren't in our charts. Yep.

it's not that smiths et all aren't good and wouldn't have been accepted by the u.s. had they been given the chance, it's just a bunch of american media and record exec types decided the music wasn't relevant to north american audiences and decided to push the new whitesnake album instead.

and lumping sonic youth in the same category as pearl jam is pretty ignorant.

I like loads of English music (even, to my shame, Suede), but can I get a witness that the Stone Roses do NOT belong on that list? Freakin' Def Leppard had more interesting songs in their freakin' run-off grooves.

Naturally Pulp (who are great) didn't make it over here: they're pretty culture-bound: it's hard for Americans who haven't gone out of their way to study English class politics to have any idea of what old Jarvis is going on about.

No, no, we've been over this before, it's the sign of a superior personality. Though Dr. C has that as well, despite his hate. ;-)

Were you at the Blur/Pulp show at the Palace in 1994, John? Surely you at least thought of it.

Sigh.

It may be argued that the Beatles were the single best thing to happen to rock and roll music since its nascent days with Elvis and Buddy Holly. One has to wonder what they would have sounded like without the influence of such people as Little Richard, Chet Atkins, the Everly Brothers, or Chuck Berry.

I am old enough to recognise that there is a pendulum that swings back and forth every five years or so. Right now the pendulum happens to be pointing to western side of the pond.

the rap station i listen to in america does play the same ten songs. it's sad. and the former kickass "indie" freeform station is now nu metal, and that's what the kids are hearing and buying, simply.

the difference with the diversity of music in england is that i have a really fair chance of hearing travis if i go in a store that's playing the radio. which is good, because sometimes Writing To Reach You kills me and renders me weepy and speechless (or maybe it's pms), far more than a J-Lo single.

(Gene Simmons, what a fucking joke)
Never was a truer point made on ILM.

...and we gave them the chance for loadsa good music, which they just never understood.
Its not "lack of understanding", Americans generally can't connect to The Smiths or Pulp for the same reason that Brits can't seem to connect to Springsteen or Mellencamp. "Cuz its a Yank thing and You're not Supposed to 'Understand' "; Americans tend to respond to American music for the same Brits respond to British music. The songs are about THEM in THEIR culture spoken to them in THEIR style in THEIR voice. Unfortunately, if that voice happens to Hank Williams Jr or Stephen Patrick Morrissey...well...thats something you'll just have to accept.
Also, You're erroneously assuming that Americans chose Vanilla Ice/MC Hammer/Snow over Suede/Pulp/Manics by informed concensus. No. Most Americans never even knew about Suede/Pulp/Manics. They never got onto the overly restricted playlists in our fascist wonderland here.

(Smiths, Stone Roses, Suede, Pulp, Manics).
Actually, what pisses me off is the Brits had THREE perfect chances for a new Beatles (XTC, the La's and the Stone Roses) and instead, they chose Oasis. A band only 1/10th of the talent of any of those three bands. (Plus, the Gallagher brothers are even worse assholes than David Lee Roth and Sammy Hagar.)

"Oh man, I don't get all that 'common people' stuff by Pulp."
Sure we do. Its the Brit equiv of "I Wanna Hump a Trailer Tramp". See, If Jarvis Cocker has titled it thus, it would've gone over big in the States. (Americans are NOT famous for their subtlety.)
- can't you get Steve Albini to make it more shit so we can like it?'
Anyone whose ever heard what he did to In Utero or Rid of Me knows that wasn't a good thing.
The fact that Bush are the UK's biggest export says it all.
Wrong. In the US, Bush was a considered to be a two-hit wonder quickly overshadowed by the Stone Temple Pilots. You must remember that selling 2 million albums is really small potatoes here. That means that less than 1% of the American populace bought the record.
The fact that MTV...
I'll stop you there. Since when does ANYBODY with ANY sense pay attention to ANYTHING MTV has to say. MTV hasn't said or done anything of relevance to the tastes of anyone over the age of 6 for nearly 4 years.
...playlisted the Cranberries in America when they were supporting the much superior Suede says even more.
Cranberries (a Sundays knock-off) vs Suede (a copy-of-a-copy-of a David Bowie tribute band) are your best bets here. Puh-leez.
Sure they gave us Nirvana and Mercury Rev, but otherwise yank music is toss!
If it wasn't for American music, Britain might still be playing Skiffle.

Now. The Americans did not even play list the Manic single 'If you Tolerate this your Children will be Next'. Fair enough, it's a pretty shit song - but they didn't playlist it because the titles was too long and it might go over the heads of their listeners! Just as Primal Scream are now doomed for their song 'Bomb the Pentagon'. Oh God forbid, all bands should not act like U2 and actually have something to SAY about first world foreign policy (and for the record I think they mean the title of the song, erm, metaphorically. You guys do understand metaphor right?).

Face it - you guys like your bands safe or not at all.

"(Plus, the Gallagher brothers are even worse assholes than David Lee Roth and Sammy Hagar.)"

No no no - I'm not taking that. Sorry, but you're wrong wrong wrong. No one on earth created more shit music than Van Halen, and the fact that Roth (especially) was a misogynistic neanderthal just makes me wish Van Halen had never existed. They never made it in the UK anyway. You guys tend to like your rock stars ot be Jock-like, all 'cool' and lovin them groupies and 'oh he's so cute'. No wonder you don't get the Gallaghers...

"The fact that Bush are the UK's biggest export says it all. Wrong. In the US, Bush was a considered to be a two-hit wonder quickly overshadowed by the Stone Temple Pilots. You must remember that selling 2 million albums is really small potatoes here. That means that less than 1% of the American populace bought the record."

I have yet to meet an American who does not know Bush. I've yet to meet an American who knows Suede. That's bad.

"Cranberries (a Sundays knock-off) vs Suede (a copy-of-a-copy-of a David Bowie tribute band) are your best bets here. Puh-leez."

Dog Man Star. Best LP ever. Voted as 9nth best LP ever by NME readers in 1999. It's VERY acclaimed over here... and I'm probably it's biggest fan. Though Suede are now officially crap.

"Sure they gave us Nirvana and Mercury Rev, but otherwise yank music is toss! If it wasn't for American music, Britain might still be playing Skiffle. "

Now that is just a silly thing to say. If it wasn't for yank music, Blur would never have gone crap and UK middle class white boys would not fantasise about being a 'homie' in the Bronz. FACT.

Where it says...
Unfortunately, if that voice happens to Hank Williams Jr or Stephen Patrick Morrissey...well...thats something you'll just have to accept.
It should've said...
Unfortunately, if that American voice happens to Hank Williams Jr or that British voice happens to be Stephen Patrick Morrissey, well, thats something we will both just have to accept.

So there. But I still think he's being a 'Laddist' Troll.

Face it - you guys like your bands safe or not at all.
The ruling cultural elite here does. But the populace doesn't. Always remember that. Tipper Gore != American musical tastes.
No no no - I'm not taking that. Sorry, but you're wrong wrong wrong.
Yes Yes Yes. The behaviour of the members of Oasis, especially Noel and Liam are boorish and unprofessional...JUST...LIKE...ROTH.
No one on earth created more shit music than Van Halen...
Well, Van Heffelin are crap...I agree wholeheartedly on that, but have you heard the Stereophonics. Eeeuuuuuwww. This is not an improvement.
...and the fact that Roth (especially) was a misogynistic neanderthal...
And he looks like Farraw Fawcett with a bald spot...
just makes me wish Van Halen had never existed.
I SECOND THAT MOTION!
They never made it in the UK anyway.
Well, I'm sure they outsold alot of your fave bands...IN YOUR OWN NATIVE COUNTRY and those concert tickets were bought BY YOUR OWN BEFUDDLED COUNTRYMEN; When they could've enriched themselves by hanging out in the corner pub back in 1987 and listening to the local band, Pulp.
You guys tend to like your rock stars ot be Jock-like, all 'cool' and lovin them groupies and 'oh he's so cute'.
Um...maybe you haven't noticed, but Heavy Metal Hair Band Cock Rock for Jocks(TM)(R)(C) went the way of the dod in 1992.
No wonder you don't get the Gallaghers...
When I called Liam and Noel assholes, I was referring to their PERSONALITIES, I don't care how much they can drink, benchpress or play guitar. I dispise them as HUMAN BEINGS!
I have yet to meet an American who does not know Bush. I've yet to meet an American who knows Suede. That's bad.
You must be meeting some strange Americans. Over here, they come in two types. Those who can vaguely remember Bush; and those who hate Bush and love Suede. But first they must KNOW about Suede, and They just don't get the exposure they deserve here.
And NO, its not my fault.
And no, its NOT my fault.
And no, its not MY FAULT.
Go bitch at Clear-Channel.
"Cranberries (a Sundays knock-off) vs Suede (a copy-of-a-copy-of a David Bowie tribute band) are your best bets here. Puh-leez."
Dog Man Star. Best LP ever. Voted as 9nth best LP ever by NME readers in 1999.
Thats readers of NME. I think theres, what, 6 of those here.

> "...Britain might still be playing Skiffle."
Now that is just a silly thing to say. If it wasn't for yank music, Blur would never have gone crap and UK middle class white boys would not fantasise about being a 'homie' in the Bronz. FACT.
No. I blame the need of White Boys everywhere trying to be 'homies' on the fact that Chuck D is just waaaay cooler than any of us. FACT!
Word Up, Homeboy. Peace. Out! -- Calum Robert (calumrw@hotmail.com), April 25, 2002.

am i the only person to suspect that calum and lord custos are one in the same?

No, it's just because were less racist:

Sun 28 Apr 2002 Almost half of all Scots would back moves to return immigrants to their country of origin, according to the exclusive Scotland on Sunday/Scottish Opinion poll. LARGE numbers of Scots hold racist views which could lead to a rise in the fortunes of far-right politicians north of the Border, a disturbing new opinion poll reveals. Almost half of all Scots would back moves to return immigrants to their country of origin, according to the exclusive Scotland on Sunday/Scottish Opinion poll. The survey - conducted in the wake of National Front leader Jean-Marie Le Pen’s success in the French presidential race - also reveals that only 46% of Scots believe immigrants make a positive contribution to society. The poll found that a majority of Scots - 58% - believe it is too easy for immigrants to enter the UK and only four out of 10 do not think there are too many immigrants in Scotland. The findings of the poll shatter the myth that racism is not endemic in multicultural Scotland. They also sparked grave warnings last night from one of Scotland’s leading anti-racism campaigners that the British National Party, tipped to win seats in England’s local elections this week, could soon capture Scottish parliament or council seats. Rowena Arshad, the director of Scotland’s Centre for Racial Equality, said she was "shocked" by the findings. She said: "I am very concerned that the BNP could rise here. Scotland needs to be more comfortable with diversity." Arshad, who is also Scotland’s equal opportunities commissioner, said Scotland has been "in denial" over racism which is "rife" in this country and does not just exist "among yobs and BNP supporters". Scotland on Sunday can also reveal that the BNP has escalated its activities north of the Border and is considering plans to contest next year’s Holyrood election for the first time if it does well in the English local elections. Our exclusive poll of 530 people across Scotland, the first major Scottish test of public opinion on immigration in several years, suggests that racism is endemic in a country that prides itself on tolerance. Hostile attitudes to asylum seekers and other immigrants who make their home in Scotland are most widely held by male Scots in their mid-20s and 30s in the C1 and C2 social classes. These are not angry skinheads but include office clerks, call centre workers, junior managers, plumbers, joiners and electricians, many of whom are setting up family homes and may feel threatened by a rise in asylum seekers and other immigrants. Arshad said this "polite racism" related to white men who regard themselves as "protectors and breadwinners" for their families. "One of the false fears surrounding immigration is the notion that the ethnic minorities have come to take our jobs". She said more efforts must now be made to tackle racism at an early age by requiring schools to teach children on the issue. Another key finding in the poll is that men are more likely to hold racist attitudes than women. Surprisingly, it also reveals that older Scots tend to be more tolerant of immigrants. First Minister Jack McConnell yesterday put the issue near the top of the political agenda. At a conference in Edinburgh, he said: "This past week shows that we must never be complacent about the politics of hatred based on easy populism. We need to put politics based on nationality and hatred into the dustbin of history." But Home Secretary David Blunkett last week warned that some schools were being "swamped" by asylum seekers. Phil Gallie, the Scottish Tory constitutional affairs spokesman, said growing Scottish concerns about asylum seekers were understandable. "Special interest groups would have you believe that Scotland is different," he said. "But the great majority of Scots realise that, while on occasion there is a need to give asylum to people oppressed in their own country, there is a feeling that far too many people come here too easily." A spokesman for the BNP, which denies it is racist, welcomed the poll findings. He claimed it showed Scots were "in tune with our ideas" that a rise in immigrants is "not conducive to the maintenance of white rule".

Which is fine (ditto the English persona-thing) since as a listener I don't give a shit about how a song affects its singer, I'm interested in how it affects me - the song-as-sung works as a kind of internal guide vocal.

Having seen some New Order concert footage, I certainly can. By and large, he manages to stay in tune on the studio recordings.

a) Brit vocalists are not up to snuff these days (I think this is one of the things that holds Brit dance music back in the States--all of the "divas" tend to be rather one-note and characterless; they're mostly just a texture in the music rather than its centerpiece)

b) Americans expect to be entertained (another thing that holds Brit dance music back--I've seen so many "star" DJs play to a US crowd staring emptily at the decks waiting for something to happen; but also, in a different context, Liam Gallagher always looked particularly lame doing his "I'm so cool I don't care about performing" act in the US)

But I also think that there's just as much good music coming out of the UK as there ever was. The problem is that the US expects a certain thing from Brit music, and Brit music just doesn't deliver that thing any more: to wit, the Beatles. Brit music in America is always marketed as an Invasion of cute boy bands playing a regional twist on American rock music, and virtually the only equivalent to that these days is... Bush.

For various reasons, some of them unfair, Brit variations on hip-hop (whether Mo Wax, Roots Manuva or 2-step) aren't credible in the US; Brit rock bands have for the most part chosen to follow (or rather construct) an indigenous "British" rock tradition; and America isn't quite ready for dance music, at least in the charts (which still depend on personality and image, two things that dance music is inherently poor at). And dance music is pretty much the story of Brit music in the last 10 years.

But who cares about the US charts anyway? They're controlled by payola and they mostly suck.

This is where that whole "vocal training" thing that so many people around here like to brush off as being unnecessary could really help a lot of these people out. Hell, Siouxsie Sioux was told she would have to stop singing or face completely losing the ability to talk, but once she started working with a vocal coach (circa _Superstition_, IIRC), she was fine. Ditto Madonna, once she got past the "Ooh, I have a voice teacher!" novelty-singing phase (_Ray Of Light_).

What, is it a particularly gray day in England today or something? ;)

besides coldplay and radiohead, have any "rock" bands from the uk gone platinum in the usa since 2000?

Assuming you're not including Iron Maiden/Def Leppard/Eric Clapton types, just Oasis and Franz Ferdinand.