What Is the Worst Single on New Order's Substance?

As they appear on Substance? "Confusion."

Never, ever liked "State of the Nation" even though I must own about 8 different versions of it.

I'm going with "Thieves Like Us." Never really fond of that one.

Wow, Alex. Really?

"Subculture" is a great song on Low-Life but it's easily the worst track in its Substance incarnation.

"Everything's Gone Green."

You left "Murder" off. I'm sure it's on my version!

I'm not saying it's necessarily a crap song ("Thieves Like Us"), it's just my least favorite of the bunch.

Murder is a b-side, so it's on disc 2 of the cd set

There aren't any crap songs on this album, just favorites and least favorites.

I'm sure it was listed as such, but it was the a-side of the 12", with an instrumental of "Thieves" as the bside, and they were on there.

state of the nation

god i hate "shellshock" so much

"Shellshock" hates your mom so much

but she made it a sandwich ;_;

aw, too bad

not that she cut the crusts off or anything, because she knows "shellshock" doesn't like them...oh well. sigh.

maybe it's not too late for reconciliation?

seriously though those mariachi synth horn blasts from hell must DIE

The lyrics are fucking awesome, though.

Back then I would probably have gone for one of the first two, but I have learned to appreciate them slightly more while "Confusion" still doesn't make much sense. So "Confusion" is the worst one for me.

I always felt close to "Shellshock" cuz it was the closest they came to Miami freestyle, but with 10 times the invention and the wit. The fucking thing never stops. There's a new instrumental or vocal filip every few seconds; it's baroque without being overstuffed.

Confusion is made for breakdancing, Geir. They even made a "how-to" video.

the only thing that doesn't make sense in "Confusion" is the people shouting "CONFUSION"

the instrumental version is awesome though

"State of the Nation." It sounds better today, though.

Soto, while "Shellshock" is indeed jaw-dropping, don't be ripping on Miami freestyle. Trinere's "How Can We Be Wrong" could take "Shellshock" to baroque-not-overstuffed finishing school.

And after countless listens and many perusals of the lyrics, I have no clue what "True Faith" is about.

It's about taking drugs to regain innocence.

It's "Shellshock" obviously.

"State of the Nation" narrowly beats "Shellshock" for this one

Used to hate "Shellshock" but the drum programming etc hit me one day and now I love it. I still don't really like "Everything's Gone Green" especially in the context of the rest of disc 1, although I love it sometimes.

What doesn't really make sense is why they didn't go w/ the original of "Temptation" -- in the context of "Ceremony" and "Everything's..." it would've fit perfectly.

the version of 'confusion' is the worst track.

'state of the nation' is blah but not terrible.

and 'subculture' is awesome here -- waaay better than album version.

My wife commented in the car today that she thought the album version of "Subculture" wasn't as good and had crummy vocals. I like the groove of the album version better--the synthbass octaves--but agree that the vocal is superior on the single.

hmmm maybe 'everything's gone green'

but i think i'll give the honours to 'state of the nation' for the particularly bad vocals

wow and here I was thinking "Subculture" was the obvious answer! And I think "Shellshock" is great.

This is probably the best opportunity to ever say this, but seriously, fuck "Blue Monday."

^ what that guy said

Bernard would agree.

toss up between shellshock and state of the nation, but I find shellshock stuck in my head a lot, and state of the nation never, so it wins (or loses, I guess).

fuck "Blue Monday."

nawwwwwww

W W W R L

Were all these singles?

Yes, they were all singles.

I see the point about that 1987 version of "Confusion," Fredo -- the original Arthur Baker versions are so much better/dirtysexier/breakdancier. The video features that version, BTW, Danny, at least the one I remember, where it shows them all in NYC going to the club to meet Arthur in the booth and watching him play the record for everyone. But honestly, nothing is worse than "State of the Nation" except maybe "Shame of the Nation." SOOOO bad.

Because hutlock is back, I must respond. Yes, "State of the Nation" is indeed the worst single on Substance.

The club was the Funhouse. You also see them going up the ramp to the Paradise Garage.

hutlock is back

RUN FOR YOUR LIVES!!!

(Of course, it was with him only a few weeks ago that I even BOUGHT Substance, so...)

ah, HENCE the nascent New Order love...

Yes, they were all singles.

Oh bollocks, I had Technique in my head. Of course.

I think some of the confusion (!) was caused by my misreading xhuxk, when I thought he'd called New Order "sexless" and implied they were a pale shadow of Latin freestyle due to being Limey hacks, and that, having appropriated a precious American form, in no way could they have had any corresponding influence the other way (hence a peculiarly American Anglophobia). I don't think he was saying that now.

Automatic thread bump. This poll is closing tomorrow.

Lostandfound, i bet y'all could perfect kiss (!) and make up...

I really hate the re-recorded version of "Ceremony." I vote for that. The original (on Singles is so much better.

This is a fantastic poll to be having. I'll have to try to figure out what is worse: the 12" version of Subculture, Shellshock, or State of The Nation!

Good lord! Blame ILM for making me listen to the worst of New Order! You guys kill me sometimes.

You'll never get me to this more than once, you know. ONE TIME and that's it.

The versions of "Ceremony" and "Temptation" here are the best versions BY FAR.

Lostandfound, i bet y'all could perfect kiss (!) and make up...

Yeah, I'm shellshocked, and truly regret that the state of the nation won't back our true faith in our sub culture, especially thieves like us!

(Sorry, ILM.)

For the record, I love the 12" version of Subculture.

Me too. John Robie is a genius. I can't remember whether Saville ever recanted.

wayyyy too much hate for Shellshock on this thread. i think it's stunning, and is easily in my top 3 tracks on Substance.

confusion stinks, state of the nation and shellshock are rather pointless but at least they don't smell bad.

"confusion stinks"

yer insane if you are serious. one of the greatest 12-inches of the 20th century.

the version of "confusion" (one of the arthur baker ones) on singles is so much better. "state of the nation" wins this for me.

Taking Sides:Confusion-vs-Confusion Beats-vs-Confusion Instrumental-vs-Confusion Rough Mix

Automatic thread bump. This poll's results are now in.

wow, i'm totally surprised that every single song got at least one vote

does the substance version of confusion have, like, an added guest rap or something on it? what's with the 8 votes? you people are demented.

I have no hatred for the Substance version of Confusion because it was the first version I knew, and thus will always have a special place in my heart.

Whomoever voted Ceremony however, is just insane.

booooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooo

BAHAHAHAHAHA STATE OF THE NATION IS #!1!!!! I LOVE YOU ALL!!! BLESS ILM. That's the one I was going to vote for as worst New Order song ever after that torture of listening to those tracks I mentioned upthread. Thank you.

Hehehe I love my cassette of cast versions of Joy Division songs from the movie Control.

I love "State of the Nation", not sure why people have an aversion to it. It's certainly Bernard's best channeling of Chic.

does the substance version of confusion have, like, an added guest rap or something on it? what's with the 8 votes? you people are demented.

-- scott seward, Sunday, November 18, 2007 12:41 AM (17 hours ago) Bookmark Link

it just sucks. it sounds very little like the original version.

'state' is just meh, not actively bad.

just listening to the 7:38 version of <i>confusion</i> on the 2nd disc of <i>substance</i>. you are right, scott that one is quite nice. a totally different song. i don't remember ever having heard two versions of the same song which differ so much. it has to be added though that the long version doesn't focus on the shitty chorus/tune too much. it is good exactly because of all the other stuff which is going on around the theme.

it's roughly the equivalent of the difference between 'blue monday' and 'blue monday 88', except 'blue monday 88' rules.

for comparison, the original "Confusion": http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7iKyPMXQb5o

god, that is even more crap than the one on the first side of substance. it sounds as if the tape speed is instable. just awful.

eh? the original is like the instrumental on the 2nd cd of 'substance'... only with vocals.

god, that is even more crap than the one on the first side of substance.

wayyyyyyy offtm

indeed.

had i been here, i'd have voted for SotN, which is down there with 60MPH and rock the shack at the very arse-end of the new order canon.

am annoyed i missed the discussion upthread, if only so i could zoom about going on about how acid house was invented in blackpool (by section 25) and incurring absolutely everyone's wrath.

hey ho.

Do people just hate it because of the lyrics? The melody is catchy and the arrangement is AMAZING. I think it's one of their best actually and to compare it to "Rock the Shack" is similarly AMAZING to me.

the lyrics are pretty poor, but not his worst.

[thinks about the "death inflation" line]

actually, no, they're rank. appalling.

that said: the key reasons i dislike it are because i think the melody's insipid and the arrangement is overly slick and cheesy (the backing vocals! eew!) that said, i admit my comparison with RTS doesn't stand up on any real level other than "here are two songs by new order that i don't like".

"Rock the Shack" is great, one of the highlights of Get Ready (which I think is a very good album).

we've done that one, ad infinitum, elsewhere :)

I know, just saying...

the original is like the instrumental on the 2nd cd of 'substance'... only with vocals.
but the singing/talking is so embarrassing that it is almost another song for me. it totally destroys it for me. and there are differences in the use of the synthesizer. i don't like the sound on the single. it somehow seems wrong.

forget it. maybe i am just confused...

the 'confusion' edit on youtube upfronts the vocals more than the actual record, sounds slightly different inevitably. personally it has big associations, being the first record i bought of theirs, and it got me into electro, but remains a total favourite anyway.

Man, that "Confusion" video, awesome.

It's got a very Saturday Night Fever thing going on.

You left "Murder" off. I'm sure it's on my version!

-- Mark G, Wednesday, 14 November 2007 20:14 (1 week ago) Bookmark Link

Murder is a b-side, so it's on disc 2 of the cd set

-- nate woolls, Wednesday, 14 November 2007 20:32 (1 week ago) Bookmark Link

Actually, you are right, but I'm sure it's on the first tape of my 2 cassette version...

*** Original boxed-cassette format with unique packaging deleted. Also
released in 2 standard forms; blue+red sides, black sides. The first
pressing may have Murder on tape 1.

ah HA! Thought so!

coo!

of course, that would make sense, 'cos murder was certainly not a B-side. it's also an oft-overlooked piece of wonder.

The rest of that article page says that "The Perfect Kiss" and others were edited down as they didn't have enough space on CD1. That would also explain why Murder got bounced down.

yes: also explains why certain tracks (mesh, mis-titled as cries and whispers; dubvulture) are missing from the CD but not the tape.

the neworderstory anecdote is that the whole thing only came about because wilson got a CD player for his car and didn't have anything to listen to on it :)

radiohead's Ceremony cover then

not heard it!