Best Pigfuck Band

Cop Shoot Cop Shoot Cop Shoot Cop Shoot Cop Shoot Cop Shoot Cop Shoot Cop Shoot Cop Shoot Cop Shoot Cop Shoot fucking Cop!

room 429

Killdozer pretty much define Pigfuck so I went for them. We need an Arsequake poll too, what was the difference again?

Haha there are flaws at every turn when you write up a list of these bands and then try and find a common thread, but that appeals to me

xpost was about to mention Arsequake, was it a Reynoldsism? I know it included The Young Gods so it must have meant something marginally different

I don't know about that genre tag but the Birthday Party is the best band on that list by about a mile, and I say that as a a huge fan of at three other bands on it

this one is truly impossible. cannot choose from The Birthday Party / Flipper / Swans (early) / Big Black / Butthole Surfers/ Foetus / Wiseblood etc.

aresquake would add skinny puppy, young gods, world domination enterprises etc. would it not?

Pigfuck moment #1 : David Yow telling a child abuse joke from the stage, Jesus Lizard, London, 1993-ish.

Pigfuck moment #2 : PW Long telling a racist joke from the stage, Mule, London, 1995-ish.

Arsequake would add Adrian Sherwood, Front 242 yadda yadda as well I suppose. Never really took off as a genre in the way that, say, goth did.

Pigfuck moment #3 : Michael ira waving his arse at the audience before the power was cut by the police due to noise complaints from half a mile away, Swans, London, 1987.

Gira, sorry.

Pigfuck moment #4 : Gibby Haynes setting fire to himself while a nude dancer with a shaved head and stick-on Fu Manchu beard gyrates in front of a film of penis reconstruction surgery, 15 minutes into a grinding boogie number, Butthole Surfers, London, 1987.

i guess Pigfuck moment #4 has swung my vote for the buttholes.

melvins!

Pigfuck bands that didn't quite make the poll : Barkmarket, Big'n, Daddy Longhead, Reverb Motherfuckers, Shorty, everything else that ever came out on Amphetemaine Reptile or Skin Graft.

Pigfuck moment #5 : Killdozer performing "American Pie" in its entirety in front of a confederate flag on some godawful Channel 4 "yoof" show, 1989.

Killdozer, EASILY. Birthday Party a better band, but didn't they predate all those other bands by years?

the problem w/most of these bands is they fancied themselves dangerous and transgressive when they were really more than anything else: assholes. some of the music is great tho.

If Flipper count, where is No Trend? :( /obligatory moaning

I just downladed TMH from some blog or other yesterday, coincidentally.

Flipper's my fave on the list, but I don't think their slo-core (or whatever the hell people called it back then) quite counts. So it's Big Black for me.

Pigfuck moment #4 : Gibby Haynes setting fire to himself while a nude dancer with a shaved head and stick-on Fu Manchu beard gyrates in front of a film of penis reconstruction surgery, 15 minutes into a grinding boogie number, Butthole Surfers, London, 1987.

ha -- I saw that tour when it plowed through the midwest (Newport Music Hall, Columbus Ohio - `87).

Brilliant. I'm stil voting for Cop Shoot Cop, though.

This is really nightmarishly impossible for me. I'm voting for Foetus, but this is a good example of why ilx polls need the rate your top ten option.

Also, it warms my heart to see Barkmarket in print again, even if it's in the "didn't quite make the poll" category.

i voted flipper, i like pussy galore and happy flowers a lot too
i've never listened to more than half of these though!

big black

Great list, takes me back. Now for the obligatory what no Claw Hammer? Vertigo? Nice Strong Arm? Babes in Toyland? Band of Susans? Live Skull? Die Kreuzen???

Voting for Laughing Hyenas.

Flipper

Poison Idea?

Do the Melvins really belong here?

I'm loving these pigfuck moments.

Do the Melvins really belong here?

"Basically The Birthday Party, Flipper or bands heavily influenced by either of them" would cover that I'd say

Claw Hammer? too crap
Vertigo? too nice
Nice Strong Arm? too post-punk
Babes in Toyland? too grunge
Band of Susans? too arty
Live Skull? too no-wave
Die Kreuzen??? too serious

Forgot Oxbow, darn.

Poison Idea? too punk, ditto Big Boys etc

This is really hard, I like a lot of these bands. I'm leaning towards Big Black, if only because they introduced me to all of this stuff. Then Killdozer does seem like the consummate Pigfuck Band as has been stated. Flipper and The Birthday Party deserve consideration for inadvertently getting the thing going. That said The Jesus Lizard is probably the band on here that I listen to the most.

I really need to think about this.

Some omissions: Drunks With Guns, Stick Men With Ray Guns.

Guess there's not much love for Lubricated Goat then. 'Twas always thus.

Pigfuck moment #6 - David Yow rushes out on stage with a six pack of beer, opens one and drinks from it, then proceeds to toss the rest can by can out into the all ages crowd. Jesus Lizard are permanently banned from the venue. Eugene, OR 1992.

***

Since it's your list, I voted from the alotted choices and Birthday Party (the Beatles of noise) win by a landslide.

I'll assume the handful of artists I haven't heard on this list (Artphag?) are not about to dethrone them.

vic liking happy flowers is just... amazing. A+

How do I choose among Melvins, Killdozer, Buttholes and Jesus Lizard?

Mr. Horribly Charred Infant is an acquaintance of mine. He's really nice in person.

Claw Hammer? too crap
Vertigo? too nice
Nice Strong Arm? too post-punk
Babes in Toyland? too grunge
Band of Susans? too arty
Live Skull? too no-wave
Die Kreuzen??? too serious

Nicely played! I agree with everything you say except each instance of "too" and your use of "crap" to describe Claw Hammer who were great.

mr. hci posted here i think

Whatever happened to the Happy Flowers?

ned scared him off, as usual

do halo of flies count? or too garage?

Still thinking if early White Zombie shoulda been on this list...

I have it on good authority that several of the members of these bands have in fact never had sex with a pig.

define pig

Lydia Lunch doesn't count

I think the Birthday Party, Swans and the Jesus Lizard are at the same level of quality as, if not higher than, Big Black, but I probably listen to Big Black the most of these bands so Big Black it shall be.

When times are tough, there's always Jesus Lizard records and memories of debauchorous shows at Lounge Ax in Chicago - they get most turntable time for me outta tha batch so they get the vote - but mad pigfuck props to the Butts, Killdozer, Scratch Acid, Big Black, Shellac, Swans and Melvins.

Hey, that took longer than it ordinarily should have.

That Bogshed thread is great - I think most of the bands on it were too weedy to be pigfuck (unless that was yr point re: "British equivalent", which would make sense I guess)

Membranes maybe, I dunno.

The Accused & Prong are pretty much straight up crossover/metalcore really?

The correct answer is ... Cows

Ditto. I still laugh every time I think of Shannon's hangman arm tattoo, with F_CK lettered underneath. (And he lost the game!) Saw them three times with highlights being Michigan Student Union in '93-94 (cavernous ballroom with the sound echoing all round until it was a big ball of reverberent sludge) and CBGB's in '97 or so.

By number of times I still listen to them, my runner ups would be The Jesus Lizard, Butthole Surfers, Laughing Hyenas, but ultimately find them too prog, too psych-edeli-otic, too strung out (in that order). The one time I saw the Hyenas live, they must have been sweating heroin as three of their biggest "fans" nodded off at the bar in the middle of the set. Rock and Roll!!!

Actually the Stretchheads would be a pretty good British equivalent - they had an EP called Barbed Anal Exciter for a start.

CHUCK JESUS LIZARD WERE AWESOME AND GREAT AND MAYBE YOU NEED MORE JESUS LIZARD RECORDS AND THE FIRST SCRATCH ACID EP IS NOT THE BEST THING SCRATCH ACID DID BESERKER IS THE BEST THING SCRATCH ACID DID.

I think of Stretchheads as more of a precursor to bands like The Locust and Holy Molar and Ex Models and stuff like that, but I'm down with all of it

The Accused & Prong are pretty much straight up crossover/metalcore really?

They both seemed pretty jagged to me, at least early on, though it's been forever since I listened to the Accused. Prong, though, started out as a noisy lower east side art band, right? Just like White Zombie -- it wasn't til later on that the metal fans (or maybe even the hardcorps kids) caught on.

Band who released their debut album in 1987 and who, thanks mainly to their lyrics, I remember having a conversation with somebody in Ann Arbor (probably Barry Hennsler of the Necros, who loved them, and whose own band existed somewhere on the pigfuck periphery) that they were a major label equivalent of pigfuck: Guns N Roses.

The first Prong album is pretty much standard hardcore.

Although they were on The End Of Music As We Know It comp

There wouldn't have been a huge gap between GnR and the Necros at that point, either

Prong's debut EP (and an earlier demo I heard, and I'm pretty sure I wrote about in Creem Metal) didn't sound like standard hardcore to me -- it was artier and weirder, like the first Die Kreuzen album or something. (Though maybe some people consider that standard hardcore, in the Void sense.)

VOID should've really been mentioned already now you say it

Band who released their debut album in 1987 and who, thanks mainly to their lyrics, I remember having a conversation with somebody in Ann Arbor (probably Barry Hennsler of the Necros, who loved them, and whose own band existed somewhere on the pigfuck periphery) that they were a major label equivalent of pigfuck: Guns N Roses.

HA! Yes, it was a certainly confusing time all around when GnR first started getting noticed. I knew about the Spin Magazine cover/New York Dolls comparisons, but this comment is way more far out.

The genre-ization ghetto that hadn't yet developed in the pre-Pixies/Nirvana major label era, when the future of the rock scene was pretty much seen as the major label glam metal on one side and true indie bands on the other, made GnR a square peg in a round hole.

Well if we're expanding this to include obnoxious/violent/noisy hardcore there's probably a thousand bands we could add!

xpost

Duff was a product of "pre-grunge Seattle" musically speaking, altho I don't think any of his bands were hugely relevant to what's being talked about here

With Void I'm thinking of the fact that they could play a fair bit and didn't feel the need to hide the fact they were into their metal. Touch And Go were gonna put out their second album but they decided it was "too metal" and it never got released

I dunno the Fartz weren't a million miles from Void.

xpost re Duff

xp: He was in the Fartz, who were on Let Them Eat Jellybeans, which also included Flipper! (Though I don't know if he was in that version of the Fartz.)

The Fartz were not on Let Them Eat Jellybeans!

Oh shit, you're right -- I was thinking of the Feederz! My bad.

(Actually I don't think I ever actually heard the Fartz. Though I have heard farts.)

They were on Alternative Tentacles though, close enough :)

Amor Fati - can't remember, maybe never heard 'em

rectify this. great lost band. probably not "pigfuck", however, (too arty and atmospheric) but kudos to chuck for bringing them up. s: against nature.

a more aggressive amor fati side project was the will to live ep. it is freaking awesome, lost classic.

I remember hearing the term "pigfuck" thrown around while listening to this stuff back in the 80s. I always thought it was a stupid term, a name that people who didn't like the stuff would call it. maybe it was a byproduct of a dumb joke of the early 80s...

what's the difference between a pig and a punk rocker?
a pig won't have sex with a punk rocker.

agree with bendy that the more common term was "noise rock". pussy galore and the first couple of white zombie records were pigfuck, but that's when the original scene was dying out, replaced with a second wave of ironic, self-aware practicioners of the sport (pg, wz, dig dat hole, unsane, cop shoot cop, etc).

I'd say the first wave was done by '86/'87. scratch acid / big black break up, buttholes release their last t&g lp, sy's sister and swans' children of god indicate "maturity" and "development", die kreuzen start sucking, etc.

Anyone know another long lost post-Flipper band called Artacus Eaght? They were OK.

Big Stick - big wigs will never be pigfuck
Feedtime - borderline, too much rock, not enough scuzz
Phantom Tollbooth - too indie
Amor Fati - see above
Head of David - yes yes yes
Young Gods - respected but not accepted
Einsturzende Neubauten - kissing cousin
Prong - too many riffs, not enough scuzz, if ted parsons wasn't their drummer they wouldn't even be on this list
The Accused - hardcore
The Scientists - early stuff no, but once kim salmon decided he was going to out cave nick cave circa human jukebox, yes
Couch Flambeau - you can't be pigfuck with a french word in your band name
Rancid Vat - harcore
Antiseen - hardcore

and y'all forgot blacksnakes, king snake roost, of cabbages & kings, dig dat hole, and probably a couple of others I can post once I flip through my record collection...

also, pigfuck is alive and living in providence:

www.myspace.com/tinselteethy

King Snake Roost are a great one. Their album on AmRep has many qualities

Freedom Fighters were the most underrated Am Rep band ever.

See all y'all pigfuckers next week (one hopes!).

and y'all forgot blacksnakes, king snake roost, of cabbages & kings, dig dat hole, and probably a couple of others I can post once I flip through my record collection...

Now we're talkin'.

Shithaus

http://i5.photobucket.com/albums/y176/edwardiii/shithauszz3.jpg

What, if any, influence did this stuff have on death metal?

goin' way back to the early days of '85 and the black snakes

(to the tune of just-ice's "going way back")

What, if any, influence did this stuff have on death metal?

0.0

although rick rubin was in hose and he produced reign in blood, so....

Really? Is that even possible? I mean, even bluegrass must've had some miniscule influence on d-m.

xp

What, if any, influence did this stuff have on death metal?

None, as far as I can tell.

yeah, I'm just fucking with you JN$OT. define influence and define death metal? and if noise rock influenced death metal as much as bluegrass, why is that interesting? hardcore had more of an influence on both noise rock and death metal in different ways. when I was listening to morbid angel and unsane I never heard any commonality of influence, aside from some black flag/negative approach somewhere back in the gene pool...

I knew some death metal musicians back in the day who listened to cop shoot cop and big black, but I don't know that that "influenced" them any more than their listening to nwa and public enemy did.

to be continued...

Automatic thread bump. This poll's results are now in.

<i>"I think of Stretchheads as more of a precursor to bands like The Locust and Holy Molar and Ex Models and stuff like that, but I'm down with all of it"</i>

I have never heard the Stretchheads but Alan (singer of Khanate and O.L.D.) says that my old band Point Line Plane (Skin Graft) sounded like a "new wave Stretch Heads". He was pretty excited when he said it so I assume it's a good thing.

But then there's the Chuck Eddy VV one-liner review "(Skin Graft post-industrial prog-drone indie-rock goth-punk techno-metal album)"

Thanks Chuck!

As for "most-underrated AmRep band ever", I would give that to Servotron.

Amor Fati - can't remember, maybe never heard 'em

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RJcAI3m9XWA

This here copy of Microsoft Works autochanges 'pigfuck' to 'pigfish' so I guess all this talk has been for nothing :(

This was discovered while writing a review of the pretty good new PW Long album, in the unlikely event that anyone was wondering

also, pigfuck is alive and living in providence:

www.myspace.com/tinselteethy

― Edward III, Friday, 30 November 2007 16:59 (2 years ago)

still true btw

http://i5.photobucket.com/albums/y176/edwardiii/IMG_0525-1.jpg

Pigfuck moment #1 : David Yow telling a child abuse joke from the stage, Jesus Lizard, London, 1993-ish.

Oh god, I was at that show and I had totally forgotten about that. Punchline was something like 'Presumptuous? Isn't that an awfully big word for a ten year old?' amirite? Also he got his balls out that night. Mind you, this might describe any Jesus Lizard show for all that I know.

I don't know who that is in (e_3)'s foto, but gosh-darn it, I like them!