TS: Dillinger Escape Plan vs. Converge

Sludge = Grunge? Sounds about right.

DEP for me too. Their 3 song/8 minute EP beats most everything Converge has ever done. Only the last Converge is really worth looking into, though it is very good. Those first two tracks are monsters.

New trends: Samples of girls screaming. Bands who can't really play all that well trying to be technical; i.e. CRAZY TIME SIGNATURES.

Anyway, Converge are a metal/hardcore band that have been around for many years now. Their last album, Jane Doe, is the only one I really like, though they have had their moments before ("The Saddest Day", "Locust Reign"). Jane Doe is about where they started throwing some grind elements into the mix with some experimentation with different textures and slower rhythms (I think at least one of them is in Old Man Gloom, which is along the lines of Isis, so it makes sense). They also pull off the crazy time signatures thing fairly well. Download the first two tracks if you want a taste.

But if you don't like screamed vocals, stay away. Converge's vocals have a very raw sound to them; as if the singer's throat has given out but he keeps yelling anyway. This used to bother me, actually, until me friend pointed out that they sound like a hardcore version of Brian Johnson (!) which is pretty great.

Converge!

Right now, it's Dillinger for me. A year ago, I would have said Converge.

I haven't enjoyed Dillinger since the old singer left.

Converge are one of the consistently best bands in the world.

^^^^ that about sums it up.

Converge all the way, though I like the new DEP too.

i like old dillinger better than old converge, but new converge much better than new dillinger

DEP's new album is out today. anybody heard it yet? i only have Calculating but want to hear more of their stuff.

Yeah, it's awesome

Also Dillinger >>>>>>> Converge

and I LOVE Converge

I've heard mixed things about the new one, but I've yet to listen myself. I'll be heading out to pick it up tomorrow.

i'm purchasing on ITunes now cuz it comes with a digital book. think im gonna go see them on their tour tho.

I like Converge too. anybody like I Wrestled a Bear Once?

I wouldn't say "like", but I keep going back to Iwrestledabearonce to see why it intrigues me so.

i haven't listened to much of this type of music in ten years. I'm playing Calculating Infinity for the first time in probably a decade and I think I have more appreciation fori tn ow than I did then (and I liked it then, saw them when Dimitri was still in the band)

so ITunes is taking forever. so...let me get this straight, this mathcore shit DEP did on Calculating Infinity, I'm NOT going to hear on their other albums?

You will, just not nearly as much. Also, Greg is quite a different singer/screamer to Dmitri.

Then again, I'm saying that having not heard the new one. But based on the last two...

not so long ago, this would have been DEP, no contest. converge have really battered their way into my affections of late. 'axe to fall' was totally killer. haven't heard option paralysis yet though.

DEP got off to a shaky start once greg joined. 'miss machine' was a bit of an underwhelming mess, but 'ire works' was much more focused and harsh, and yet full of improbable pop (ish) hooks too. loved it.

'calculating infinity' and 'irony is a dead scene' are still their bet work though.

Right now, it's Dillinger for me. A year ago, I would have said Converge.

― A. Begrand, Saturday, December 29, 2007 12:08 AM (2 years ago)

Axe to Fall destroys Option Paralysis. Funny how things change.

haven't liked the last two dillinger albums, although i like Greg as a live vocalist. Suppose I'll listen to this new one. DEP were my favourite band in the whole wide world when i was 16. converge are aight.

hoo boy, not too keen on this on first listen.

New DEP is definitely a step back from Ire Works, which was the first album by them I really liked. Axe to Fall, meanwhile, is fucking godlike.

man, I can't even imagine siding with DEP like I did 7 years ago!

last.fm sez:
Converge (428 plays)
The Dillinger Escape Plan (211 plays)

closer than I would have expected. I thought ire works was really strong and played it a bunch when it came out. but I haven't liked much else they've done since the calculating infinity days.

converge have had a pretty amazing streak going for a while now.

man, I listened to so much of this stuff in lolcollege

am also kinda shocked by how much converge have improved as players. the early stuff is pretty freakin' sloppy!

never got the big fuss over Axe to Fall. I prefer the three preceding LPs. Ire Works has turned out to be one of my fave metal records of the last decade.

ire works was a huge record for me, i definitely think it's dillinger's best yet. option paralysis is really good, but i haven't had enough time to sit with it to really put it into a better perspective than that. i like that they're not repeating themselves, but at the same time i can see why people think that this record is a regression of sorts as it focuses a lot more on the mathcore side of dillinger than their pop side. on ire works they balanced both sides really well; the album had a much better flow to it, and hearing them weave in and out of each song effortlessly is still thrilling to me. there's something about the way OP is a much more difficult listen, especially when juxtaposed with IW, that makes me appreciate what they're doing instead of just writing it off as regression. it's longer, its their most abrasive since calculating infinity, it's basically a bitch to listen to, and it takes balls to make a record like that. especially when the payoff is as good as it is.

oh, and i can't choose between converge or dillinger.

that's interesting... I'd head exactly the opposite, that OP is even poppier and less abrasive than IW. haven't heard it yet, but it's curious that it's got a rashomon thing going on.

HEARD, that is.

I like all DEP I've decided....well teh studio albums at least.

I wanted to buy Under the Running Board but the only copy I see is a re-released version with 13 bonus tracks. Seriously, fuck you record label, now I get to pay 13 bucks for an album that was originally ten minutes long. I may just pay+download it on ITunes.

I mean is there anything wrong with a cd that JUST LASTS TEN MINUTES! It's perfect for my drives to work!

running board is still probably my fave thing they've done. the 10min length actually plays right to their strengths! total adrenaline rush with no time for the listener to get bored/irritated.

I hate all of you. I spent ungodly amounts of money due to the praise heaped on the remaining discography of both groups. Already had Jane Doe but hadn't listened in like 7 years. That is criminal.

you all are right about Ire works though, that sucker is amazing.

@Alan: I have always had an appreciation for short E.P.s like that because they're a quick rush to the head and that's it - no need to sit and absorb ambience for a half hour or anything, and great for short car rides.

Why the record label had to ruin that with a ridiculous reissue that triples the length of the album is beyond me. I'm going to get myself a proper copy. If I want the bonus tracks I'll d/l them.

I wanted to buy Under the Running Board but the only copy I see is a re-released version with 13 bonus tracks. Seriously, fuck you record label, now I get to pay 13 bucks for an album that was originally ten minutes long. I may just pay+download it on ITunes.

buy the vinyl then!
http://shop.relapse.com/store/product.aspx?ProductID=19929

@Alan: I have always had an appreciation for short E.P.s like that because they're a quick rush to the head and that's it - no need to sit and absorb ambience for a half hour or anything, and great for short car rides.

oh, definitely. have a serious soft spot for grind/hardcore 7"s for this reason.

well, not the car part. kinda hard to play those things in my car.

"Dead As History" is so so so so good, maybe could do without the weird singing-saw bit but a flaming incredible piece of music otherwise, up there with the EP, maybe even better

Converge!

I have quite a lot of Converge and I'm yet to really listen to it. Maybe I could start today.

(Which album is best to begin with? I have Jane Doe, You Fail Me and Axe To Fall)

listen to all three in that order.

shall do

converge!!

And it's not even close.

this seems to be the only DEP thread, so as good a place as any to mention that the album from Greg Puciato's gothy synth-pop side project The Black Queen is really nice

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=L7gqlB0FW8k

um...the new (final) album is amazing then

yeah it's really good, I love "Low Feels Blvd" in particular

still think Ire Works was their apex

no dimitri no party

Puciato's first solo record is imminent. DEP-meets-Godflesh vibes on the single

https://youtu.be/kcq8ooRTRpw

greg puciato released like 90 minutes of wildly eclectic solo material last year which was just a baffling decision, but I'm convinced this trimmed down and expertly* sequenced version of that content dump is the equal of any DEP album.

https://open.spotify.com/playlist/4tHvaHdv24WI8MiUrAoXwm

the way he's combining metal and synth-pop sounds to me like ulver's blood inside with a gym membership. the second half of "through the walls" is, no joke, a total dead ringer for Men I Trust. "you know I do" sounds like his attempt to rewrite Smashing Pumpkins' "shame". "a pair of questions" is such a good fucking song that I listened to so often last summer, it actually made my tracks ballot (despite my knowing it would receive 0 other votes). if you're at all into alt-metal this is absolutely worth 48 minutes of yr time.

idk why I've turned out to be such a weird puciato stan I just think he's a real good songwriter

now that DEP is gone can we all admit Converge won this even though I don't think their last album was up to the standard of everything they did prior?

early Dillinger with Dimitri is basically my favourite metal ever so I would not go with converge

that's one out of six releases tho!

there's an ep too lol

it's only 8 minutes long mind you

ahh yes Under the Running Board.

I actually did see DEP on the Dmitri tour, one of the few cool things I can brag about. he threatened about 43% of the audience at various points of the show.

on the Calculating Infinity tour I mean, not the "Dmitry" tour wtf