Cohen-Waits-Walker

Scott! No contest!!

Paul Heaton

Tom Waits doesn't belong within a million miles of the other two. What have any of them got in common?

music for mondeo-deniers

They were all DJs on Radio Forth in the late seventies. How we used to chuckle at Leonard Cohen's Comedy Corner of a Sunday lunchtime, followed by two hours of Scott's Sport and finally Tam's Tasty Trippers; I recall that he was particularly keen on Frankie Miller.

none of them are Great Artists. Waits.

none of them are Great Artists.

what the fuck does this even mean.

They're not Paul Heaton

Well have you ever seen Rolf recreate a Leonard Cohen painting in Trafalgar Square? I think not.

what the fuck does this even mean.

you're a big girl, you can figure it out. but i'll make it easy - none of them have made a really great album, and even in singles form they're just another notable artist.

How many really great albums have you ever made?

tbh i think they all basically suck, but not as much anyone who gets called a Great Artist.

Scott! No contest!!

^^^^^
truth

none of them have made a really great album

nonsense. scott alone has made at least six really great albums.

isn't the answer to this basically whose accent/affect you like best?

the answer is who you think is best -- or worst.

Give me that Ohio accent every time

YOU DON'T HAVE TO KEEP MENTIONING PAUL HEATON OKAY?

Why do they all basically suck?

Give me that Ohio accent every time

brits for walker, of course

http://www.bbc.co.uk/herefordandworcester/content/images/2007/04/18/dads_army_walker_150_150x200.jpg

They all pale next to the unanswerable majesty of Biffy Clyro.

http://newsimg.bbc.co.uk/media/images/39278000/jpg/_39278525_walker1_story203.jpg

"Tom Waits doesn't belong within a million miles of the other two."

Aaaah c'mon - I know he's better than them, but he ain't that much better than them!

i think it's cohen on account of him not having a silly voice.

Wait, which one of these guys did "Movin' Out (Anthony's Song)"?

Scott's the only one who could have

None of them can hold a candle to angry punk rocker Billy Joel. "JFK! BLOWN AWAY! WHAT ELSE DO I HAVE TO SAY?" That's telling those Famous Blue Raincoats who's boss!

taking sides: Robbie Williams vs Scott Walker

i don't listen to Cohen or Walker, so Waits.

I would call Leonard Cohen a great artist, in fact, because of the awesome and detailed artistry that he put into many of his songs (and novels and poems). If anything is not great it is "albums"

i love leonard cohen, but if i quietly acknowledge that he put out a lot of shit, it narrows it down to walker and waits.

and in such a play off, waits has to win, because even if i obsess over 'the drift' and tell all my friends about it, i can't vote against tom

Next year it's the Swordfishtrombones Silver Jubilee: the 25th anniversary of Tom Waits making the same album over and over.

poor form kid

Yes, I wouldn't say Tom Waits has been making the same album over and over again, he's branched out into other areas I've disliked just as much

Contest to be decided on Saturday's X-Factor:

- Rhydian will essay "Dress Rehearsal Rag"
- Leon to tackle "Shore Leave"
- Same Difference to perform "Jolson And Jones"

TW only actually re-made Swordfishtrombones twice (Rain Dogs and Frank's Wild Years); and Rain Dogs is actually substantially better (if you can take something that's already great and make it even better, then that's sufficient justification for doing so in my book).

Big Time doesn't count as a re-make because it was a live album.

Tom Waits is the kind of artist who should maybe only make one album every 50 years.

Cohen

sorry, i don't get the tom waits hatred.

Some people just don't like him

in any case i'll probably vote waits, as i only have one album each by cohen and walker, both of which are excellent, though. i've got about 7 or 8 waits albums and i love them all.

Indifference rather than hatred, really.

Like too many artists these days, he was perfectly fine until he started making records for Wire readers.

The correct answer is Joe Frank.

Like too many artists these days, he was perfectly fine until he started making records for Wire readers.

what does this mean?

Surely Scott Walker is the one who's making records for Wire readers?

Nobody else is buying them!

You're probably right there but he doesn't do Corporate/Cosmetic Weird like Laswell, Sakamoto, Waits, Stereolab and so forth.

"Contest to be decided on Saturday's X-Factor:"

Brilliant idea, but I don't agree with your song choices. I reckon it should be:

Rhdyian - "Farmer In the City"
Leon - "The Piano Has Been Drinking (Not Me)"
Same Difference - "Sisters Of Mercy"

And Leon could rename it "The Panel Has Been Drinking (Not Me)"

i'd grant waits 7 great albums, and walker and cohen 2 a-piece.

Cohen's the one I find least totally fucking ridiculous.

i think of being totally fucking ridiculous as being the raison d'être of all three of these fine artists.

Cohen > Waits >>>> Walker

Though for many years, Waits would have beat out Cohen. I really only like the "weird" Waits records (though "Alice" is fairly conventionally pretty & I love that one.) For whatever reason I can't get as into the sadman piano bar stuff. Cohen's first two records are 100% solid classics, and I've never felt that way about anything by Scott Walker.

Cohen, just.

His being a Jewish French Canadian Buddhist Poet was the tiebreaker for me. And for singing about Janis Joplin giving him head.

none of them have made a really great album

u fool

I bet I would like some Cohen and Waits stuff, if I bothered to really dig in. Judging solely on the stuff I've heard, though, I've gotta go with Walker on this one.

Leonard Cohen: beautiful, natural voice. Lovely instrumentation up until The Future, but despite all these MIDI keyboards the work still holds up due to the power of the lyrics... One of Us Cannot Be Wrong = greatest song ever.

Unlike Tom Waits, who writes the odd great tune, recycling ancient criminal cant into something golden (e.g. Walking Spanish Down the Hall and most of the rest of Raindogs) - but has a disturbing predeliction for appaling schmaltz that makes me want to crush his throad (e.g. that song about "what happens to the boys that don't comb their hair?" and House where Nobody Lives, Downtown Train). C'mon - who gets off on that sentimental crap? I can't imagine most folks who appreciate good music curling up by a log fire to listen shed a tear to that boys-who-don't-comb-their-hair rubbish.

As for Walker solo - I've never got past his upappealing, plummy, affected croon. Montague Terrace in Blue is OK, I suppose... as is his version of Amsterdam, but not a patch on Brel.

For the record, I'm drunk and opinionated.

Automatic thread bump. This poll is closing tomorrow.

Rombald utterly wrong about Tom IMHO - Walking Spanish is a snoozefest. Cod-something-or-other boorishness and probably one of his worst songs. Most of his other stuff is awesomahj.

they're all very great.

Walker > Waits >>>Cohen >>>>>>>>>....∞....>>>>>>>>that one guy that hit it and quit it.

Tom is almost as great as Scott but a new SW album would be a must hear. a new TW album would be worth hearing if you could be bothered getting round to it.

also: Franks Wild Years>>>>>>>> Rain Dogs>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>SFtrombones.

neither Walker nor Waits can really hope to stand in Cohen's shadow as a lyricist, but there's more to music than lyrics

Cohen has the best debut. Scotty has the best song (Cowbells Shakin' mostly for the immortal line Your headwaiter brother won't give me a job) Tom has the best album and best career so he wins!

neither Walker nor Waits can really hope to stand in Cohen's shadow as a lyricist

True fact. I voted for Cohen.

but there's more to music than lyrics

-- J0hn D.

!?!

All these guys, the persona can overwhelm the songwriting. Cohen's songs seem the most flexible outside the persona, but Waits (or Waits/Brennan) have racked up the largest set of great music. A lot of chaff and overly mannered stuff, too. Walker, I haven't found a way in, though I haven't put a ton of effort into it either. The 10 best Cohen songs are better than the 10 best of the other two. Cohen.

Walker > Waits >>>Cohen >>>>>>>>>....∞....>>>>>>>>that one guy that hit it and quit it.

-- jed_, Monday, December 17, 2007 12:48 AM (2 hours ago)

where did you get an infinity key and can i have one

"Tom Waits" ... is this some kind of joke ?

loser doesn't belong within a million miles of the other two.

and yet, there he is.
Tom Waits.

cohen in a fucking walk

Cohen>>Waits>>>>Walker (who I can only appreciate on a camp level but I get the impression that most of his supporters woud be offended by that)

wow. really surprised at all the Waits hate here. I mean, I can't stand him but...

I guess I'll go Walker for being involved in the only song any of these dudes ever did that I actually enjoy hearing ("The Sun Ain't Gonna Shine Anymore"), though I'm woefully unfamiliar with his solo catalog.

Walker on the account that his music, even his old stuff, is so uniquely weird.

I enjoy Waits in doses, but his schtick has been beaten so deeply into the ground that I can't get too excited about him these days.

The Cohen stuff I've heard I really like (first three albums), but I get bored with it quickly. Kinda samey, which is to expect from spare, folky stuff I suppose. Still, I dig him and enjoy his lyrics.

So in conclusion: Walker>Cohen>Waits.

neither Walker nor Waits can really hope to stand in Cohen's shadow as a lyricist

True fact. I voted for Cohen.

but there's more to music than lyrics

-- J0hn D.

!?!

not sure whether this is a mild elbow-to-the-ribs over my known lyrics-first bias, but: Cohen writes lovely understated melodies, but is musically the least interesting of the the three to me - dude leans even harder on the I/IV/I/V than me, which is saying something.

I still voted Cohen because lyrically he has pretty much no competition at all. Also because owing to that whole thing with his manager a few years back he can really use the money he'll get from winning this contest.

not sure whether this is a mild elbow-to-the-ribs over my known lyrics-first bias

Yeah, mostly that. However: sure, it goes like this the fourth the fifth, but I think Cohen wrote I IV V songs that are good enough that I don't really hear them as I IV V songs (which is no small feat). Plus he wrote plenty of interesting chord progressions and unexpected melodies. Sisters of Mercy is a great one, and Suzanne has weird changes, plus all those cool minor key tunes like Famous Blue Raincoat and Everybody Knows and First We Take Manhattan. I mean, Brian Wilson he's not, but I think he threw in lots of tasty curveballs.

Automatic thread bump. This poll's results are now in.

this is some bullshit

Man, I guess I should have voted, but I couldn't decide between Cohen and Walker. Still can't really, but seeing Tom Waits placing on top of Leonard Cohen is filling me with rage and sadness.

hahaha, hooray! ILM wins again!

I'm not that into Waits' schtick, but I don't care if he's not as great an artiste as Cohen - I'll take him over that depresso pretentious Canadian bullshit any day.

http://www.bowblog.com/archives/images/wrong.jpg

and Cohen's a better songwriter too, obv. get one sense of humor, even a bad one.

Dude, Leonard Cohen is the funniest man ever born!

Ridiculous ILM jokesters strike again!

is there any poll they won't render ridiculous here?

Tom WANKS morelike!

Real results:

Paul Heaton 84
Scott Walker 7
Tom Waits 6
Leonard Cohen 6

Actual results:
Leonard Cohen 6
Tom Waits 6
Scott Walker 7
Paul Heaton 84
LEON 84.5 OH WHAT A SHAME SO CLOSE!

is there any poll they won't render ridiculous here?

co-sign, the sacredness of our poll traditions must be preserved

"and Cohen's a better songwriter too, obv. get one sense of humor, even a bad one."

the ironings are out of control captain!

But Tom Waits loves his mum and he was crying on the show poor lad plus he is FIT

for purpose

Walker (who I can only appreciate on a camp level but I get the impression that most of his supporters woud be offended by that)

Wrong... that his supporters would be offended by that I mean

Or maybe just wrong that some Scott Walker "supporters", would be offended by that. I fear there are some Scott fans who are unable to listen to a Scott Walker album without bursting out laughing at least once.

... strike that last sentence it should read:

I fear there are some Scott fans who are able to listen to a Scott Walker album without bursting out laughing at least once.

It's pretty impossible to deny that those 60s orch pop albums are intrinsically camp, and none the worse for it. There's an interview with him in his sixties heydey on youtube somewhere, and he sounded pretty camp in person as well. The later stuff is a different kettle of fish though: I hear a curdled eroticism in songs like The Electrician or The Cockfighter, but nothing camp.

and who doesn't like their eroticism curdled?

Curdled OR camp is fine with me!