Why don't I like Bob Dylan?

For example, I dislike Pink Floyd because they'e boring, bloated, pretentious, cringeworthy prog-wank twaddle for middle-aged men who like to listen to Dark Side Of The Moon in darkened rooms through expensive headphones so they can 'feel it, man' while smoking a joint and reading The Independent and thinking they're bloody Trotskyist revolutionary intellectuals intent on bringing down capitalism when in fact all they're doing is lining the pockets of wankers and perpetuating the momentum of the economy by supporting one of the biggest global industries. With really long, boring solos, and clean shiny production that has no personality, and bleated platitudes for lyrics that are delivered in a deeply pretentious monotone that's meant to reveal the true profundities of their incredibly inane observations about 'great gigs in the sky' and revolting against authority, and three minutes of G or whatever it is at the start of the album and very very boring and now deeply dated and not releasing singles from it because they're trying to make art instead of pop music and so on and so on and this rant is almost as long and boring and wanky as a Floyd album now so I shall stop.

But I can't come up with any reasons why I dislike Dylan other than the fact that I get bored and want to do summat else when listening to him. Maybe it's the hippy thing.

(and you'll be middle-aged one day too nick)

(why would trots read the independent?)

(and the problem w. dsotm is that it ISN'T "bloated", just dull) (whatever "bloated" actually means)

I kind of have a similar-reversed reaction, though Nick. Everything else in my music taste suggests to me I should not like Dylan, but I love him: he's one of the artists my opinions have changed least on over the last ten years. That thing I wrote about him scratches about as to why I like him but comes out too simplistic in the end I think.

"What's this? Got a good beat to it..."

what is the constitution of this club: as patron saint i am surely not allowed *near* the definition end of things?

Although I must say that while Pink Floyd's motivations (political/emotional/whatever) are more than slightly awry, the music is fucking great.

I'll just add that there is quite a lot of variation in Dylan's output over the years, so you might want to try some albums from different periods before you make a blanket judgment. At this point in time, "Blood on the Tracks" is one of my favorites, but it wasn't always that way. "Highway 61 Revisited" was the album that first got me into Dylan. "John Wesley Harding" might also be a good place to start.

I'd say start with Bringing It All Back Home. Side 1 has some really funny songs (especially the real long one that I can never remember the name of), and Side 2 is sensitive acoustic Dylan at his best. Also see the film "Don't Look Back" if you want to see how creepily charismatic Bob was at the time, with his frizzy hair and dark shades and 'fuck you' attitude. In a lot of ways he was really the original punk.

Pink Floyd are fucking brilliant, what are you guys talking about?

i knew this was going to happen. after a lifetime -- all 32 years of it -- of loudly proclaiming my loathing for the silly-haired auld fuck, i found myself oddly drawn to a best-of.

which i'm listening to now.

and CHIZ CHIZ CHIZ it's actually making a lot of sense and i CURSES am really quite liking it.

i still don't get the grovelling reverence, but this is rather brilliant in parts.

oh -- and really, bob, the harmonica. that's not always strictly necessary.

Thanks for reviving this so i could read Fritz above.

Oh, and Ain't Talkin' from Modern Times is up there with Blind Willie McTell

yeh, the fritz post is fritzin' wonderful. ah, the ILM i never knew.

That Fritz post was a keeper and a half. Had almost forgotten it!

hang on, ned, i thought you'd be crosser here. this nascent acceptance of BD makes me JUDAS, surely?

Dude, like what you like. My opinion hasn't changed but yours is your own, so hey.

heh, ned, you really are the least rile-able dude i know and i salute you heartily for it.

i dunno ... i 1) wish i hadn't invested quite so much hatred in dylan, and 2) wish i could remember quite what inspired such outpourings of bile. probably something to do with old men telling me what i should like, but ... hmm.

of course, perhaps i'm just becoming an old man. that could be it.

There ya go. EMBRACE THE ELD.

My point way up near the top about 'tedious reverence' holds, and lord knows there are things I like that I've gone on about accordingly. (Quite honestly I really don't want to write about Loveless ever again -- it's all said on my end now.) Dylan came down for you and I and a lot of others with an overwhelming amount of that. But I stick with my approval of him as ur-figure/source material, that I'm fine with.

urRaggett, yo.

Worth a read:

http://www.mr-agreeable.net/story.lasso?section=Blog%20Archive&id=103

good lord that fritz post is like the greatest thing ever on this board.

What is fritz calling himself these days?

How cool would Ned look if he frizzed his hair, wore Ray-Bans, and rapped about leaders and parking meters.

ned + parking meters

source

and CHIZ CHIZ CHIZ it's actually making a lot of sense

i know this is part of the tedious reverence but it's true that dylan is one of the few artists that i really went through a CLICK moment with -- where at some point i just felt like i went from not getting it to getting it. the key for me was in the singing.

Weird. I’m not a Dylan fanatic, though I’ve slowly become a fan but I’ve always loved Blood on the Tracks with the exception of Jack of Spades.

That TNR article is the worst kind of tendentious selective quotation.

THE FIRST RULE TO NOTE AT BOB DYLAN'S BOXING club is "Don't talk about it." Membership is invitation only. There's no sign to announce the place, which sits in the basement of the 18th Street Coffee House in Santa Monica.

The business permits for both establishments, as well as one for an adjacent synagogue, are in the name of his manager, Jeff Rosen, who doesn't want to talk about it. ("I know nothing about that.... Can't you find something more interesting to write about?") The wild-haired baristas at the coffeehouse don't want to either. "It's a secret," an ex-waitress says of Dylan's ties to the block.

Of course, half the Westside will tell you Dylan owns the boxing club. The performer's even been spotted here a few times recently. The gym exists as his secret garden of sorts, a shrine to the sport in which Dylan has had a long-abiding interest.

He recorded "Who Killed Davey Moore?" in 1963, after the featherweight champion died from injuries sustained in the ring. In 1964's "I Shall Be Free No. 10," Dylan sings, "I was shadowboxin' early in the day / I figured I was ready for Cassius Clay." Then came "Hurricane," which helped overturn pugilist Rubin Carter's murder conviction; Denzel Washington starred in the Hollywood account of his life.

Inside the fluorescent-washed gym, there's nary a whiff of the shabby, smoky grandeur of typical urban boxing dungeons. But Dylan's presence is all around. As the resident trainer, David Paul, gives a tour of the space, ignoring all the Dylan artifacts--beginning with the photos of Larry Bird and Michael Jordan signed "To Bob" in the reception area--can have the effect of pretending to ignore a fuchsia elephant sitting on your lap.

re: something like "Neighborhood Bully," you'd be in big trouble if you looked to Dylan's songs/career for ANY sort of consistent political world-view. Dude has gone through a lot of different stages iirc.

I would dig 7" edits of all these. I dunno, maybe they exist. I should try to find them.

SUGGEST BAN

― that sex version of "blue thunder." (Mr. Que), Tuesday, December 22, 2009 2:21 PM (5 minutes ago) Bookmark Suggest Ban Permalink

DNFT

― larry craig memorial gloryhole (Shakey Mo Collier), Tuesday, December 22, 2009 2:22 PM (5 minutes ago) Bookmark Suggest Ban Permalink

It's trolling to admit being bored as hell by some long-assed tunes on a thread about not liking the artist in question?

but the last verse of desolation row is the best part!

Which may explain why I've never heard it!

(okay, that's a lie)

describing israel as being like nazi germany

this is not anti-semitic btw

― larry craig memorial gloryhole (Shakey Mo Collier), Tuesday, December 22, 2009 7:22 PM (55 minutes ago) Bookmark

perhaps not in itself, but as part of a bigger line of insinuation... it's an INTERESTING choice of comparison, isn't it, when zizek says israel describes gaza as a concentration camp and says it wants the land 'palestinian-frei'. one could choose other analogies than this.

It's trolling to admit being bored as hell by some long-assed tunes on a thread about not liking the artist in question?

haha sorry man shoulda put x-posts, was referring to the reviver of this thread

still, it does rankle me to suggest an edited "Visions of Johanna"! I mean, the power of that song is the way it builds, you know?

one could choose other analogies than this.

that's true, but the Nazi analogy packs the most rhetorical punch, combining the bitterest of ironies with the most strident of moral condemnations. but what do I know, I haven't even read the piece in question.

I'm just tired of criticism of Israel being treated as de facto anti-semitism, its just a dishonest tactic.

x-post

still, it does rankle me to suggest an edited "Visions of Johanna"! I mean, the power of that song is the way it builds, you know?

x10

i mean, someone who says that Visions should be edited down has gotta be a nazi, am i right?

you are correct

(then again, the Byrds' editing of "Chimes of Freedom" is pretty dead-on, I think I prefer their version. But that's not a fraction the song "Visions" is, of course).

i totally don't understand what's going on here.

Bob Dylan owns diamond mines in Israel and is a nazi.

also his songs are too long

Visions of Johanna is about Nazis

diamond studded nazis

I don't think there's been any mention of this on ILM, so ...
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GCnHcqQFxPY
Bob playing with Van Dyke Parks and Ry Cooder! Would pay at least $15 for an album with these guys.

Jews and binoculars hang from the head of the mule

heres my story about Bob... My first encounter with the guy was with a track in the Natural Born Killers Soundtrack, as a typical teenager I was typically into most of the track on the compilation, but I thought at that time that bob dylan song ("you belong to me") was atrocious, that voice man, was like nails in a fucking chalkboard. he represented everything i hated about music and instantly got shelved in my head as what not to listen to.

Fast Forward 16 years later ... breaking up with my fiancee, up to my eyeballs in a shitty job, a layoff eventually. A friend of mine left Essential Bob Dylan in my stereo. "Jokerman", "Everything is Broken", "Not dark yet" and "Things Have Changed" and ("Im not There (1964)" not on that compilation though) just hitted the spot very nicely, its a great soundtrack when your seeing everything turn inside out, and you just crawl into a bottle of whisky.

Not everything the man has done is sold gold, but just give him a chance you might just eat your words like I did.

Hello from Mexicali Mexico

hello! i think you make a good point. i don't even try to convince people that Bob Dylan is worth listening to anymore. sooner or later, it'll probably hit you.

or maybe it won't! who knows. but if/when it does, you're in for some great music.

T|S it's unfair that you legitimately complain about Israel without being called antisemitic V. You can't legitimately complain about Obama without being called racist -- which is the bigger ignorant challops GO!

thread is mainly valuable in confirming n1ck s0uth4ll as valuable ilx contributor since 2002 imo

Yay!

does he still not like bob dylan?

T|S it's unfair that you legitimately complain about Israel without being called antisemitic

I don't even know what this means

T/S challops vs. strawmen

Blonde on Blonde is good seduction/sex music, honestly

I missed the "can't" but I'm not strawmanning here. If you can't see the difference between legitimate criticisms of Israel and calling Israel palestinina-frei or suggesting that bob dylan secret Israeli contacts hooked him up with an african diamond mine (which IMO is about an antisemitic statement as one can make -- the Jewish singer-songwriter is in cahoots with Israel to get rich off the backs of Africans? wtf??), then I don't know what to tell you.

Bah. Commenting on my iPhone is producing lots of typoes. <3 zing tho

Icalling Israel palestinina-frei

^^^in bad taste but not necessarily anti-semitic as there are a lot of legitimate parallels between the ways the Nazis treated the Jews and the way the Israeli gov't treats the Palestinians.

suggesting that bob dylan secret Israeli contacts hooked him up with an african diamond mine

^^^this is totally anti-semitic because its a completely unfounded attack that is based on deliberate misinformation to reinforce a common Jewish stereotype

Ok, I don't totally disagree with that distinction.

Anyway. I got about three songs in before the interminable boredom took a hold of me, and I had to take it off and put on Mwng by SFA. Anyway. I got about three songs in before the interminable boredom took a hold of me, and I had to take it off and put on Mwng by SFA. Anyway. I got about three songs in before the interminable boredom took a hold of me, and I had to take it off and put on Mwng by SFA. Anyway. I got about three songs in before the interminable boredom took a hold of me, and I had to take it off and put on Mwng by SFA. Anyway. I got about three songs in before the interminable boredom took a hold of me, and I had to take it off and put on Mwng by SFA. Anyway. I got about three songs in before the interminable boredom took a hold of me, and I had to take it off and put on Mwng by SFA. Anyway. I got about three songs in before the interminable boredom took a hold of me, and I had to take it off and put on Mwng by SFA. Anyway. I got about three songs in before the interminable boredom took a hold of me, and I had to take it off and put on Mwng by SFA. Anyway. I got about three songs in before the interminable boredom took a hold of me, and I had to take it off and put on Mwng by SFA. Anyway. I got about three songs in before the interminable boredom took a hold of me, and I had to take it off and put on Mwng by SFA. Anyway. I got about three songs in before the interminable boredom took a hold of me, and I had to take it off and put on Mwng by SFA. Anyway. I got about three songs in before the interminable boredom took a hold of me, and I had to take it off and put on Mwng by SFA. Anyway. I got about three songs in before the interminable boredom took a hold of me, and I had to take it off and put on Mwng by SFA. Anyway. I got about three songs in before the interminable boredom took a hold of me, and I had to take it off and put on Mwng by SFA. Anyway. I got about three songs in before the interminable boredom took a hold of me, and I had to take it off and put on Mwng by SFA. Anyway. I got about three songs in before the interminable boredom took a hold of me, and I had to take it off and put on Mwng by SFA.

He's somewhere out on the highway right now drifting from town to town with eyes steel-grey and impenetrably deep, hunting like a great white wonder for some poor kid in a coffee shop - so easy to spot with their unkempt curly locks and dark sunglasses - some poor sapsucker who swallowed it hook line and sinker. The Man Who Doesn't Like Dylan is here and things will never be the same for any of us, anywhere.

listening to "bringing it all back home again" now. goddamn what a funny, funny album.

calling Israel palestinina-frei

^^^in bad taste but not necessarily anti-semitic as there are a lot of legitimate parallels between the ways the Nazis treated the Jews and the way the Israeli gov't treats the Palestinians.

not really, it's basically an offshoot of holocaust denial - not only are they not victims, jews are the real perpetrators! - and really shouldn't be touched with a bargepole by anyone with the slightest historical or political sense. newspapers in the middle east routinely run cartoons with hook-nosed, vampiric jews wearing stormtrooper helmets with a swastika and a star of david. why would you want to be associated with this shit? it's poisonous rhetoric and making the kind of distinctions you're talking about is like saying "but ronaldinho really does have big teeth!"

i've read some years ago that he owned shares of diamond mines in south-africa

Do you have a source for this?

Suggest Ban Permalink
― Duke, Dienstag, 22. Dezember 2009 19:19 (Yesterday) Bookmark

the source is my corroded memory reading a german print magazine (probably DER SPIEGEL) in the pre-internet era (before 1991).
the reason why i still can remember this, is that i was pretty shocked at the time.
i've spent the last 2 hours searching on google for a reference - sorry to say that i can not provide any.
i have to admit that if someone else would came up with such a story without having any googleproof evidence...well, i would think he's a liar.

"googleproof evidence"

missed the "can't" but I'm not strawmanning here. If you can't see the difference between legitimate criticisms of Israel and calling Israel palestinina-frei or suggesting that bob dylan secret Israeli contacts hooked him up with an african diamond mine (which IMO is about an antisemitic statement as one can make -- the Jewish singer-songwriter is in cahoots with Israel to get rich off the backs of Africans? wtf??), then I don't know what to tell you.

xpost: i'm not aware that Bob has identified as a Jew since before he "turned Christian", anyways

not only are they not victims, jews are the real perpetrators! -

the contention that because someone was once a victim they cannot be perpetrators is wrong - its a fallacy, and its an intellectually dishonest way to defend Israel, in that it deflects attention from the matter at hand (Israel vs. Palestinians) and redirects it to a morally unassailable one (Jews vs. Nazis).

yeah, i'm saying the israel=nazis argument didn't come from a bunch of liberals saying how sad it is that the jews are acting terribly when once they were victims (which certainly has been the case with israel); i'm saying the people who kicked off this line of argument believe the holocaust was a hoax designed to win sympathy for israel while it continues a genocidal campaign cunningly modelled on the very myth that jews supposedly endured.

i agree that it doesn't help to turn people away from the facts of the israel-palestine conflict and onto the morally unassailable case of jews under nazism, which is why i'm the one arguing that people shouldn't make those comparisons. you're the other guy, saying there are "legitimate parallels", albeit in reverse. can you see why there's a pretty ugly context to that line of argument?

just an fyi, mordy otm, s-banning this guy

i've read some years ago that dylan owned cans of Blue Diamond Bold Jalapeno Smokehouse almonds

it just bugs, like an itch you can't scratch. I don't find much in the way of personal connection there, in fact really speaking none, maybe a song or two aside

otm

^ mostly

This is such a great thread. I love that long lyric that scott posted, whatever it is.

I have "personal connections" with few artists though.

scott seward otm for most of this thread too