Horrible "Breakthrough" Records

I cannot say I have ever seen it this way. Depends on your viewpoint. If you are a low-fi-kind-of-guy, you will usually prefer the less slickly produced early pre-breakthru material. And if you are a purist, you may prefer the "pure" first album to later more crossover oriented material. I am neither, and as such I never tend to dislike breakthrough albums.

Ugh the Rollins Band were always bad.

Not lo-fi, not purist. Wishful for more good music by good artists, and then disappointed.

Fishbone had well-produced major label records before "Truth and Soul"--both their debut EP and "In Your Face" are excellent). Rollins' disco pre-"Life Time" was good, too. Artier than LT's Van Halen-type metalness, but really cool and unique.

I mention "magic/inventiveness/musical dexterity" because it seems to be a shift toward explicitness, or readability, or simplicity or something. Maybe a Readers Digest quality? I'm not sure if the shift was premeditated, but I doubt it was.

I'm with Geir. I can't think of a "this is the successful" record by a band I really like where that record was actually horrible. Average (either because of major label tampering or poor production or whatever reason) sure, but actually downright horrible? Nothing springs to mind.

I more or less agre with the Fishbone thing (don't know TRB well enough to say) but I do think that there's a bit of exaggeration here - all post T&S fishbone records have had a few redeeming tracks, often many.

I guess all I really agree with is that Truth and Soul is their best lp.

I'm surprised you guys don't have any similar experiences.

To clarify, I'll say that the above-mentioned albums alienate me to a degree that's difficult for me to comprehend. I think that I stick by artists that release work I value, more than most people I know. These are exceptions.

That's why I make the post, that's why I list these.

I can think of many breakthrough records that have had this affect on numerous fans, but that I enjoy. Jawbreaker's "Dear You," for example. Also, wasn't Television's "Adventure" heavily promoted, to no avail? That one lacks some magic, but clearly advances some ideas/approaches/techniques/just good tunes that are apparent after a few listens.

I think there are two problems with your initial post. One is that horrible for me is a pretty high threshold (it's not just "this is not a good record", it's more of a "this is a record it PAINS me to hear".) The other is that while there are definitely some awful records where bands completely abandoned everything I've liked about them and then I never listened to their new records, but most of those records ARE not the bands "commericial breakthroughs" (unless you are really straining--which you must be by giving Adventure as an example.) True awfulness tends to take a lot of work, it's not something most bands discover suddenly.

I kinda know what you're getting at, Usual Channels. For example, I don't think The Soft Bulletin is horrible by any means, but its adulation does puzzle me. I think earlier Flaming Lips records are far superior. Soft Bulletin seems to be the "official" coronation of Wayne Coyne as genius, auteur, etc. Yet I was convinced of his talents years prior.

"Horrible" was the wrong choice of words--you're right.

Maybe I should have set up the discussion by talking about bands that are overwhelmingly known for material that you do not care for--material that you could not identify with because it's either utterly unappealing to you (Fishbone), or because it's unappealing and also saddled with ideas or images that you find repulsive/distasteful (Rollins Band).

Part of the idea for my initial post was that the popular impression of artists like these, and the concensus frame of reference for their work, keeps me from wishing to discuss said artists with almost anyone.

The Bangles' Different Light. Seriously: go check out the two preceding records, All Over The Place and the Faulty Products EP. What the hell happened?

I remember being absolutely befuddled by Filter's second album. Not that Filter was ever a "great" band or anything, but "Short Bus" was passable sub-NIN industrial pop. When "Title of Record" came out, though, it was definitely one of those "wtf?" moments.

I actually got into Rollins Band because of EoS; I was in high school and for whatever reason that album really resonated with me at the time. Then I got into the older stuff (which is indeed better) - Turned On is probably my favorite Rollins record.

re the subject of this thread - I know there's got to be some examples but I can't think of any off the top of my head. (In fact, the Rollins Band album after EoS would fit - the one with "Liar" - that one was an even bigger breakout and it really put me off.)

TS PIL's 1st Edition/Metal Box/Flowers Of Romance Vs Album/9

I think the late 80's were just a bad time for commerical rock music in general. The record companies had the money to throw at whatever was the next big thing. A lot of weird records got made with bad late 80's production.

(waiting to get yelled at)

I'm with Geir. I can't think of a "this is the successful" record by a band I really like where that record was actually horrible.

I can. Several cases. None of them are breakthrough albums though, they are usually late career ones.

I mean, Santana, anyone?

mike a otm.

For me it was the Kinks stadium rock breakout.

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Romanthony - R. Hide In Plain Site

how did that record happen? he was the best garage producer. how did his spirit die?

The Clientele were great until their newest album.

And now you can't escape them!

lolz

U2 - All That You Can't Leave Behind

for me, U2 did a couple of really nice, different, experimental (for U2 at least) albums in the '90s, i love Zooropa and i think Pop has a bunch of gems on it as well. then they did the above album in what, 2000 i think, and it was awful. and very, very commercially successful, their re-breakthrough i suppose.

For me it was the Kinks stadium rock breakout.

I agree those are bad albums, but The Kinks' breakthrough happened before that. Their artistic golden age was also their commercial golden age in the UK.

Strawberry Jam.

I suppose you could say that Sung Tongs was their breakthrough, but Strawberry Jam is the one that feels like it marks their arrival in Pop/Rock A-Z. And it is awful, even Feels felt like a progression and was wonderful about 85% of the time.

As for U2, "Pop" was horrible, while ATYCLB was their best ever album. Almost as good as Britpop!

I so have nothing in common with your taste in music.

Like, on any level.

that robyn record

Soul Asylum springs to mind. I never cared for the Grave Dancers Union album but I dug everything up until then. Although listening to it now, it's not as bad as I remember it.

I've never really dug Liz Phair, but it seems to me that a legion of her fans loathed her big "commercial" album a couple of years ago...

...despite the fact that it wasn't exactly a radical departure (or even a minor departure) from anything she'd done previously.

1991 fucking killed me. Nirvana, Metallica, Ministry, and Voivod all made albums that were hugely disappointing to my 18 year old self. Of course, the Voivod album didn't win them any new fans, but the other three really broke out in popularity, and watered down in style.

xp re: liz phair -- is that true? i mean, the hit song was kind of different, no? even though i liked that song, don't get me wrong.

should i bother listening to that album in full?

But LP's best selling album is in fact "Whip Smart".

which is an aMAZING album, and VERY poppy in its own way

(waiting to get yelled at)

Not in this case, I think that's a perfectly apt description!

hence "Rise", which I never could stand...(it all became perfectly clear when I discovered that Steve Vai played on it)...

What's the Story Morning Glory vs. Definately Maybe
Different Class vs. His 'n' Hers
Loaded vs. VU and Nico
Hunky Dory vs. Ziggy Stardust...

I guess there's about a million of them (ps I don't think any of these albums are 'horrible').

Most of those could be described as:

Album that got issued and sold well over time, followed up by album that sold (to the same people) quickly, which then brought it to the attention of other people, who then bought it also.

Different Class "horrible?" Really?

I vote for All Shook Down, except that was more of a wannabe commercial breakthrough.

Also Chumbawamba's Tubthumper.

Interesting point, Mark G. Makes sense, really.

...and yeah--definitely Tubthumper!

Classic TV moment was replayed over christmas:

When "Tub" was on TOTP, it got presented as it was.

When they returned for the Christmas special, the audience had by now learned the dance that everyone was doing without Chumbas. So, the Chums got to do the song while everyone got knocked...Down! and then got Up! again, and at that point the Wamba's realised actually, they'd just made a more modern version of the Birdie song!

(Still, I like it anyway)

chumbawamba always sucked though.

"Shhh" is a great record, sez me.

Revolution by Chumbawamba is fucking great. Although apart from that, errr I do like a few songs off Anarchy I suppose.

Not sure if this fits but I loved Mercury Rev's Yerself Is Steam and Boces and was upset when Deserter's Songs came out - I suddenly heard it on student radio in a timeslot where I knew something was up that they were playing it (ie it wasn't on a specialist show). I felt nothing for it and still regard it as a different band that should have had the grace to change their name.

Also didn't Hunky Dory come out before Ziggy Stardust???

Yeah, Ziggy was the 'breakthrough' of the two. I guess for most of those the artist was already well known enough but the second one brought a commercial zentith.

I explictedly put in my post that I didn't think any of them were horrible. I love Different Class, but not as much as His 'n' Hers.

Chumbawamba is a good answer! Anarchy was such a great pop record, whereas had Tubthumper only had one good song, "Tubthumping". Plus they watered down their politics too, even though the mixture of radical anarchist views with pop sensibilities was the thing that made them interesting in the first place.

Deserter's Songs is a good answer too...

One could argue this for Modest Mouse's 'Good News for People Who Love Bad News,' though I don't see it as a drastic dip in quality, really. And I think the newest is an improvement, anyway.

System of a Down: "System of a Down" vs. "Toxicity"

And I think the newest is an improvement, anyway.

Surely an improvement over "Good News..." in sales and mainstream popularity.

Well, Moon and Anatartica is leagues better than either, but that's the only Modest Mouse I can tolerate.

Wasn't Exile actually the only Liz to go gold? And what did Nirvana do wrong with Nevermind? Get a good drummer? Write better songs?

OK, Whip Smart also went gold, as did "Why Can't I" as a download.