Proposed: Re-Issues Should Never Mess With the Original Track Listing

Bonus tracks in the middle of XTC reissue tracklistings: big dud.

Actually the XTC reissues are the ones that got it right. It was the first CD versions that didn't.

I never understood the point about moving "In Your Eyes" to the end of the remastered "So" though. The rest of the Peter Gabriel remasters they didn't mess with, but for some weird reason they chose to change "So"'s tracklisting.

They fiddled around with the tracklist for Benefit when it was reissued but I guess the original UK LP didn't have "Teacher" on it so the tracklist was "restored?"

Fantasy's longtime placement of outtakes in the middle of original track orders to thread here for damn sure.

also the original U.S. CD version of X-Ray Spex's Germfree Adolescents

There were a couple of Fall reissues that irritatingly put singles at the beginning of the CD. But they were good singles so I didn't mind it too much. Sometimes Blood & Fire and Pressure Sounds habit of putting the deejay or dub versions after the original song bugs the crap out of me (see Lambs Bread International) but other times it works really well to be able to compare the two so I guess that just depends.

Replacing tracks with alternate versions is very bad. Rearranging tracks doesn't matter to me anymore since I fix it when I rip it and move bonus tracks to a separate folder.

Why is that always bad? I can think of many instances where a 12" mix is far superior to the original version. Ideally I'd like to have both, I guess.

I think if they want to put bonus tracks, put them on a seperate disc. What annoys even moreso than the re-release bonus tracks are "Circuit City/ Best Buy 'Exclusive' Tracks" that get tacked onto new releases...

Ideally I'd like to have both, I guess.

That's exactly right - replacing is bad, supplementing is excellent. And with all the double disc reissues there's no reason not to. I, for one, won't bother with a reissue unless there's something new on it - i.e. I passed on the Replacements reissues.

"Circuit City/ Best Buy 'Exclusive' Tracks"

Since I rarely go to those stores I must be missing out, can you give us some examples?

Prodigy's Return of the Mac has a whole bunch of instrumentals tacked onto the end of the album if you buy it from Circuit City.

Sometimes I love dub versions following vocal tracks, but Blood & Fire reissues are always my first exposure to that type of material. If I'd originally heard it otherwise, I might think differently.

The initial Rough Trade re-release of If I Die, I Die.. by the Virgin Prunes swapped out the original version of "Baby Turns Blues" in favor of a truly appalling "dance mix". Vile.

That all said, it's since been re-released twice, and said problem has been rectified.

The initial Rough Trade re-release of If I Die, I Die.. by the Virgin Prunes swapped out the original version of "Baby Turns Blues" in favor of a truly appalling "dance mix". Vile.

That's right and it wasn't noted on the CD at all! It has been rectified, as a matter of fact.

Money Jungle C/D?

i'm pretty sure i have the reissued "africa brass" and i don't see how re-arranging the tracks would make it any more awesome.

as long as they're not removing shit, it's ok

i'm not familiar with this "kind of blue" pitch shifting crap... somebody should do a "dirty secrets of jazz cd remasters" book or something...

Winston, I think that the unusual charts for the large-ish band behind the quartet on "Africa" kicks off the album way differently than the comparatively par-for-the-course "Greensleeves."

I've listened to the 2CD remaster a million times, always in order, and usually just disc 1, to be honest. So, you end up hearing the following on disc 1:

1. Greensleeves
2. Song Of The Underground Railroad
3. Greensleeves - (alternate take)
4. Damned Don't Cry, The
5. Africa - (first version)

Compare that to the original Africa/Brass, in its entirety:

1. Africa
2. Greensleeves
3. Blues Minor

See what I'm getting at?

Coltrane's Africa/Brass re-issue beginning with "Greensleeves" instead of "Africa."

Which is this? I got the Impulse! Albums Vol 1 box set, and "Africa" is track #1.

I just heard Africa/Brass in its original track order, and it is an utterly different experience.

Oh well. Just rearrange it if it bothers you.

Further, how about Miles Davis' "Kind of Blue" having it's friggin' pitch corrected? I'm sorry, but isn't the pitch that millions of fans experienced and loved for years, in perhaps a profound way, the "correct" one???

Not as easy as rearranging a playlist, granted, but you can change the pitch to the original one if you have a WAV/AIFF editor. There must be one that's free for demo purposes. Pain in the ass, but oh well.

HMMMMMM???

http://www.kamado.com/discus/messages/2/10585.jpg

I think this is about what one is first exposed to when buying a record that's got some history to it.

Sure, duh, the track order can be rearranged on one's iPod. But, not feeling like I had to research the original track listing of every Coltrane CD I own, it never occurred to me that the entire running order of this one was inside out and turned around. Which is just stupid.

...I'm saying that I would have never considered that "Africa/Brass" was such a different animal than the 2-disc version if it weren't for the fact that I just got the box set which includes it in its originally-issued form.

And that they could have arranged the two disc re-issue in a way that didn't do violence to the release's original format.

"the original U.S. CD version of X-Ray Spex's Germfree Adolescents"

YES. What were they thinking?

i'm pretty sure i started with the pitch-corrected kind of blue and it was still profound

Is that sausage............wrapped in bacon?

Was it pitch-corrected because the original tape had been sped up or slowed down, or was the piano tuned to some in-between key?

i take issue with the complaint about the XTC issues - i honestly don't see much difference between putting the bonus tracks in between the two album sides and putting them at the end. you can't complain "oh it breaks the flow" because CDs play straight through whereas albums (and cassettes) had to be flipped. If it's that much of a problem, you should be clamoring for a one minute of silence track in between sides.

But changing the track order, substituting different versions of songs, or pitch shifting should be a no-no.

Usual Channels, I kinda get what you're saying, but if what you got was meant to be anything MORE than an intact reissue no frills no bonus tracks thing, then you have to double-check a music guide if original track order is that important to you...

...especially with music originally released in the 50s or 60s, which had initial reissues with wildly varying track lists across various countries, in ANY genre. You name it.

sorry, initial releases

Never mind: I found the Miles Davis Shreds video on youtube, right next to the Eddie Van Halen one.

As for the orignal XTC CDs, I liked having the bonus tracks in the middle splitting "Sides A and B"! XTC albums always had killer ending songs, and I never had to scramble to stop the CD after the final song aka "the afterglow" because Wrinkly Kooky B-side #1 was about to start.

OK, here's a concise discussion of the Kind of Blue thing http://glenngould.org/f_minor/msg02903.html

All things Kind of Blue are also discussed in wonderful detail in Ashley Kahn's book about the album.

Oh yeah, I've gotta read that, and the Coltrane book too.

I just picked up Kahn's book about Impulse! Records. It looks great.

Perhaps someday it will be reprinted, with the chapters rearranged, making it perfect for discussion on this thread.

Re: Kind Of Blue. If you guys want to recreate the original pitch, then load Side A into a WAV/AIFF editor, ADD a half tone (NOT preserving time, therefore making it slightly shorter) to the pitch correction, apply, then listen.

robyn hitchcock's i often dream of trains was most definitely improved by the placement of cd bonus tracks smack in the middle of the running order, including "my favourite buildings," "bones in the ground" and "i used to say i love you." unfortunately yep roc recently re-reissued the cd, restoring the original vinyl sequencing and moving the bonus tracks to the end. i assume this was robyn's preference, but i protest it nonetheless.

i honestly don't see much difference between putting the bonus tracks in between the two album sides and putting them at the end. you can't complain "oh it breaks the flow" because CDs play straight through whereas albums (and cassettes) had to be flipped.

In the case of XTC, the problem is that most of those b-sides aren't any good. They drag down the albums considerably, and it is much easier to play the entire album, as originally intended, and stop before those inferior bonus tracks start playing.

RONG

Although I do agree that they should not have been wedged into the middle of the albums. And Red Brick Dream, Blue Overall and (ironically) The Somnambulist sent me to sleep regularly.

(using past tense because I cut out all the B sides and reburned the lot several years ago)

I have to disagree with both Geir and Autumn.

If CDs reissuing albums from the vinyl era are done, I think bonus tracks in the middle is the way to go (if it has to fit on one cd). I like to hear the B-sides, but I want the last song of the album to be the last song of the CD too. And again, since these albums were originally sequenced to be two-halves by format limit, the bonus tracks don't really break any continuity -- at least anymore than bonus tracks at the end.

Splitting hairs here, admittedly.. especially since anyone can rearrange an album to his/her desire. One of PiL's goals with Metal box finally realised.

I guess, but the artist never intended a C side to be rammed between A and B.

Yes, the Robyn Hitchcock catalog is now MORE confusing than ever. Songs added, deleted, orders disrupted, complete outtake albums deleted (You and Oblivion and Inivisible Hitchcock) and added (These Margaret Thatcher Ate My Baby...collections)...

Autumn, XTC nor Geffen (at the time) didn't have to put the B-sides on the CDs at all if they felt that strongly about preserving their intention. I'm glad they did put them on there. Maybe others aren't.

Oh look I'm not that fussed to be honest, but my preference would have been for them to be at the end, that's all.

I don't know how much say XTC had in any of this stuff anyway. And Geffen was the US distribution arm for Virgin.