Best track on Trout Mask Replica

Our Alice's middle name is Ella.

Nice. You know of the Beefheart track "Alice In Blunderland" too?

Yeah, but it was more the b-side of "Stingray" by the Shadows, "Alice in Sunderland"

Dali's Car.

Hmmmmm, interesting!

Hoi, hoi!

My vote goes to "Steal Softly Thru Snow"

"Ant Man Bee" for that wonderfully fucked-up horn solo and for the line "Man's lived a million years and still he kills".

Oh wait, that's from "Steal Softly Thru Snow".

So many great tracks, but I picked "Moonlight On Vermont"

I was gonna pick Moonlight on Vermont. I dont know if I can anymore

"The Blimp"

"My Human Gets Me Blues" has the all-around unmatched density and "Sugar and Spikes" is even melodic; but my heart belongs to "Ella Guru" - the track that made me a fan and the first one I could bear to give a second listen.

"Dachau Blues". "Neon Meate Dream Of A Octafish" in second.

"Veteran's Day Poppy", I think. I love "Ella Guru" though.

"Ella Guru."

My daughter's first name is Ella. It's a good name.

moonlight on vermont!

Automatic thread bump. This poll is closing tomorrow.

Sweet Sweet Sweet Bulbs.

Another for Veteran's Day Poppy before the poll closes.

Automatic thread bump. This poll's results are now in.

This is one of the few polls where I had no clue as to which song was gonna win.

I missed this one. I would have voted for the first track, "The Dust Blows Forward 'N The Dust Blows Back." I love this album more as the years go by.

Grabt album but I wouldn't have a clue which track is which.

And, er, I'm surprised anyone else can remember. Did you all listen for your favourite track so you could find out its name?

i could've voted for about 15 tracks, so i didn't vote.

(xpost) Sorry, what do you mean?

"Moonlight" and "Ella" are two of the "poppier" (ha) songs on the album, so not so surprising they came out on top

They are not all the same!

I could sing you all the tracks if you mentioned the title, apart from some of the instrumentals (c'mon, that'd be a tuff gig!)

I haven't heard it for a while though (mislaid my CD somewhere)

Oh, yeah, that's a good point.

"Ella" is the closest this album gets to a chorus.

The only thing about "Ella Guru" is the talking over bit. Which is fine on the album, but I'd like it without, for compiling externally.

I do have the instumental backing track, so one day I'll re-edit it.

I didn't vote. Probably would have gone with Sugar N Spikes because it deserves at least one vote.

It does. It's another of the pop songs!

xp - you mean the whole "She's young too!..." rant?

Nooh, the "that's right, fast and"...

Which is great of course, but it covers over some nifty guitar bits.

Who knows, if I made one, I might well decide I miss it.

"I do have the instumental backing track...."

A tedious Beefheart-obsessed pedant writes:

S'not an instrumental backing track, it's ("... a bush recording - we're out recording a bush!") an entirely different recording which resulted from a largely abortive attempt by Zappa & his sound engineer Richard Kunc to record the album at the house in Ensanada Drive where The Magic Band had spent the previous 8 months writing and rehearsing it, using the same portable equipment that they'd recently been using to record Larry "Wild Man Fischer"
The only bits of those recordings that actually made the final album iirc were "Hair Pie Bake 1" and some of the spoken bits ("The Dust Blows Forward And The Dust Blows Back" "Orange Claw Hammer", "China Pig" and "The Blimp" were recorded at the house, but not by Zappa / Richard Kunc and not afaik using the same equipment).

ah, so it wouldn't work right, right?

Fuuuuuuck I forgot to vote. If I did I would have gone for "My Human Gets Me Blues"

Also, I recently realized the genius of "Veteran's Day Poppy"

I don't think this poll was up for long enough - my fault!

how in the hell did Frownland only get 1 vote

DACHAU BLOOOZZ!!

Why do I not own this album

quite a landslide for Moonlight on Vermont. Can't even remember how that one goes. I like the one with the windscreen wiper drums.

... give me that old time religion.

I like the one with the windscreen wiper drums.

Not on this album.

oh no? okay then it's the crazy drums on one of the hair pie tracks.

I'm glad to see that the most worthy options all got at least one vote. "When Big Joan Sets Up" is the one I find myself returning to the most these days.

"I guess you don't get your drummer, then?"

whats the one on side 3 with the sick bassline

Generous chap!

by all accounts he was extremely generous to other musicians

anyway so best track - at least one of the hair pies is instrumental i think? that one

Good quote from Beefheart, "I'm not trying to put my name beside Ornette Coleman, because you can't put your name beside Ornette Coleman."

An ungenerous listener might call the Captain's sax playing "minstrelsy" in relation to jazz, though.

call me generous because that doesn't bother me so much. maybe it should

Think we might need to tighten up our definition of 'minstrelsy' just a smidge

yah no shit

it's not a coincidence that a huge number of white rock vocalists sang or sing the way they do and it's not something without historical precedent. listen to the aerosmith's "honkin' on bobo" and tell me it's a) racially unproblematic and b) totally different from what beefheart was doing (yes he did more interesting things with it, that's not the point)

this is pretty basic history-of-rock stuff, it doesn't mean you have to burn your records but denial shouldn't be an option either

sir there's nothing you can tell me about honkin on bobo that I don't already know

the minstrel show has plenty of influence through a lot of (if not all) popular music, not only that made by white people, and not in any way confined to blues/rock singers

of course. but there are specific ways certain tropes surface in white rock (broadly speaking) that are sort of acknowledged and handwaved away at the same time

I'd wager that most people on this board are well aware that the entire concept of rock and roll was pretty much swiped wholesale from underacknowledged Black musicians. That fact alone doesn't exactly clear the way for referring to music you dislike as 'minstrelsy' because it reminds you of the work of Black artists.

yeah it's not that anyone doesn't acknowledge all that, left, i'm not discounting it at all - just, to quote, you rhetorical style is often "the closest weapon at hand"

I mean, there are certainly plenty of problematic aspects to white electric blues (the Blueshammer problem, you might call it) but I would source them to racist interpretations of 1930s delta blues, rather than to the minstrel show. This is a world where actual minstrel show songs or "c**n songs" (Hello! Ma Baby, Bill Bailey, Mighty Lak a Rose, Swanee) are still remembered in the lineage of the Great American Songbook.

listen to the aerosmith's "honkin' on bobo"

This thread has become one to watch, investing early could pay big dividends

lol, got to that part of Left's post and was like 'that's a hard no'

Listening to Aerosmith's "Honkin' on Bobo" seems to have had a trauamtic effect, so I'll pass.

When I listened to it I wound up honking all over my bobo, took me an hour to clean up

Once you honk you just can't stonk.

(pls refer to educational video about "The Stonk" on youtube if you don't understand this)

Surprised to see 0 votes for "my human gets me blues."

it's not a coincidence that a huge number of white rock vocalists sang or sing the way they do and it's not something without historical precedent. listen to the aerosmith's "honkin' on bobo" and tell me it's a) racially unproblematic and b) totally different from what beefheart was doing (yes he did more interesting things with it, that's not the point)

― Profile I Want to Edit My Profile... Change Display Name: (Left), Wednesday, 7 April 2021 bookmarkflaglink

This how the capitalist bosses talk about Beefheart?

what

The album title was suggested by Steven Tyler, who heard the phrase somewhere and the band found it funny.[4]

huh

https://www.urbandictionary.com/define.php?term=HONKIN%27%20ON%20BOBO

(xp) Trout Mask Replica?

https://worldscinema.org/wp-content/uploads/2018/12/The-Bobo-19672-e1544456799524.png

I don't care if you're black, white, blue

this album would be great if it was instrumental but the captain's beat/bluesman minstrelsy shtick is insufferable and sinks the whole project

You should check this out:
https://cuneiformrecords.bandcamp.com/album/pork-chop-blue-around-the-rind

This singer/arranger David Minnick has been mentioned a few times on ILM for an a cappella rendition he recorded of the Cardiacs album Sing to God. Now he's done the same with Trout Mask Replica and it's kind of bewildering. Don't know where long-gone poster Left would situate this arrangement/video on the axis of minstrelsy.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tbsEYo9teTc

Cant believe I was the only person to vote for "Steal Softly Thru Snow".

what the fuck is that guy even up to

This karaoke version of "My Human Gets Me Blues" is quite something.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kGq3zWn8TKY

No one voted for it but the drum solo to Sugar 'N Spikes is incredible. This is my favourite track on the album

Is it common knowledge that the guitar in "Moonlight on Vermont" seems to be quoting "Jesus loves me, yes I know, 'cause the Bible tells me so?" Either way, I never knew.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RRiqAyRHP_o

Not that I've seen.

Its a shame that her insight is delivered like that.

Is there any video for a song where she dislikes it? (Doesn't sound like she could actively hate something)

It's the sort of thing Beefheart might have whistled and asked one of the guitarists to play. I think there's also a track that references something from "Sketches of Spain".

It's literally quoting "Gimme That Old Time Religion" but it's more impressive that it quotes Steve Reich's "Come Out" just a year or two after it was released.

I would not expect that particular youtuber to be familiar with the latter tbh.

Saw this video, which was an analysis of Frownland. It gets at the complexity in musical terms but by the end it was dull to listen to and I'll keep thinking its atonal thanks.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-FhhB9teHqU

I feel the opposite! And that video was actually key for me in realizing that a big part of what I like about these songs is in the fact that the individual parts are not atonal.

I hope some of these discoveries will lead to good writing on Beefheart. But its hard to listen to, it really goes on for too long.

The same guy has interviewed three members of the magic band btw..

the Trout Mask sessions were a real revelation for me, showing both how much this music was neither improvised nor totally random, and how much better it sounded minus the Frank Zappa production

What's wrong with the Frank Zappa production?

Well Samuel says its a muddy (in the mix) but I hear the lines enough. But I feel that's how the Don wanted it.

Lick my Decals is where you can hear a contrast.

That disc off Grow Fins is fantastic

(xp) I think it's the opposite, Decals is muddy, Beefheart couldn't produce a record to save his life - which he further proves on The Spotlight Kid. Zappa just put in place basic simple recording set up whereby the instruments are well separated and you can hear all of them clearly, pressed record and let them play ... and promptly fell asleep at the mixing desk according to Beefheart.

Troutmask is a lot of things but I don't think it's muddy

I don't agree with Samuel btw..I think Lick my Decals is almost as good as Trout Mask as well.

Absolutely. The addition of the marimba is great but I miss the twin guitars, which is one of the best things about TMR, and the drums are not recorded well at all.